AFFI

Jump, Pack, Red Bull, Repeat... That is awesome!

Quite possibly the wisest comment ever made! I couldent agree more. Applause... Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Quote To the person who states flat turns are OK.....you just keep tryig them then...I guarantee you'll get a ride in an ambulance at some stage.... Ignore that advice.... Its a dumb thing to say, because it only takes the smallest misjudgement while doing a turn (or turbulence for instance)....and you will be bitten for certain..... Better not to go there in the first place....Quote First off I respect Tim’s posts immensely not solely due to the fact that there is an enormous amount of experience under his belt but also for his ability to clearly communicate his points and have learned a lot from reading them here on DZ.com. That being said I would like to expand on this topic a bit: Performing a Flat Turn low to the ground is sometimes necessary so it is a good idea to practice the maneuver at a safe altitude, ergo way up there, above an altitude you are willing to cutaway from and it is a great idea to get canopy piloting training. When making the decision to perform a Flat Turn in order to not hit an obstacle use common sense and decide which is the lesser of the two evils. For example if the choices are a Flat Turn (low to the ground) or hitting power lines, obviously changing heading might be preferred over flying into the power lines. Don’t panic and keep the parachute overhead by proper execution of the Flat Turn as indicated in Section 6 Page 153 of the 2006 SIM Alternatively, if the choices are a Flat turn (low to the ground) or a Down/Cross wind landing then the down winder would be advisable in lieu of performing a maneuver to change your heading. I have witnessed a very experienced skydiver (in terms of time in the sport, jump numbers and currency) pull a single toggle down to the shoulder in an attempt to avoid a tree at approximately 100 feet and die. I have also seen a skydiver still on student status perform a properly executed Flat Turn (low to the ground) in order to avoid a power line, remaining calm and keeping the canopy overhead the entire time, then intersect the ground in mid-turn, perform a PLF and walk away. The student had very limited experience performing this maneuver but the combination of study, limited practice and remaining calm made the difference for this individual. Remain calm, practice at a safe altitude and choose the lesser of two evils… Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Downwind in 30 MPH + a good PLF = no broken bones.

I am delighted that you did not stop fighting for your life and with an extraordinary measure of luck on your side was able to not only survive the whole ordeal, but was able to walk away from it. First off, Congratulations to you, had you not fought for your life and given up at any point the outcome might have been disastrous. Skydiving accidents are usually a series of small mistakes that result in a catastrophe. This is not a critique on the method used for the execution of emergency procedures (1 or 2 hands per handle) and certainly not an attack towards you, but rather a look at the mistake(s): “On deployment, I had a brisker than normal opening, and found myself in a very fast turn to the right”. 2006 SIM, Section 4 Page 29 States: 1. For a parachute to be safe to land it must be: a. “There,” meaning deployment has occurred and something is overhead. b. “Square,” meaning that the parachute is inflated, rectangular (or slightly tapered), and regular in shape. c. “Steerable,” meaning that you can turn left and right and flare. 2. If the parachute fails any of the above tests, you must initiate reserve parachute procedures. Further down the page routine problems are listed, the one that stands out is: If the canopy has opened normally but turns on its own, be sure both brakes are released. a. “There” and “Square” – this is a visual assessment, which you made. “I looked at the canopy, trying to diagnose the problem” The mistake here was the whole bit about “trying to diagnose the problem” which you did not do effectively utilizing the guidelines found in the SIM. To share with you a small section of the student manual where I work, it states: Pre-mature brake release, turning and diving with no line twists: What if one of the toggles (brakes) releases and becomes un-stowed during deployment? First off, what would be happening to the flight characteristics of your canopy? It would be turning and diving because you have asymmetrical drag along of the trailing edge of your canopy. When you turn and dive, there is a pendulum effect; you may no longer have the canopy above your head. • Remain ALTITUDE aware by visually checking your altimeter (you can do this as you reach for your toggles or immediately after flaring). • Grasping both toggles, do a full flare; you have just corrected your problem. You should now be flying straight when at full flight. If you are not flying straight, remain ALTITUDE aware by visually checking your altimeter and establish your priorities based on your altitude. Ask yourself, can I safely land this canopy? What are my limits of controllability? • Perform a control check, if you can safely land, remain traffic aware; proceed to your holding area. • If you have doubt that you can safely land this canopy, release everything in your hands (toggles), cutaway & deploy reserve. • Remember, adhere to your hard deck recommendations, always remain altitude aware. So perhaps Lesson 1 could be: Additional and continued training in dealing with routine problems that might arise with the parachute inflation. In other words, had you been prepared for this situation as soon as you realized that you were “in a very fast turn to the right” you would have automatically grasped both toggles (Alt can be checked while doing this without loosing a beat) and flared the canopy - now the canopy should be flying straight if a pre-mature brake release was the issue. “As I have trained, I looked at the handles, got one hand on each, and I pulled the cutaway. Didn't budge”. 2006 SIM, Section 4 Page 29 States: Locate and grasp the cutaway handle. Unfortunately the SIM does not go into much detail other than to use the word “grasp” which is defined as: “to take or seize eagerly”. To share with you a small section of the student manual where I work, concerning the cutaway it states (for 2 hands): LOOK at your red cutaway pillow and FIRMLY grasp it with your right hand (your right hand is the “push” hand) wrapping your fingers firmly around the red cutaway pillow. Place your left hand over your right and firmly grasp the red cutaway pillow using both hands. Using both hands will decrease the chance of an out of sequence procedure and prevent loosing the cutaway pillow from your grasp in the event of a difficult extraction (hard pull). Do NOT let go of the cutaway pillow until you are released from BOTH sides or you run out of altitude to safely initiate a cutaway. Maintain an arched body position by pushing your hips forward. PEEL the Velcro from the bottom of the red cutaway pillow toward your sternum. The reason you peel from the bottom is because there are two yellow cables leaving the top of the pillow and going into the hard housings. At this point your eyes should be fixed on your silver reserve handle. Maintain an arched body position by pushing your hips forward. PUSH the red cutaway pillow vigorously, straight toward your groin until you are at full arm extension. Your tricep muscles should be flexed and your hands should be close to your body’s groin area. If both risers have not been released, hold the red cutaway pillow tightly with your right hand still at full arm extension and use your left hand to strip out the yellow cables. Be ADVISED: you may feel one side release and not the second, the RSL side cable may be longer of the two. PUSH the cutaway handle as if your life depends on it! You MUST fully release the main canopy before deploying your reserve to avoid an entanglement. After both risers are released simply let go of the red cutaway pillow (no need to throw it). The reason you PUSH straight down towards your groin is because the two yellow cables leaving the top of the pillow are going into the hard housings. Think of the mechanics involved. If you punch away from your body (perpendicular) you may create a bend in your yellow cable potentially resulting in a hard extraction. Maintain an arched body position by pushing your hips forward. So perhaps Lesson 2 could be: Additional and continued training in PROPER execution of emergency procedures. Be advised that if you practice on your own gear excessively, you can possibly create undue wear on the Velcro that seats your Cutaway Pillow. As far as the method used in the execution of EP’s there are pro’s and con’s to 1 handed and 2 handed methods. If you choose the 1 handed method it may be wise to incorporate into your training a “hard pull” scenario where you must bring your left hand over and use 2 hands on the cutaway pillow. At the DZ where I work we teach the 2 handed method with the underlying philosophy being: Using both hands will decrease the chance of an out of sequence procedure and prevent loosing the cutaway pillow from your grasp in the event of a difficult extraction (hard pull). “knowing how quickly I was burning through altitude, made the decision to pull my reserve handle in hopes of getting fabric over my head.” 2006 SIM, Section 5 Page 102 States: At some point during descent under a partial malfunction, it becomes too low for a safe cutaway and you must deploy the reserve without cutting away. It is at this point where the compounded mistakes start to increase in complexity and diminish your odds of survival. The idea is to not let situations escalate to this point. I am curious what your altitude was, if indeed it was time for such an act of desperation. Then to sum up the next portion of your experience: ”From my perspective, staring at a completely extracted reserve handle in my hand and seeing nothing white over my head, it didn't feel like a great decision. Witnesses tell me my reserve was trailing around behind me for quite some time. I then went back to the cutaway handle and started pulling cutaway cables manually by pulling directly on the exposed portion of the cables. At that point, the right riser released, and I could see the main trailing by the left riser. The reserve then popped up above my head, cleanly, but in massive line twists. I continued pulling on the cables while also trying to get the reserve out of the twists. The main eventually cleared (witnesses on the ground estimate this was at about 250-300 feet), and I finished kicking out of the line twists.” During this portion of your experience – KUDOS to you for fighting the good fight. Danger that could arise at this point could stem from the deluge of adrenaline that must have been flowing, and in all that excitement the actions you chose (or simply reacted to) make could have gone either way. This is where the extraordinary measure of luck was on your side. It is likely that I have not covered every aspect of my assessment of this situation but will stop now because this post is getting long - I am looking forward to learning more from the discussion this post might generate. Thank you so much for sharing this experience with us and humbly opening up the floor for discussion concerning this incident. I personally have learned a great deal as a result and quite probably others have as well. I cannot convey how deep my gratitude is that you did not get injured or corpsed-up... Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Would it be considered "discrimination"? I mean do they let elephants bungee jump? Of course not, the bungee would break.

I did a search for 2 canopies & RSL, it returned 100 results. You can probably find the answers you are looking for in previous posting on the subject. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=2%20canopies%20%26%20RSL&sb=score&mh=25

There has been much discussion on this subject, simply use the search function… Forums: Search Results Your search for Cloud Cover returned 235 results in 0.687s. Link to Cloud Cover Search: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=Cloud%20Cover%20&sb=score&mh=25

If you wer determined to jump anyway why ask for advice in this forum? A two week layoff and playing it safe could not have been a bad idea, its only two weeks compared to more time off if the injury was aggrivated and made worse, could mean months off and an expensive surgery.

No no no no no He is just kidding with this one, just in case you cannot tell I am spelling it out for you: disregard this piece of advice.

I don't consider changing emergency procedures to be something I will do on a knee-jerk reaction. I'd like to get a better sense of whether it was technique (pulling rather than peeling) or a strength issue before I make a final decision. Not a complete failure as NWFlyer is alive to talk about - through an extrodnary stroke of luck... More later, need to digest this string of opinions.

Seems like Bloody is just kidding...

Well written Trae... Edited to add: And some not so "Newish" people too... Most "Newish"?

Are you saying that you are having this happen to you on most of your camera jumps? If so something is not quite right - I have thousands of jumps with a camera and could count the number of minor strikes with my thumbs, so this should not happen a lot... At least in my experience... Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Dont know the rules for the country you are in but here in the states you would be required to go through a refresher training and jump with an instructor who would help you decide which canopy would be right for you, so talk to your instructors... Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Congrats! Get that test sent in and Viloa! Night Jumps! Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Some try to get it all in at a certain time - hard to believe but some I know say they can get it all in a mere 2 hours... Biggun is right on... It takes as long as it takes and a "good" instructor will be willing to take the time necessary to get comprehension to occour, then again it is also wise to recgonize when they are frustrated, tired and unable to learn and to perhaps call it a day and get em fresh in the AM or another day. IMHO the worse thing to do is take a student up who it not prepaired. Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Not a good idea to seek advice on issues like this online, please talk to your instructors... M'kay? Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

I would encourage that action when it is the lesser of two evils... Best to learn how to first, a well executed flat turn when the chips are down are the reason I am still alive to type this - thank you Don Y. Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

What is "nearly no altitude loss"? So can I avoid another canopy on a collision course as low as 50 feet and still have time to "get the canopy back overhead"? In the middle of a properly executed flat turn the canopy should be overhead as well, if you intersect the ground at this point a PLF should provide enough protection to walk away uninjured. Learn to keep the canopy overhead during the turn the entire time. Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Well, have you made any skydives yet?

Bareback Mountain?

Who does and does not is not the issue for my reply but since this can of worms was opened - The Gov't pulled a record setting 312 BILLION USD for the month of April 2006 solely in sales taxes. With monthly revenues at such a staggering rate and the intolerable mismanagement(s) of our elected officials the problems we are facing as a country can hardly be attributable to problems that are miniscule in comparison as closing the northern borders, or the southern for that matter. If you want to look the real problem square in the face then look at our elected officials and you don’t have to look far, many local state representatives spend millions in campaign funds when compared to thousands just a few decades past. After factoring in the rate of inflation the sum of the equitation leaves me as nauseated as do the current salaries of sports celebrities – the current state of our elected Gov’t is no different… Grossly overpaid, overrated and over spending… Mike Savage (or Trent) for President! That is all... Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Wouldn’t this be analogous to a type of Horshoe, the Out of Sequence deployment (D-Bag doesn’t necessarily need to be out of the container)? My understanding of the definition of a Total is that the container is closed, how could the pin be extracted and still be considered a total? Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

You could work more, perhaps at the DZ as a packer or manifest. That's how I paid for my training and gear, and jumping. God I wish I lived closer to a DZ. Essentially 1.5 - two hours a way which is only a problem due to working Mon-Sat. Otherwise I would definitely be spending time out there. My wife and I live 2.5 hour drive each way so we go out on Friday after work and come home Sundays. Pitch a tent, stay in bunk room or rent a camper - in the last home DZ I went to I used to sleep on the hangar floor and had 1.5 hour drive... Pretty soon, after the bug bites you harder you will probably be more willing to go to further lengths... Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…