Erroll

If it was wrong then it was his superiors job to make sure he knew. I guess you missed the tongue-in-cheek () reference to someone else being discussed at length on this forum because he claimed that 'he did not know' what he was doing was wrong.

The job of a supervisor is to supervise. If a subordinate gets out of hand he/she has not done their job. The supervisor need not be omniscient or omnipresent. It is impossible but the supervisor need to be respected. If you have a well trained, well supervised and dedicated team shit rarely, if ever happens. It is up to the supervisor to ensure this is the case. A crappy, ill disciplined, unmotivated team is the fault of the supervisor and the blame lies there. Given the little information supplied, we do not know anything about the (hypothetical) training or lack thereof that this (hypothetical) tank commander and crew received. For all we know the tank commander in this scenario is a much decorated veteran who simply 'did not know' that what he was doing was wrong.

Responsibility is not synonymous with culpability. It did happen during his watch. He knows that it happened, we know that it happened, and he knows that we know. Now it is up to him to fix it and to ensure that it never happens again. If it does, he should be forced to resign. His successor should then not have the benefit of more than one strike before he too is out.

This makes your poll moot and opinions become irrelevant.

Thanks for your earlier reply, Jim. On the subject of CO's- How are CO's likely to be received by the community and the draftees? Is there any stigma attached to these folk? When we (SA) had full conscription, most conscientious objectors were detained and spent two years doing menial tasks such as base maintenance, gardening and cleaning. Since they did not get to have a lot of contact with the civilian population, there were few problems there. However, the CO's were not very popular (to put it mildly) with the serving members.

Out of curiosity, does the US draft system/legislation allow for the concept of "Conscientious objector", and if so, how is it normally handled?

There's also that big Vodacom billboard on the way to the airport featuring the baby in freefall. Very cute.

I can only surmise that this post was intended to be a joke, and a poor one at that. The alternative is that poster displays ignorance that is simply too scary to contemplate!

Disclaimer: I don't, nor will I ever, do Base. In my opinion the statement "BASE jumping IS NOT dangerous!! It is the people (humans - mere mortals) that participate that make it dangerous." is devoid of any logic, very misleading and contrary to everything most folk have ever been taught about both skydiving and Base. Having read and researced opinions of many very experienced Basers and skydivers, the consensus appears to be: "The sport is extremely dangerous and the successful participant is the one who manages the risks properly". This is usualy followed by the rider that "Even if you do everything right, you can still die".

You just don't give up, do you? Once again, your pathetic attempts at raising controversy do not warrant a response.

I can't agree with you more, Andrea. My stepson turned thirteen this past weekend. We took him and a few mates to a large amusement park (Gold Reef City for the locals). We spent the entire day there, going on the rides (adults included), visiting museums, having lunch consisting of hotdogs and Cokes, and every one had a blast. On a similar note to the Faux Mitzvahs - Over here (as no doubt in the States too) it has become an absolute no-no to wear an off-the-rack dress for the matric farewell dance (similar to your Home-coming ball(?)). The competition is so fierce that the entire evening appears to be some kind of modeling contest! And of course the kids whose parents couldn't afford the dresses (or limos) either don't attend or spend the evening hiding behind pillars. Fortunately my wife is very handy with a sewing machine because I cringe at the amount of money that gets spent (wasted) on peer pressure, keeping up with Jones's kids and just plain extravagance.

Good catch, Wendy! Pajarito, your question is totally misplaced and an insult to the many South African males of Tonto's age and older (myself included) who have seen action. It had little to do with guts.

With the exception of one or two locals, I also find this time of day (day for me) rather quiet!

Has to be lass at the back with her arms in the air. She must be practicing for her first dive-exit.

Amen.

It was an attempt at illustrating to the previous poster how easy it is to try and be controversial and to demonstrate to him how irrelevant his comments were in the context of the thread. It is clear that you did not grasp that and, as in the Apartheid thread, you appear to be bent on stirring up controversy of your own. I am not joining in.

I have explained to Wendy the purpose of my posting that resume. Either you did not get it, or you will have to show me where else I have bashed YOU/The US. (I am not sure which you are referring to in your post).

While I still maintain that this thread has little to do with Mandela, let me respond: What you quoted is the opinion of one aging old man. That man happens to be an ex-President and a Nobel laureate. Through his statesmanship South Africa was able to complete the transition from Apartheid to true democracy painlessly. He is a man revered by 99% of all South Africans (both black and white). He is still admired and feted throughout the world. I believe it shows a distinct lack of class and culture to label a man of that stature an idiot simply because he expressed an opinion which differs from your's.

Hi Wendy. I posted that with my tongue firmly in my cheek. If someone had sent me a similar one about Kerry I would've posted that too. I obviously have no direct interest in the two candidates but I do follow all political the debates on here closely and recognised several of the Bush-bashers' statements in the above CV. Believe me,I leave the real Bush-bashing and Kerry-kicking to the experts while I watch from a (considerable) distance!

I received this resume via email. You guys are more qualified than I to gauge it's accuracy. George W. Bush The White House, USA EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE: LAW ENFORCEMENT: I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available. MILITARY: I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam. COLLEGE: I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader. PAST WORK EXPERIENCE: I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock. I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. With the help of my father and our right-wing friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas. ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS: I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America. I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money. I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history. With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes. ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT: I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record. I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week. I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury. I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history. I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period and the all-time record for most foreclosures. In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs. I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Connie Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her. I set the record for most campaign fundraising trips by a U.S. President. I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations. My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. History, Enron. My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history. I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed. I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history. I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts. I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history. I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law. I refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention. I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election). I set the record for fewest number of press conferences of any President since the advent of television. I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period. After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history. I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history. I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, preemptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community. I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security. I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families -- in war time. I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD. I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice. RECORDS AND REFERENCES: All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view. All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view. All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-president, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review. PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004. PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERY VOTER YOU KNOW.

And George W Bush is convicted 'drunk driver' who is still orchestrating bombing campaigns. He is, of course, the chief policeman of the world. Something to think about when dealing with American presidents. John, your comments have absolutely no relevance to the purpose of this thread or anything that has been posted in this thread.

I'm impressed! For what it's worth, President de Klerk was awarded the Nobel peace prize for his efforts. (He shared it with Nelson Mandela of course)

What you described sounds very much like the Nigerian 419 scam and in the majority of cases it is pure greed that leads to these people being taken in. But that is for another thread.

Fair enough. How will it be different from the way your passport information, banking details or medical records are stored? Somewhere along the line there is always the possibility of someone getting illicit access to information and misusing it. I know from personal experience that having to carry positive ID has helped me on several occasions. In fact, on one trip to the UK I had to rent a car at Heathrow. My SA ID book (which at the time included my SA driver's licence) was good enough for for the rental company! As it happened, my colleague was not allowed to drive the rental since his ID book had an endorsement that his driver's licence had been suspended.

When we converted to the new style driver's licences (with photographs), every applicant was fingerprinted too. Personally I didn't think it was an invasion of privacy or Big Brother checking up. With our soaring crime rate, I believe it is just another 'tool' the authorities can use to combat crime.