Erroll

I lived through almost all of it. Tomorrow (the 27th) is Freedom Day in SA - the country will be celebrating 10 years of post-apartheid democracy. As time goes by, fewer and fewer of the younger generation will know anything about it. As abhorent as that system of government was, it wasn't exactly world-shaping stuff.

In South Africa we have been carrying ID for decades: The so-called ID Document- it containes an ID page, pages for firearm licences, pages for drivers' licences, pages for endorsements, pages for marriage certificates. These days we are also carrying a credit-card style driver's licence. And you are right of course - we have the biggest influx of illegal aliens in all of Africa. The ID card makes absolutely no difference. As was (sarcasstically) mentioned before:- The law-abiding citizens carry legitimate ID while the illegal aliens simply don't bother, or they steal them or they get them from corrupt Home Affairs officials.

Given that we had around 20 parties contesting our elections, it was indeed an electoral collage!

From The Sunday Times

To the other 19 parties contesting the election!

We have just completed our general elections in SA and the ruling party (not unexpectedly) took 69% of the vote compared to around 12% by the official opposition. A landslide in anyone's langauge. One of the questions the political analysts are asking is: Is such a majority likely to give the ruling party the confidence to try and do better, to be a benevolent and generous government, OR is it likely to make the government arrogant and authoritarian? Does the old adage still apply? : Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Hence my question. Most respondents posted that a country should abide by it's extradition treaties and it's own constitution. Isn't it therefore hipocritical and inconsistent to change the rules for someone such as Bin Laden? Apart from that, my other problem with this issue is that, as everyone knows, South Africa's crime rate is already very high and by taking this stance I believe we are inviting even more criminals to seek a safe haven here. To Juanesky: All countries have histories. Our's is not a particularly rosy one and it is easy to knock Tonto or any other South African, based on our country's past. However, as South African I am proud to live in a country in Africa which has just held it's third democratic elections - elections which have been hailed as the best ever held anywhere in Africa - extremely well organised, free, fair and peaceful (no mention even of 'hanging chads'). If one spent all one's time dwelling on the past, there would be no country in the world that would be able to hold it's collective head very high.

It is the South African government's policy not to extradite people who may face the death penalty in the country asking for their extradition, irrespective of the crimes they have been accused of. This policy is based on the fact this country has abolished capital punishment. From The Star : Libya believes that Ibrahim Tantoush has links to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, and years ago stole a substantial amount of gold "to finance terrorist activities abroad"..... Tantoush was arrested in February after Libya asked for his extradition. He will appear in court again on June 30. ..... This is just an example and to my knowledge we don't have an extradition treaty with Libya in any case. My question is "When is extradition/non-extradition justified?". If Bin Laden himself showed up in South Africa, can/should the government refuse extradition based on their own Constitution?

What utter nonsense! If my wife had to fall pregnant I would expect her to discuss the issue/possibility of terminating the pregnancy with me. For every woman carrying a fertilised egg, there is a man who produced the sperm and who is the father. Absolutely. Ultimately, it has to be the woman's decision. For the record, I voted pro-choice.

A certain irony in that statement, given the original topic and the subsequent debate.

actually science has come a long way to doing just that. [I]I'll dig out the exact reference when i find it again[/I] Test have shown that primates understand the concept of 'fairness' I found this very interesting and came across this article on the subject.

I did several solo freefalls in the U.K. (at more than one DZ) while on a business trip. I only had to take temporary BPA membership once - it was valid for the length of my stay.

Rob Mengle. His total commitment and enthusiasm always impressed me. One of his favourite sayings upon landing was "Skydive! The ONLY way to travel!". Rob later moved to the US and he went in with a plane on take off in the mid '90s (the details escape me). He was quite a character.

If one even wants to attempt a debate on this subject, one has to define the word 'Religion' and that already presents major problems. Ron L. Hubbard's definition is going to be very different from that of the local sangoma (witchdoctor). As we have seen earlier (being able to prove or disprove, hypotheses etc) things quickly deteriorate into semantics. If the discussion is about Science vs Christianity or Science vs The Bible then I think Bill summed it up very accurately and succinctly : "It's not that the "young earth" theory can coexist with the fossil, geological and astronomical dating that leads us to a ~5 billion year old planet, it's more that the theory that the earth was created in seven days is not legitimate outside its moral and religious lessons."

Surely that has to do with the fact that you are stepping off into a virtual vacuum, or at the very least, an area of very low pressure such as you find in the burble? You are not being buffeted by wind because immediately as you leave any tailgate, there is no relative wind.

I disagree with fact that a visual cue is responsible for the 'dropping sensation'. (See my earlier post) about falling past clouds). An elevator in a high rise building accelerates quite rapidly from being stationary. Being inside the elevator, you have absolutely no visual cue, yet the falling sensation (your stomach in your throat) is very real.

I have fallen past massive, thick and very high clouds on more than one occasion. All that did was to illustrate just how fast I was moving, having a stationary point of reference. It did not cause a 'dropping sensation' at all. I think the easiest analogy is the elevator. When it starts dropping your body (supported by your feet) starts going down with the elevator instantly, while your intestines follow a fraction of a second later. The same principle applies when the pilot gives you negative G's. Your body and your intestines do not move as one during initial acceleration and there-in lies the key. Rapid acceleration is the primary cause of the 'dropping' sensation'. In my opinion, of course.

Yeah. In the context of the way the thread developed, I couldn't help but notice some (unintended) puns: we were all getting up it was the jump that caused the reaction. one that we struggle with all the time. you can just slip it on under ya jumpsuit but it's still a touchy subject just feel it's no biggie and act accordingly.

It's interesting how you get a feel for someone's personality just from reading their messages. I have never met Wendy nor am I ever likely to(unless someone sponsors me an airticket to the States). I totally agree with the sentiment above. Wendy comes across as sharp, intelligent, eloquent, erudite, informed, humble and just plain sweet. She's cool!

That sums it up very nicely!

Above I gave a description of my AFF level 6 where I got "stuck" in a continuous backloop (was flipping repeatedly for about 5000ft). I managed to get stable right around pull altitude, and my instructor swooped in and grabbed me hard as I pulled. On the ground, a little shaken, I said "hey, thanks for helping me stabilize out up there". He said "I didn't do anything, that was all you. There was no way I was coming near you with you flipping like that." This coming from the DZO of DeLand with many many skydives to his name. During my AFF course, I never managed to actually do a full backloop. Every attempt had me on my back looking up at blue sky. This included level 7 (which was the last dive before the hop&pop). This dive (known in SA as the full series) consisted of a dive exit, backloop, 360 left, 360 right, backloop. Both 'loops' had me on my back with my instructor off to the side. He would give me a thumbs-up, signalling that I should go back to belly-to-earth. On the ground he congratulated me on my control and ability to get stable again. I concede that at no point was I truly unstable and at the time told him so. He said the test was to see if I could get back to a normal belly-to-earth, still altitude aware and in control. (I passed.) He added that it was also good for the student's confidence, knowing that he/she could stay in control. .

If anyone following this thread found your post offensive they shouldn't be in this thread. I thought it was hillarious!!!

I thought that "Enemy at the gate" was also an excellent portrayal of that time.

I find it very curious how vociferously some folk have been denying the existence of any link between Iraq/Saddam and al-Qaeda, yet when Madrid gets bombed because of their involvement in Iraq, al-Qaeda claims responsibility and no one bats an eyelid?

From the above article : "According to tradition in south and south-eastern Afghanistan, a suitor must pay around $5000 to the parents of the girl he wishes to marry. " Donkeys (and sheep) are wayyyyy cheaper, and they don't sue