Liemberg

Since I don't know what the course lay-out is nowadays, I'm not sure. It used to be that you did the course, got the rating, made five jumps with licensed skydivers and were let loose at the general public. Expecting the unexpected however, comes from real live confrontations with the unexpected... And then (once 'tandem-zen'

Hence the fifty push ups... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Since Rob appears to be to lazy , I'll make the poll a few people asked for in the tandemmasters handcam thread. Please DO remember that as a species we skydivers have a tendency to make it more difficult for our heirs to get a rating.

Explanation is in the number of 750; since the previous post gave a clear number of at least a thousand, you just haven't reached Tandem-Zen yet... Keep at it, little grashopper, you are almost there!

Gary, Our (the Dutch) BSR - annex: 'rules for parachute-choice' START with: "in par 501 of the BSR it says that any jumper that wants to jump with another parachute and changes the 'experience-category' must meet certain demands. Demands are as follows..." Well, they could have worded that better (in Dutch it is as horrible as in English, language-wise) but what is ment is 'grandfathering the situation as is' and 'demands only come in play, when you are downsizing'. Someone gaining a few pounds but jumping the canopy he made 50 jumps with last year - or replacing it with something from the same category - wouldn't be bothered. Then again, they didn't make it waiverable at the discretion of DZO / S & TA ... Since this (primarily) seems to be a discussion about the situation in the USA... Bill always speaks softly - I think USPA ought to give him the big stick he's asking for. I'm sure he'll remain soft-spoken...

Making friends and influencing people again, Tim?

"Their contribution is so invaluable that it is hard to put a monetary figure to it - so usually I try to avoid that..." About $36,- per jump (either tandem or tandemcamera - but there's lots more tandem...) Figure doesn't mean much to you I guess cause here it is completely different what that dollar could buy you - less miles on the car but better health insurance, to name just one. Haven't negotiated the handcamfee yet, but I'll work something out. Lets say that they allways complain and nevertheless keep coming - I must be doing something right...

Keep dreaming... (Now if it were your own setup with camcorder, bulletcam, video-editing computer etcetera it would be a different matter but even then... Anybody making $50 on a camerajump, get all the toys from the DZ AND the jump for free? I think not...) When I'm advertising it (as I will be shortly) I'm not going to cope with tandemmasters that refuse to do it. You don't jump with this easy set-up that has no safety issues at all?*) Then, in all likelihood, you don't jump tandem for me... The videographers role will not be eliminated but I'm afraid it will be reduced... *) Starting the hookup one-and-a-halve minute earlier isn't a safety issue, it's an inconvenience... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Wasn't neccesary to extend the plugs. Cable of the camera was long enough to go through the sleeve of my arm, over the passengers shoulder onto two plugs sticking out of the pouch (a sort of ski bag) Cam Eye II doesn't work that well - bummer. (shows record / pause / stop, doesn't permit starting with its remote-button, that could be a PC105E thing though) You start taping by pushing the button on the small screen of the sony. When you close that screen the button is 'inside' so it keeps taping. Then you close AND LOCK the ski-bag. Yes - you throw away the first five minutes of the film, but who is counting when you can re-use the tape? Under canopy you twist the camera a quarter turn for a more natural image (if you don't do this it is either sideways in freefall or under canopy) We are gonna call it 'budget video'. You lose some quality but the math is what it is - one slot less in the plane. You sell more video since you offer it at less than half price from a normal video. Then again we DO have a dedicated computer editor - sixteen years old, wanting to skydive but seriously lacking funds - otherwise it would be to much of a hassle. (For me at last, there are limits to multitasking

You more resolute or he better packer? "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

I do, I do - but at least we have the same currency - theirs is 1,58 times ours and thats when I grab a calculator. And I didn't mention feet and pounds and stones and inches and yards... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Wow! O well, they do live on an island, don't they?

Because all these type programs are already rather intensive and often 'conservative' when it comes to canopy control. When training SL students (f.i.) most of us will setle for 'Have the student stay at or near the windline, arive over the target 1000-750ft, fly with the wind shortly, turn against the wind, from 250ft on let the canopy fly into 'an unobstructed lane', have feet and knees together and flare at your own discretion'... This produces students that either land near the target from jump five on while others cannot come within 50 meters. So be it: some will stand up every landing, some will PLF dozens of jumps. Provided the DZ is big enough and there are no traffic issues this is enough for the limitted goals set. (I'm perfectly happy when everybody walks away on their own feet at the end of the day; the rest is bonus...that bonus maybe that I or someone else of the staff is at the landing area to produce 'constructive criticism' - if not, because we are busy with tandems or other students, it is learning by doing...) The phenomenon might be labelled 'the economics of teaching' where you set your goals realisticly and only look at 'these students, here, now, today'. Since we know about retention rate, we prefer not to say something or learn them something that would come in handy when they are downsizing 30 jumps from now, if that something is complicating matters during 'survival one-on-one' We'll take it from there if they are still with us... It is my firm believe that the TLO's of AFF training when it comes to canopy skills are either not met or only met rudimentary. No 'fault' of the instructor, just 'mice trying to swallow an elephants chunk'... Just remember that there you combine what will happen with your body in freefall, altitude awareness in freefall, emergencies at or after deployment AND getting to the ground in one piece after you find yourself alone under a good canopy. Now if you work with a radio and the student listens to you, you'll be able to get away with a lot - but that doesn't mean the student understands WHY he has to 'pull left', 'pull right', 'put arms all the way up' and 'FLARE!'... Visiting 'low-time'-jumpers untill now always enforced that believe; from my observation an AFF trained '20 jump wonder' cant fly his canopy, a SL trained '20 jump wonder' can, more or less... Just my $0,02... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

AFAIK He's the only one that don't need a parachute to "walk over water" - any swooper out there who can beat that?

You are so wrong there, it is almost funny. Classifying everybody into the clueless category (until they prove otherwise) is what I do all the time when I allow people to jump at my DZ. An example? Without at least an A-license EVERYBODY goes to the Student landing area (= away from the public / 500 meters walk back to the hangar), without a B-license visiting jumpers are 'kindly requested' to land there until we evaluated their canopy skills. And yes, when push comes to shove, I have final saying on who is to land in the student area and who is allowed near the hangar. At my place there's a guy who is approaching 200 jumps, has a 1:1,1 loaded rectangular ZP and is - for the time being - 'banned' from landing near the hangar, he MUST land in the student field... If landing a canopy had to do with debating skills I would not have a problem to recognize the likes of you as adult citizens who are entitled to their opinion. However, since I'm the one that calls the ambulance, talks to the media and phones the next of kin I reserve the right to be judgmental towards every new face that walks in my door. A 'graylist' sounds like a complicated way to create more 'red tape' than what I'm already plagued with, not a solution to a real world problem. Taking away some of your "constitutional rights" is a lot simpler. Now you just go and blame others that it has come this far, then show somebody in charge that you'll be fine under 'one level smaller than BSR allows'... You may even pick your own evaluator. If Bill doesn't want to sign, ask Brian... (Better yet, ask the instructors at your own DZ; they are used to signing for other peoples proficiency) This would however involve actual parachute jumps where you showed your skill with a parachute that falls within the (proposed) BSR rules. Once you have the coveted signature, you move on to the next level... But alas, your ability to quote philosophers wont be of much help there... edit: Spelling! & still not sure...

I'm coersing them to do tandems anyway. thank god most of em can be bribed into it. Otherwise I had to do it all on my own. That would suck. "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

My 'trigger' is a button on my Sony PC6 that says 'photo'. Basically you replay what you have on Mini-DV tape and push it when your favorite scene comes along...Photo is written to a memory stick and uploadable to your computer as a JPG (through USB connection) Disadvantage - it gives you a 640x480 image - good enough to impress your friends behind a monitor, lousy when you want a print larger than 9x13cm... Still interested? PM me for URL on where to get a bulletcam that works with any AV-in camera (they take mastercard and ship worldwide...) edit: My old one was a PC-6 This is all made with PC105E. If you have a sony with a memory-stick and USB out + DV-out + AV-in this should work the way I described. "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Why not? The people from 'Monty Python' did it with soccer.

You sure about that? some pics from a handcam (edited to remove video link that didn't work, I'm working on it and you can approach it through my homepage and polish up on your dutch - click 'video's' and click the clickies you find untill a mediaplayer video starts, don't forget to scroll down) Though I have a small "bulletcam"-setup it IS a distraction. However, with my setup, the distraction is in the briefing (camera is in a pouch on passengers belly) and during hook-up in the plane (connecting the camera, starting to film) - take a bit more time in the beginning and there will be no problem. In freefall-under-drogue filming is easy, on exit you forget the camera. I would not want a Mini-DV cam on a glove - just picture slammer +5G opening and that thing pivoting on your hand... you look up at a couple of broken suspension lines and have just seriously sprained the pulse of your left-hand. Luckily the RSL saves you and now you start to wonder if you will be able to flare the hell out of this beast all by yourself, with your left hand hurting like hell - No thanks... But even with my toy, I would say 100 and "talented in the realm of multitasking" "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Maybe Rob wants to learn more about geometric algebra? "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Maybe he hears sensless noise because some people are making...uh.... ??? It is a SAFETY & TRAINING issue. That is why we TEACH and TRAIN people from jump number one on to LOOK at the reserve-ripcord when grabbing it, it may be somewhere else than where you would expect it, especially when a SUSPENSION LINE GOT STUCK ON A FLAP OF YOUR MAIN CONTAINER, which IMHO is the real issue here. Then again, you might want to re-check the title of the thread. (In case you dont know - if you don't look, grabbing the large ring in stead of the ripcord can happen with almost any rig; having a suspension-line caught by a flaps stiffener plate takes a bit more effort... and PLEEEEZZZ don't come back with a-pud-in-stead-of-metal-handle-ripcord...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

OK, fair enough - I wouldn't want to damage my rig either. However, I can imagine that such considerations don't hold for the manufacturers. I would think that the forces the deploying parachute puts on the snagged suspension line are more than just the weight of the rig, so although it looks like your friend did the same with that vector, it IS different from what was shown in the 'reconstruction picture' of that omega. Right now I'm looking with some scepsis to any rig (and there are a lot of them) with a 'bullet proof' pin protection built into the top flap. Wouldn't be the first time that 'design improvement' in one area created unforeseen problems in another area... Since a lot of the manufacturers are 'reading over our shoulders': Can you all look into this guys? Please?... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

(after a quick glance of the thread) That is another issue than what is discussed here. Doing 'gymnastics' after deployment may be interesting, but 'all bets are off...' What is discussed here is the assertion of an investigating commitee in Germany who in effect concluded that during a stable deployment loose suspension lines of a main canopy can wrap themselves around a closing flap, not only on an omega, but on a lot of rigs on the market today. I think they are wrong in that conclusion and I urge them to come up with evidence that supports what they are saying. Let's remember that so far people have been able to reconstruct what probably happened with the omega (i.e. lifting a guy and his rig from the ground with a suspension line around a flap) and no one has shown this to be possible with any other rig. Plain and simple: if you think you can repeat that trick with other rigs on the market (without staples and/ot superglue) .... SHOW US! "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

After seeing the pictures, following the links and reading the stories (my German is adequate), I am left with a few questions. 1. Where were the lines of the main, prior to the opening - bottom of container or against the reserve? (probably a 'no-brainer', but I want to make certain...) 2. Other than bluntly claiming that this could happen with any other container, did the investigators try to reproduce this with one or more of those other brands? That should be easy to do and from what I gather here, several people on the forum are already trying this and so far no one is successful. I'd imagine that you just take a long enough piece of suspension-line, loop it once around the flap where you suspect this could happen - like in the reconstruction picture - and see if you can catch a flap and lift the jumper from the ground (though I am not sure here - in the picture of the reconstruction is the jumper we see there suspended from the ground or not?) In general, using rubber bands that actually hold the stows is safer than bands that are so wide that the stows fall out when you lift the bag out of the container. But even then, they shouldn't get caught as easily as they appear to do with an omega. (Three similar incidents is a lot IMO...) Never seen this thing before (line caught by a stiffener plate in a flap, that is. I know of lines snagged by grommets and have seen lines get caught by the underside of the reserve container...) Whatever the jumper did or did not do when handling the malfunction, it is not relevant to the cause. I'm OK with loose rubber bands causing line dump type malfunctions but when one of those lines snags around 'a perfectly normal flap' then IMO that flap needs to be redesigned. Getting stuck with a line of your main somewhere in or at your container leaves you with an extremely dangerous malfunction that has proven on several previous occasions that it can result in both a fatality or severe trauma - with jumpers executing normal procedures (i.e. cutaway & pull reserve) However tempting 'pilot error' may be in light of liability: if it isn't or there is more to it, it seems better to fix it... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

"Rules are for Fools yet a guidance to wise men"? Trouble with that is who's to say who's the fool and who's the wise man... The planet is massive, huge and directly aimed at you, the fellow jumper is comparatively small and who's to say you are judging it right, in the heat of the moment? What you don't want to repeat is my mistake from years and years ago: I was receiving one-on-one RW-training and near opening altitude lost track of the other guy. I was CONVINCED he was behind or directly above me and smoked it down to below 2 grand. He was above me indeed, grabbing his toggles and wondering what the f*&k I was doing... The other end of the spectrum as seen by me through binoculars from the ground: 3 way RW breaking up, one guy tracking away, 2 guys making 180 turn and staying in place for couple of seconds, instantaneously looking left, looking right, waving of and pulling. Both canopies making a 180 turn in the opening. Wrap. One guy cut away. Minor bruises & seriously deflated egos... "Stupid is as stupid does"? I have seen a pilotchute go by at less than two meters and a canopy at less than 10. So, my rule would be "PULL!" but I'm willing to make an exception when piss poor planning brings piss poor performance... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...