RogerRamjet

That's a good story for sure. I "lost" my all white C9 with a lineover mal. The line must have burned a quarter of the canopy up. All I can remember is seeing all the others on the load going up (as I was going down just a bit faster than they were) and some of them yelling "cutaway, cutaway...." So I did and deployed my all white 26' Navy Conical from my Wonderhog with plastic reserve ripcord Then I made the big decision to buy a Strato-Star sight unseen. They were just being released and Booth got one in (the first one in Florida as far as I know) and the guy who ordered it could not pay. I figured I would walk less, but cutaway more since squares of the time malfunctioned more often. 650 jumps later on that Star and no mals or even entertaining openings. The new era of squares was upon us and of course led eventually to an all square (virtually anyway) sport. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Maybe, but the jumper has initiated a right turn (look at the steering lines) which is probably distorting things a bit... I have severl Sled jumps too, same color pattern. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I believe I do remember that coming out (much later after I left his shop), but Bill had already made the change and of course he used a metal housing. The plastic reserve ripcord just went through a webbing tunnel, not a place for cable... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

You and Jerry both have it correct though yours is the more accurate description. We sewed a diamond shaped cap on a standard MA-1. The container had a loop of bungie on one flap and grommets on the remaining flaps. You pulled the bungie through the other three flaps and secured the container with a bight of the bridle (this is why the transition to the hand-deploy was so easy for us, the container closure was already working). The pilot chute was then compressed on the outside of the pack, you flipped it over and secured it with the plastic ripcord. BTW, the first Wonderhogs used a plastic ripcord for both the main and reserve closure, not a plastic coated cable. Bill put that stuff through an incredible barrage of tests for flex, hot, cold, impact, you name it. However, when someone went in at Case Grande and blamed a broken reserve ripcord, Bill immediately switched to a traditional cable with pins reserve ripcord. I never saw the "broken" ripcord and still have my doubts about it being the cause though I suppose it may have broken on impact. Bill is not the sort to take chances (it was the first fatality on a Wonderhog and he was visibly shaken about it). The whole idea behind the rig was to increase safety, not introduce new issues (though I suppose with anything new that is somewhat inevitable). BTW, my only mal was a lineover on a C9 round and I cutaway and deployed my 26' Navy conical with my plastic reserve ripcord... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Well, it may be and "early" model, but it's after I left which makes it at least into the 200's in production. It does have the belly band hand-deploy which of course lost favor to "safer" mounting positions later on. I made the first hand-deploy jump and I can't tell you how hard it was to let go of that thing ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

No, it's the going back up in de plane and realizing you're going to jump again. Your mileage may vary, but even though I really wanted to jump I felt like a first jump student all over again. As for the canopies, you have a lot more prior experience with the old ones than I did and some of those older ones were awfully touchy and could stall without any warning, etc. But sadly, it is easier to get hurt, or killed under today's canopies than the older generation types. I did a couple really dumb things in the seventies with 5 cells and 7 cells that I actually got up and walked away from that I think just might kill me if I made the same mistake nowadays with my Pilot. I stand by what I said, anybody who's been out for a long time, long enough to predate Zero P canopies, should take a canopy course, it can save them a lot of pain and suffering. And by the way, welcome back ! Thanks for the followup reply. Yes, I have (had) a lot of experience on some pretty strange squares from those days. Before I was christened "Ramjet," a lot of the locals at Z-Hills called me Roger Ramair since I jumped every square I could get my hands on once I had 100 jumps (the minimum requirement at Z-Hills to jump a square). Some of those babies could indeed stall or even turn without much help from the rider, and talk about hard openings (if you could get them to open that is)... As for the canopy course, I agree completely. Too bad we had no such thing back then. Even without swooping, many people had no idea how to handle their squares or recognize and deal with a mal. Jim Hooper was ASO during my time at the Hills and had me give a safety talk to the square pilots before one of the Turkey meets because people were not handling mals or even flying the canopies with much common sense. I think I had 50 or 60 square jumps at the time and was considered the seasoned square pilot... Oh well, a total novice by today's standards

Holy crap, Steve was working on several ram air design modifications at Z-Hills in 1973-4 while I was the rigger there. He cut holes in the bottom skin and in the ribs between cells in all kinds of ram air canopies (I had never seen some of them and have no idea where they came from). I did some sewing for him, but he was somewhat secretive about what the holes were supposed to do. I saw him throw out a 24' round reserve behind one of his creations about 100ft from the ground. One swing and thud (he was not exactly light). I remember he got a 400sq ft ram air in to "play with" and we took it out and towed it behind a truck on the back runway with 3000ft of line. Several of us flew it that way, it was perfect for that. Took me forever to come down after release though since I weighed only 135lbs... What ever became of Steve, is he still with us somewhere? ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Welcome back! 185 weight + 030 gear = 215 WL's: 210 = 1.02:1 (I would not start here after so long a loayoff) 230 = .91:1 260 = .83:1 Of course you will be doing some training with an AFFI right? Take your instructors advice. Thanks. 210 was off the top of my AFFI's head, he does not know what I weigh yet. From your chart, I would elect the 230 as that is the same loading my Strato was (30 years and 50 lbs ago...). I am extremely fit though, the extra weight has to do with not being skinny anymore and being a competative water-skier. I will be doing my re-cert with Carl Daugherty, AFFI, Deland Safety Adviser and veteran of more than 16000 jumps. Also, he and I were both in the worlds first 16 man diamond* together and have many many jumps with each other. *Ok, 16 way, but everyone said 16 man back then and thought nothing of it even though there were often ladies in them. I expect to be nervous on the initial part of the jump, but I was not expecting someone to say the canopies were so different that they might scare me. I mean first jump students are riding them, right? ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Good advice. Doesn't help much for the first jump(s) back though. I've been out 27 years and will be making some jumps at the end of the month. From observing it would not appear that the large student type canopies are moving any faster than the Strato-Stars of old, should I expect the canopy to scare the crap out of me (I thought it would just be the jump)? I have 650 Strato-Star jumps and a bunch of Para-Plane, Cloud, original Foil, and original Sled jumps as well. I weigh 185lbs and was thinking that a rental 210 (whatever) would be fairly docile and as easy to land as my Star was (135lbs then). No? ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

You are correct, the first Wonderhogs had 1-1/2 capewells like most gear of the time (except mine which I put 1 shots on). I don't know exactly when Bill released the 3-Ring to the world, but he was working on them when I left his shop in 1975. Yes, I remember what the reserve ripcords were made of, but I'm cheating since I built the first 100 + rigs for Bill. I'll let someone else take a shot before answering that one... And I'll add a question... the original Wonderhogs had a spring loaded pilot chute. Anyone remember how it worked? ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Note that it only says he fell out and landed astride a horse ... it doesn't say Sgt. Webb or the horse survived. I did know Gene Minnel from Alaska. Back in the late 70s, early 80s, he cutaway a main about 2 grand and hit the trees and snow at the edge of a parking lot on a demo in Fairbanks, with his reserve still in the container. One of the witnesses ran over to him expecting to find Gene dead ... instead, the corpse said, "That wasn't so bad." He suffered a crushed heel and broken fingers along with severe bruising. Wasn't his day that day. He died from cancer just a few years ago. Personnally, if I cutaway and don't get a reserve out for some reason and survive, I'd have to say it WAS MY DAY! ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I started in 1973 and stopped in 1980. At the end of this month I'm going to make a few jumps in Deland and my Mom (89) is not too thrilled but understands. My parents came to watch me jump one time at Z-Hills when I had around 500 jumps. Afterwards, they said, ok we saw it and you seem to know what you're doing. They never came out again and still worried about me even though they got a better understanding of what I was doing. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

-I am spending way too much and not learning good money management True -I’m going to get board with it and try BASE jumping (then the safety lectures start) Possibly, but at least you're not starting with BASE. -It doesn’t take skill to fall This is true, from the most skilled to the least skilled jumper, they all fall when they exit the aircraft. -The thrill only last for 1 min and that is not worth 40$ They can not know this if they have not tried it. -I don’t know what I’m talking about I’m just being obsessive/a stupid 19year old (this is possible ‘cause right now all I can think about is how much I want to be looking out of the plane door again) For me it was 20 ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Would the re-routing of the reserve loop be easily missed in a pin check? ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I know there are one or two in the Miami Water-ski club that were skydivers at one time. Don't know if they are from that far back though, have to ask about that. A couple of their names are Bill Koch (we call him Pepsi), Joe Lazoro, and Tom DeChristopher. All used to jump and all are in their fifties. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

700ft also. Stuck altimeter and all 4 on the dive went low looking at the same one... Hooper was ASO at Z-Hills at the time and had a few choice words for us though they weren't really needed in my case since it scared the crap out of me ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Interesting poll and a great thread so far... I'd say go ahead and post whatever is needed including speculation. The speculation part is difficult for some, but here is my view. I believe that if at least one person has altered their behavior or how they check their gear or has gone and checked something about it based on a speculative post, then speculation is worth it in the incidents forum. I know it's sometimes hard to take for some, but I do believe some lives may have been saved just from some speculation that turned out to be false for that particular incident, but still caused someone to think about and correct something. As for stupid comments, well I am of above average intelligence (some would disagree), but I have certainly done some stupid things in my life. It should probably be phrased as a stupid action vs. something like "they were stupid to do that." Anyway, if I go in, I’d certainly like to think the mistake(s) I made that brought about my death could be avoided through dialogue in the incidents forum. If I don’t die, I’ll be the first one posting. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

He had the original tri-conical low porosity 23' reserve. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I knew a guy like that too, he said...I bet my ass on it every other jump, what's the difference? Revis said all kinds of things like that including "I'll never make my 25th birthday"... he didn't. did he go in because of a reserve mal? Oh no, not Revis.. he would never meet his end in the way we all thought he would (which would have been going in due to low pulling or riding a reserve mal in after cutting away a good main). He took off one night in the fog in an airplane with no instrument lighting using only a flashlight, turned upsidedown and crashed into the garbage dump about a mile from the Z-Hills Commercial Center (where it used to be in the middle of the airport). His Tri-Con round reserve always opened. My 26' Navy Conical would have always opened IMO, but I would NEVER have bet my last chance on that when I didn't need to. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I knew a guy like that too, he said...I bet my ass on it every other jump, what's the difference? Revis said all kinds of things like that including "I'll never make my 25th birthday"... he didn't. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I have made two intentionals. Both with three parachutes. It's kind of a shame that's so hard to do these days, was much easier in the days of piggybacks with d-rings and round reserves. When I had my real mal, the cutaway and reserve deployment were routine... I have seen two others do intentionals with just their usual two canopy rigs. Seemed crazy to me though one of those two (Billy Revis) did it several times when his reserve was due for a repack (every 60 days back then). ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Hmmm, I was in two world records at around 350-400 jumps (first 16 way diamond, first 20 way Papillion)... It would seem that today with AFF and tunnels and such, that competence would come sooner rather than later. I certainly agree with you that by 100 jumps you "SHOULD" be safe with others. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Take care and recover fully Bill, the skydiving world still needs you! ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Not sure about the eighties, but in the seventies I thought a Wonderhog at $320 was outrageous when most other rigs were going for $240'ish. Strato Stars were $549, and a good National Bias LoPo reserve went for $365 if I recall. Nobody used AADs, so that was a wash. My Silly Suit cost something like $90 and I thought THAT was pure highway robbery. Ditto for the $10 prices to 12,500 that went into effect in 1980. What the fuck, did they think we were MADE out of money ?!? Reserve repacks went from $5 to $10 when the FAA changed the rules from 60 to 120 days and anybody who suggested paying somebody else to pack their main for them would've been pelted with beer bottles - and not all of them would've been empty bottles either. Sky sports ain't cheap - never have been & never will be. It's all a matter of setting your priorities. Something happened around that time too that had an effect on all of this... When the Wonderhog was introduced in 1974, it was something of a revolution (so were other rigs coming out around then like the SST, Eagle, and a few others). The original price I believe was $250.00. When we introduced the hand-deploy pilot chute, we increased the price (I think to $275 or $300). The 3-Ring introduction increased the price again. BUT.. the thing that really had an effect on pricing was the TSO requirements that "caught up" with the industry during that period. When the Wonderhog, SST, Eagle, and all the other new streamlined rigs were introduced in the mid '70s, it was a time of lax FAA involvement in our sport. NONE of them was TSOd at the time (and no one cared either they were so much better than what we had been jumping). When it became obvious the TSOs were going to be required, most of the smaller rig manufacturers folded up. The few making some real money spent it on the TSO process and eventually passed this on to the consumer. I believe that was the first major jump in price and increases after that were more on par with general costs of everything going up since then. I bought my first mil surplus rig complete for $150.00 which consisted of a B4 with belly wart, a C-9 28' cheapo and a 24' flat reserve. When I got my Wonderhog, I added a $50.00 surplus Navy Conical reserve to the 28. When the 28 had a lineover and burned up, I bought one of the first Strato-Stars sold for $425.00 (I believe, someone else in this thread mentioned $300.00, but I don't remember it being that low). Anyway, I think the prices of the rigs/canopies today are probably where they need to be if you want the manufacturers to be around next year... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Pretty sure no container came with it. Bill and I had to call to figure out the packing instructions. I think it was one of the very first to leave the factory. Yeah, it was certainly interesting to watch all that line pay out before the bag lifted off. Went to a slider about midway through 75. Put 650 jumps on that Strato-Star and never had anything but wonderful openings and at 135lbs at the time, nice landings too