The111

When doing my first jump one question I had for my instructor was what to do if I got very unstable (flat spin, upside down, or something). He said the best solution was prevention. Makes sense for a first jump maybe, but I think I might disagree a bit. On my second jump I bumped shoulders pretty hard with the S3 flyer I was with. I got spun 180 degrees away from him hard but corrected and was back on course immediately. I'm curious what would happen though if something knocked me onto my back, into a flat spin, loop, or barrel roll. I would assume most experienced flyers have tried these things. I even saw a short clip once of a girl flying a WS head down. Keeping in mind that I only have 5 flights to my name right now and don't want to get in over my head... is it a good idea to intentionally try to mix it up so that you know you can recover from hairy situations? I.e. do a barrel roll, try to backfly, ball up and fall like shit for 500 feet and recover, things like that? It seems reasonable to me and I think it would make me a more confident flyer. But my instructor who has many jumps to his name seemed quite a bit scared of flat spins, making them sound like some sort of magnetic field that sucks you in and doesn't let you out. He said he's never had one and hopes not to. Almost sounded like he doubted his ability to recover from one. But I know a guy named Mike (Aviatrr on these forums) who got an S3 with relatively few BM jumps to his name, got into a flat spin on his back one of his first jumps (post here) and recovered from it very quickly. On all my jumps so far I have been perfectly stable and upright save the one quick 180 spin from my shoulder bump with the S3. To me, it makes sense that just like freefall, it would be good to know I can find stability from any situation, but my instructor seemed to think otherwise... So, would I be creating any risk if on a solo jump, I balled up all my shit and flailed uncontrollably for 500 feet and tried to recover from it? www.WingsuitPhotos.com

So did you have your fingers wedged into some sort of slot? Because if you are just grabbing something externally (i.e. a bar or the corner of a door), then if you get ripped away from it I don't see how a finger could get broken. www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Above I gave a description of my AFF level 6 where I got "stuck" in a continuous backloop (was flipping repeatedly for about 5000ft). I managed to get stable right around pull altitude, and my instructor swooped in and grabbed me hard as I pulled. On the ground, a little shaken, I said "hey, thanks for helping me stabilize out up there". He said "I didn't do anything, that was all you. There was no way I was coming near you with you flipping like that." This coming from the DZO of DeLand with many many skydives to his name. So I ask, is it actually possible to approach a very unstable student and save him? Was Bob just fucking with me or was I really on my own? That was 4 years ago and I still remember the conversation perfectly... www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Ok, you're right, I just repacked my rig in my living room (yes, really!). When I started closing the first flap I said there is no way in hell this is going to fit. It looked horrible. But by the time the third flap was closed it almost looked identical to my normal packjobs. So here's the newbie question. I'm aware of the stereotype that low-time jumpers put way too much effort into keeping their packjob neat and pretty when all that matters are a few key things like slider position, etc. I'm guilty of liking super neat packjobs. So when I was squishing the hell out of my bag to make it rectangular in the direction it wasn't intended to be, I got a little nervous, feeling like I was deforming the canopy by squishing the bag so aggressively. But it shouldn't matter, right? Once the locking stows are on everything inside will stay in the right position. I feel really stupid for this, but I'm actually a little nervous to jump this packjob, even though I know it should be better opening... Another stupid worrisome question... I can jump this type of packjob for normal freefall jumps, right? Is it actually preferable for them too? www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Yup, that was the essence of my question. Just curious if the static friction generated by the inflated wing on the loops could somehow be enough to warrant the need for that extra bit of "slack" giving you a greater snatch force. I'm inclined to say it's not needed, but I'm hoping someone who has cut away their wings in the air before (knowing whether or not they had the retracted cable "slack) can verify this... www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Don't tempt me. After getting off with a warning instead instead of a DUI or the 95mph in 55mph ticket I should have received, I promised to be a good driver. www.WingsuitPhotos.com

I don't see anything there that is relevant to wingsuits... www.WingsuitPhotos.com

I recently made this post to the G&R forum. In short, I assumed the wing cables on my GTI were too long since they appeared too long to fit into the keepers at the end of the series of loops. Hell, even my BMI agreed they were too long, he suggested I just leave them hanging or insert them into the wing (which I did for a few jumps), but he said if I really wanted to I could trim them so they fit in the keepers. So I did. Trimmed 2-3 inches off each one. Then I got this reply from cpoxon that made a lot of sense. He said they probably weren't too long, that they can actually be retracted into the handles a little bit and this gives you a greater snatch force when you need to cutaway. I had no idea about this, and I tried it out, and lo and behold, he was right. Even more perfect, the amount of length the would be lost by the retraction is about exactly what I cut off (2-3 inches). So it would have been a perfect fit to use the uncut cables had I retracted them into the handles. But now that they are a bit shorter if I retract them they barely make it through the last loop and don't go into the keeper at all. So... is this "snatch force" benefit gained from having the cables retracted a bit a significant thing? Enough that it's a safety issue to jump with the cables fully extended (not retracted at all). Practice cutaway on the ground requires virtually no force. Haven't tried in the air, I guess there could be more forces involved in that situation but I still couldn't see it being unreasonably hard. Thoughts? I should get to meet Jari this weekend at Sebastian so I'll ask him... I wish my BMI or suit salesperson (or manual) had mentioned something about this... However I really don't think this is a big deal and I'm probably over-reacting as usual. www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Yeh cabana boy, you should definitely stay for the party... last Seb boogie I didn't even get to jump the first day because of winds but it was still fun because of all the cool stuff we did at night. I'll be staying for Sat and Sun. www.WingsuitPhotos.com

I thought Jari jumped a tiny Velo with his S3? www.WingsuitPhotos.com

This is what I suspected. For clarification, is dynamic corners the same as cut corners? I was under the impression there are varying degrees of how much stitching you can get removed. I would think you wouldn't want to pack grommet to BOC unless you get the "most cut" corner you can, i.e. a full trap door effect on the BOC. So for those who do have fully cut corners, do you prefer grommet to BOC, or do you still do just grommet to pin? I plan to get my corners cut soon, but I'd like to have the same packing methods for all jumps if possible, and I'm wondering on a freefall jump if there's any disadvantage of grommet to BOC. Honestly, grommet to pin makes perfect sense for freefall, but I don't know if there is a large advantage to grommet to BOC (with cut corners) for wingsuit, over grommet to pin. www.WingsuitPhotos.com

BUMP? I am still wondering about this and the thread got buried... www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Aircraft are mechanical devices, but they don't fly themselves mechanically. They are flown by human beings who use natural reaction to decide their control input. The same natural reaction they use to control their body (which could be arguably called a mechanical device) in freefall. And as Bill pointed out, getting stable is not the same as staying stable. Standing up is not the same thing as walking. The two are very distinct skills. When people first learn to ride a bicycle the hardest part is getting started... once you're going and have speed it's easy. Same with stability in freefall. My friend had a unicycle once and if I could get going in a straight line I could ride nonstop. I could only get going like 1 out of 20 tries though. When I had to do a backflip on level 6, I lost awareness of my legs and kept my feet on my ass, which had the unwanted effect of me performing about 20 more unintentional backflips. I remember seeing green, blue, green, blue, thinking that I couldn't see my altimeter but the green was getting bigger each time, and the next time I saw it I was gonna pull regardless of stability. Fortunately I got stable (was at about 5.5k by luck), my instructor swooped in and grabbed my arm within a second, gave me a "what the fuck?" look, and watched me pull. I for one am glad I had to do the backflip. If I could have graduated AFF without it, then I could have been a licensed jumper doing uncontrolled backflips into a Cypres fire the first time something knocked me really unstable. www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Argh, that's not funny. FL weather is bad enough, do we really need bad presidents fucking up our weekend? www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Yeh, they did come with the suit, but they were too long. It was a demo suit that had just come off the line (I put the first jumps on it) and it happened to fit me perfectly so I bought it. My BMI agreed the cables were too long and said I could either leave the excess sticking out or put it inside the wing (if you didn't know this was possible, right at the end of the last loop you can get the excess cable to go inside the wing and just float around in there). For that day I put it inside the wing, but he also said in the future I could cut it a bit so it would fit in the keeper where it's supposed to. Look at the attached picture, that shows my cables at their new lengths, you can see they will take up most of the keeper. They were 2-3 inches longer before and were too long for the keepers. Damn, to answer your other question, I have loops, and I see now what you mean... it is possible to retract the cable a bit into the handles. But it is also true that it flattens out the loops and then they don't sit as nicely. Oh well. I will be at a boogie next week and Jari is supposed to be there. I will ask him if this is still ok. I understand your point about having a weaker snatch force if you get the cables retracted into the loops a bit. But I've done practice cutaway on the ground like this and it's still super easy. www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Works great, thanks for quick reply! www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Just got a GTI wingsuit. There are 4 cutaway cables for the wings. They are the same as a standard cutaway cable for your parachute cutaway system, as far as I can tell. Metal cable coated with yellow plastic. My cables are all a bit too long to fit in the keepers at the end, so I need to cut them. I snipped the end off of the first one, and assumed it would be simple to make the plastic nice and rounded at the new end like it had been before. I figured I could just hold a lighter there and it would take care of it. But once I started trying all I accomplished was causing the plastic to bubble, expand, and turn a reddish brown color. So I stopped trying before I ruined it, hopefully it's still recoverable... I can snip a bit more off to make a new end if I need to. Anyone know how to make the end all nice and rounded (thus preventing protuding metal and allowing for easy insertion into loops) after you have snipped to a new length? www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Yeh, I'd heard that same thing before, that you should be able to pick up the bag without the stows coming undone. But I guess if you can pick it up and jerk it twice like you said and it still doesn't come undone then it's too tight... www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Define "when needed"? Not trying to be smartassed... curious how you qualify needing them or not. I'm guessing you just base it on the tension of the band and your own judgment of whether or not it is tight enough... which brings up the predicament of how fit I am to judge something like that. www.WingsuitPhotos.com

That's a good question, and honestly, my answer to it is horrible. Everyone else is doing it. Like I said, 99% of the skydivers I see around me are using long ones double stowed. And in my 200 jumps I have never once bought rubber bands. I've always leeched them from friends and packers. And that always seems to be what's available. But your point is a good one. "Everyone else is doing it" is not a good answer to any question. But I am curious why everyone is doing it if short bands are such a better idea? And it does seem like a better idea... www.WingsuitPhotos.com

I did my first few flights this weekend with no mods to packing or equipment. It seemed to work well enough and I've had many flyers say that I should be fine, but I've been reading many posts on here that make me think otherwise, Chuck Blue in particular makes a good point in several posts saying you may be able to "get by" with standard gear for many jumps, but why not use the best methods available? So I plan to get cut corners, long bridle, and "inbound stows" bag I've heard of for my Vector 3. As far as packing the bag, I've heard many people suggest packing grommet to pin. My bag is very rectangular, and I don't think it would fit very cleanly like that. I have yet to try, and I will, but I still don't think it will pack well like that. Does anyone go as far as rotating the bag another 90 degrees so the grommet is closest to the BOC area? I think I heard someone suggest this but when thinking about it, it seems like it could actually make the bag harder to extract in fast forward flight, especially without cut corners to container. Thoughts? www.WingsuitPhotos.com

I have tried searching old posts and haven't found exactly what I'm looking for... I use rubber bands for my stows, I think technically they may be called "long" but to me they're normal since almost everyone at every DZ in FL I've been to uses them this size. I double stow all of my stows. However, I have been told by some that I shouldn't double stow the locking stows. Others have said not to double stow any stows which pass through grommets (first 4 on my bag). Others have said to double stow everything. All of these varying opinions have come from very qualified skydivers, most of them riggers. I've continued packing the double stows on all stows since it hasn't caused me a problem yet (but in 200 jumps what do I know?), but this has always been in the back of my mind since some people seem to think double stowing the locking stows is asking for a baglock. Since I've just started jumping wingsuits, I read Chuck Blue's account of his friend who had a few baglocks, and the whole "double stow or not" question started popping up in my mind again, with possibly more importance this time, with regards to wingsuit deployments... Any comments? Like I said, I've had very qualified skydivers and riggers argue for both sides, so I'm not sure what to think... www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Alright, just did my first BM jump (and several more) and am the proud owner of a GTI, so I'm curious how much birdjumping will be going on here. www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Another one joins the flock as the saying goes.

Dude, I've never done a raft dive but would love to. I wanna be the lazy monkey who sits in the raft. :) www.WingsuitPhotos.com