lurch

Hmm.... Subtle. Very, very subtle. Thanks, Bill. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

you had to freeze-frame it to even catch the one direct reference (which Matrix fans, of course, did.) I thought I knew all the hidden stuff in the Matrix. What scene was this? I want to go look. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

...Clown shoes? CLOWN SHOES? owie. Been called a lot of things but never that. I'm at a loss to respond. Beaten. Defeated. I give. I bask in the shadow of your corpulence. Bleah. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

youre a goddamn shit eatin scum sucking motherfucking bud drinking wife beating son of a spermburger with everything on it. Infected, rejected, afflicted, maladicted clown punching ringmeat cockslap megalocephalic proteinoid lookin piece of dunnage. Watching your attempts to think is like watching a pack of cracked out thalidomide babies doing gymnastics in a pile of dogshit so sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up before I throw you a blanket party with a burlap sack and a baseball bat. Fucker. (try reciting this one aloud for the full effect.) Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Mossberg question: I owned two Mossbergs 6 years ago. Pawnshop refugees I have no idea the model numbers. Both 12 gauge. One was actually a "westernfield" which as I understand is a Mossberg relabelled for sale through Montgomery Ward years ago. The parts between the two were 100% interchangeable. Both shotguns were guaranteed to jam if you racked the slide with the gun tilted more than maybe 30 degrees to the left. I first discovered this the one and only time I ever actually needed it for defense...Fortunately my attackers were too busy running to hear the sound of the shell hanging up halfway out of the magazine. If either one wasn't held level it would jam fairly frequently. I had a friend who had a .410 gauge Mossberg, a cute tiny version of my 12, identical in every way but smaller. It included the same design failure and jammed the same way under the same conditions, I had to teach this guy how to dismantle his gun to get the shell out. Does a Mossberg 500 do this? Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

I won't argue their overall success rate is slightly higher. They have us on sheer numbers and they don't mind freely spending their own lives and the lives of their fellow muslims by bombing their own cities to bag a couple Americans a pop. But 99.whatever percent of those 1566 weren't bagged by the full frontal approach, anyway. Its been all attrition, and at a horrible exchange rate. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Zarq should just start having his guys jump headfirst into a large backyard chipper/shredder. It'd be as effective a way to fight a war and it'd save us a buttload of bullets and band-aids. I give em major props for dedication but man what a stupid way to fight... Gee, theres a whole LOT of Americans all together, the deadliest guys America could assemble and send in numbers, equipped with every state of the art toy of darkness they can afford. Think we can take em by frontal assault with a couple suicide troops and some AKs? Hell yeah! (shakes head sadly seeing evolution in action) Allah needs brighter servants. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Decision made. I'd like to thank everyone who spoke up, lot of detail, pros and cons. Verdict: I'll pass. Owner assembled it with a 218 raven and a 135 and to be honest it went together perfect. Once set up it looked great and with the dimensions filled out the pc pouch was self explanatory and instead of looking sketchy impressed me as virtually bulletproof. Needlessly elaborate, yes, but kinda cool and I'd trust it. Main cover flap looked crude and nonfunctional but stayed in place better than expected when tugged on...But no better than my own modified Vector's retainer. Liked the fit in some ways but it fit wrong and bit my shoulders which nixed it right there, and the riser covers and soft housings everywhere horrified me...THIS is a freefly rig? The reserve was a tight fit but there were these big open troughs down the outside of the reserve tray where the riser was simply exposed with no way to rearrange material to make it tight and solidly hide the risers. When I put it on the left cover popped open and poked me in the cheek with this triangular piece of what the hell did they do that for, but I hadn't checked it for snugness beforehand so can't blame the rig. All in all a great starter rig I would have bought if I didn't plan to freefly a lot. The slick finish is awesome-Bring it back! Mirage, Javelin, Vector are you listening? Cool rig but not the specs I want. Anybody wanna buy a slick Flexon? I know this guy.... Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

So this rig comes up, might want to buy it but have my doubts. Its a '91 R.I. Flexon f-5. Visually its in fine condition, almost no wear. It looks like a good deal but I haven't seen the rig assembled yet, just an empty container, mess of flaps and straps no canopies so its hard to judge yet how I'll like the way it goes together. I already did a search and read what has been said, which really isn't much other than first with rings, cypress service bulletin, good for freefly, fairly good rig. Specific doubts: The pilot chute and bridle stowing looks totally bizarre and needlessly elaborate to someone who jumps a simple vector 2. Some sort of weird semi-internal pc pouch looks like the bottom of the container is turned inside out with an added compartment and these dinky little tuck tabs to hold the whole arrangement closed. What is up with this? Is it not as sketchy as it looks? I just look at it and picture being in a sit with flaps pouches and bridle flopping everywhere... Comments? complaints? Praise? How well does it work in the field? Pain in the ass to pack or what? Is this one of those rigs like a reflex that has undesirable mojo trailing around after it? The construction looks alien as all hell and I've never seen one of these things before in 3 years of fartknocking around on a turbine-sized dz. Kinda wondered if there was a good reason for that. Canopy size: My next rig should fit between a 150 and a 135, maybe 125. I'm not going to want to go any smaller anytime soon. Will a F-5 fit this range? Airlocked canopies pack bigger right? I was thinking of going airlocked next canopy. Will an F5 fit that range of Samurai? Guy selling it says itll fit a reserve range raven2 218- 176-ish. Guy pointed out container will fit a smaller main better with a bigger reserve. A 218 is ridiculous overkill for my weight-I load a sabre2 170 at about .9- but I have no objection to an oversize reserve if I can fit the main I want and my current reserve in my first rig is a 218 anyway. Owners? Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Hey. Somebody tell Kallend its his turn to watch the gun over in the vigil thread. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Whose turn is it. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Thank you very very much for doing that. There is something terribly wrong in america and getting wronger. This Barroso lady is the alarm and the symptom and she is everywhere, she is spreading and there is very little any individual can do to stop it or fight it or even slow it down. What can be done, you just did. The dark side of the force is going to be really pissed off at you for that and the world just got noticeably brighter. I take my hat off pump my fist in the air and yell "YEAH!" If only there was a way to get fifty million americans to do shit like that all at once... The nation needs a million of you. Well done. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

What are you nuts? Just leaving that image of a gun lying around out in the open like that? Without even a gun lock? My god, man quick, hide it before some kid is terribly harmed by the sight, just like all the kids permanently damaged by the sight of Janet Jackson's breast! They might even get the idea that its ok to look at pictures of guns or even...(gasp) real guns. Or worst of all...real guns without gun locks. This is an emergency somebody DO something! Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Actually DM, for once I AM trying to be an activist... I'm disturbed enough to speak up and waste my time posting elaborately detailed thoughts in the ass end of cyberspace because someone who is supposedly sane enough to be in law enforcement has repeatedly posted his desire to see potheads "raped by bubba" (again including grannies, kids, housewives, anyone who can be labelled pothead)...I went back and looked at your posts and you expressed that wish in every pot-related posting I looked at although I did not read them all, the sampling clearly verified the sentiment. You do not care who gets put into your list...if they violate the law they are your rightful victim. Means you wish terrible terrible evil upon many many good authentically innocent people because they don't follow your rules. And you don't care how bad the harm you cause because anything you do to anyone is justified so long as you got a law says you can fuck em over any way you can. If THAT is the real face of authority thats scary as hell. In your desperation to serve law order and goodness you've become representative of the only real authentic evil that exists... The desire to grievously hurt someone else due to their refusal to obey your will or the will of the nonsentient logic structure you serve. The worst part is you don't even see whats wrong with that. This is why our system is fatally diseased...because its people like that who want that power and work hardest and succeed best at getting it. Anyhow, toke on, Just don't show up in a court I'm the DA in (after I get thru with law school), lest you see first hand the potential consequences of your crimes. Aside from the thinly-veiled "I'm after you" implications there, the pomposity and sheer absolute you-are-subject-to-my-will-as-the-natural-order-of-things arrogance of that statement is so far beyond appalling its crossed the border to over-the-top black comedy with a healthy dose of tragedy for all your future victims. "...of your crimes", indeed! I could dig up and spout statistics about what percentage of the population tokes up on a daily basis which could be argued all day but bottom line is stoners are common as speeders and underage drinkers. You apparently consider this vast population of people, mostly good, some bad, all walks of life to be fair prey for the most inhumane psychotic treatment and the only thing restraining you is procedure. Its not even personal, like a programmed assassinbot I can just see you turn away indifferent at the last second because the law changed and your programming no longer allowed you to terminate this lawbreaker so unfortunately they're not a valid target now, how disappointing. Crime means you did something wrong. Harm none, no crime. Right and wrong are not defined by the law they are defined by human suffering and human joy and the deliberate cultivation of either. "your crimes"... By your definition half the population deserves prison and, as you have repeatedly expressed, rape. This is diseased, a corrupted memetic structure just as authentically evil as islamic fundamentalism demanding you die for allah because He Is Your God. Drunkmonkey, I gotta tell you you're making law enforcement professionals look really really bad if you're a representative sample and have been stating your mind accurately. You don't want justice and law, you want victims without consequences to yourself. I had more respect for and less fear of the legal system BEFORE you spoke on its behalf. Before, I didn't think there was vicious intent behind a lot of laws and always figured hey I don't kill rape harm or steal, I harm none and, having a fairly clean conscience, don't fear the law or the state or the police. Figured maybe the law's sometimes a bit fucked but overall its trying to help. Now I wonder. After this exchange I'm thinking with good guys like these, who needs bad guys? Could someone else in law enforcement please speak up and tell me this is not the dominant mentality in the field? I am friends with a couple officers around here and they're both awesome people but I don't know enough to be able to generalize about cops and law enforcement types the way drunkmonkey does stoners. This is actually the first case I've ever seen personally of a wannabe authority figure who seems to view half the species as prey, criminals or victims in waiting, or all of the above. Are there really that many authority types who are THAT cold-bloodedly vicious? DM is not helping my impression of the type, here. Edited to add: Sorry bout the soapbox rant folks. Theres something about the "just punish them harder till they comply" mentality that pisses me off when I see it expressed. What part of "don't do bad shit to good people" is being overlooked here? The harder you try to force righteousness the wronger the outcome. I cannot believe someone who intends to be a district attorney cannot comprehend this. Keep beating your head on that brick wall, some day it'll go away.... Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

What I think of them is irrelevant. If the law was repealed, then logic dictates they would no longer be criminals. Now THAT is scary. A mind which believes the treatment of citizens and brutality or lack thereof are subject to legal whim and nothing else? Suddenly the slammic fundies are looking more sensible. So. One day the law says you have to sentence some 19-year old to prison-bitchdom which you have expressed glee about. You, with the law on your side, grin in happy anticipation of the pain of another which is entirely justified in your heart because they broke a rule. This person broke your Law and is therefore clearly deserving of such fate. But before you get the satisfaction of actually seeing this kid raped, the law changes and suddenly your victim is free, no longer a criminal. The kid comes to see you. Now explain, to his face and the face of his mother, that it was ok for you to do everything in your power to get the kid caged and hopefully raped because the law said its ok for you to do so and that your only regret is not what you almost did to the kid but that you're no longer permitted to harm the kid because the law says he ain't a bad guy anymore. This may be the most matter of fact personification of raw uncaring inhuman evil I've ever seen. Please. I'd like to be a fine upstanding citizen here. explain. I must be mistaken. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

1. It is illegal. So is speeding. I don't see you advocating the rape of anyone doing 76 mph in a 65 zone. Why the inconsistency? So is a 20 year 11-month-and-29-day old individual with a beer. You wanna have them raped for disobedience too? 2. Either follow the law or risk the consequences. See above. 3. If you wish it to be legal, change the law. Chuckle, snort, snicker. Tell you what. You drive 65. Break the law get raped by bubba. Don't like it? go ahead, follow your own advice, go ahead and change it. What, you can't? Don't have the money? The influence? The time? The patience to spend 50 years and a virtual economy of black money to change the system the way the system says you're supposed to? Hey we got the best justice system money can buy and you get exactly as much justice as you can afford to pay for. There's an awful lot of people profiting hugely from imprisoning the harmless so you got to somehow overcome all that, too, if you wanna change the system. Vested interests and all that. Politicians who have to please the puritan vocal minority and not be seen as soft on drugs or crime or whatever. What, you can't do that either? Then why do you insist everyone else be limited to that method? You lack the courage of your convictions sir, or you would voluntarily restrain yourself to exactly the speed limit at ALL times and volunteer for prison bitch duty if you found you had violated it. After all, Its The Law. Don't like it? Change it. 4. If you are caught and convicted, You are a criminal. When the law is insane and declares good people criminal the label fits but ceases to be a negative description. Someday the law will require you to surrender your firearms for the good of the people. Refuse and you too can magically become an evil lawbreaker. ...The punishment you recieve is what the law and the judge have decided is what is warranted for you. Neither the law nor the judge is competent or qualified to decide jack shit for me. I enforce this position by not permitting either to enforce their will upon me any more than I would a religious fundamentalist. I do what I want, live well, help many, harm none. Fuck the law. I go by Right and Wrong which are determined by the simple question: does it harm none? 5. People are murdered in trying to ship you your illegal substance. You have their blood on your hands. Again you know nothing of which you speak. I will correct you. Most local stoners everywhere get their stonage from friends who either grow it themselves or got it from the grower. You know, the black economy? The pot available around here is either brought down from Canada or grown in Vermont, Maine or northern New Hampshire or grown locally by those who prefer fresh high quality buds. Really low quality industrial grade mexican stuff transported in 50-pound bricks from Cali is available from south of here through various channels, local punks in Mass. industrial cities, Lowell, Lawrence, etc. Nobody's being killed over market share on crappy weed from that direction and nobody's getting killed bringing a quarter pound of Vermont's best and sharing it out among friends. In fact, now that I think about it there's an astonishing LACK of violence related to pot around here. I can't remember the last time someone was killed over a pot shipment within 500 miles of here. So much for your bloodshed. I ain't got SHIT on my hands friend. Nobody is murdered over an ounce of pot grown in the suburbs and consumed 25 miles away by a friend of a friend of the grower. There is such a thing as personal judgement. I'm sure I could choose to use drugs associated with violent people and bloodshed but you know, crack heroin cocaine and crystal meth just leave me cold. Never touched any of em. Ugh. I disdain their use not because of the law but because I do not choose the risk of the use of such powerful chemicals. My own health is not the greatest and that shit would probably fuck me up. So I decline. Your distillation has been dismantled. And you still haven't answered the original question about what happens to the status of all those prison rape candidates the moment pot is legalized. You still haven't explained how someone can become or cease to be rape-deserving scum depending on the legality of pot and the current legislative whims of the state. See earlier post: Yes or No? Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Oh and you haven't answered the question. According to your specifically expressed opinion the whole subject is absolute. Its The Law. Period, no negotiation or individual judgement. Got a problem, go through the system, an approach that has obviously worked really well for the tens of millions of americans who've been trying to do it the system's way for the last forty years. You have expressed glee at the thought of any stoner being hauled away to be gang raped in a cage because they do not consider themselves bound by the Law you serve. Had it occurred to you that this includes grannies smoking pot to beat glaucoma and avoid permanent blindness. This includes 15 year old kids, hanging out after school in the back woods trails enjoying the company of friends. This includes the 18-year old mother of two working through business school and moonlighting as a waitress at the local denny's. This includes the guy halfway through medical school on his way to a career as a neurosurgeon who sparks up on a weekend to momentarily relieve the stress that accompanies his drive and ambition. This includes your own child and anyone else's the day you catch him/her out behind the garage puffin with peers. Now. The question, again: If they legalize dope tomorrow, will all those lazy-ass lawbreaking pot smoking scum deserving of prison rape suddenly instantly become perfectly acceptable fine upstanding citizens undeserving of such hideous abuse because the law decided they aren't criminals anymore? Yes or no? Because if its yes, that means your idea of right and wrong is entirely subject to the whims of the state. And if its no, how do you justify the attitude? Would you be as draconian to alcohol users if they brought back booze prohibition? Exact same argument applies. Suddenly you're condemning an awful lot of people there amigo. You sure you wanna be like that? Not much love in the life of a puritan, friend. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Although I doubt you'll change it, as most stoners are not organized enough to do so... Laughing my ass off. "most stoners"... Did you ever even once check the veracity of the generalizations you use to judge and/or persecute people? Most stoners I know don't fit your rigid little picture my friend. Most stoners I know have steady, well paid jobs, solid home lives, drivers licenses, 401k's, the works. They are real estate salesmen, computer programmers, industrial automation technicians and software consultants. They are directors of test operations for semiconductor wafer development fabrication facilities and aeronautical engineers and aldermen and chemical vapor deposition optics manufacture specialists. Doctors nurses and CPAs. A lot of those stoners are skydivers which right there is completely at odds with your image... Not too many disorganized lazy ass criminals have the balls the drive the skill the resources and resourcefulness necessary to become skydivers in the first place or even survive the training necessary to become one. The two descriptions are mutually exclusive. Now is your rigid picture open to amendment or do you still think no stoner is organized enough to be any of those things I just described? Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Disagree. Dissuade the user from further use via punishment, the clientele/demand for drugs dries up, along with the inherent violence... ...Right. Obviously we're a fast learner. It's The Law, right? That excuses anything. They break the law, cage the joint-smoking scum. As you have so eloquently put numerous times in other posts on the subject, the best place for a lazy-ass lawbreaking pothead is in a cage being gang raped by bubba, which is of course an appropriate punishment for such heinous dangerous brutal crimes as getting a buzz with friends without the permission of the government. Oh and lets not forget medical uses. Its still a crime right? So lets go round up every cancer patient who uses the stuff as painkiller and appetite stimulant. Fuck the chemo-heads they're breaking the law, sufficiently draconian punishment will bring those cancer freaks to heel quickly unless they too want to enjoy state hospitality with unpleasant roommates. After all we know pots a gateway drug associated with lots of inherent violence I mean hell, look at all those savage armed and dangerous bald headed cancer patients and inhumanly violent stoners sitting around relaxing having a good time with friends. You just know they're waiting for an excuse to go medieval in public, they only LOOK like happy harmless people, they're really evil wicked violent criminal reefer addicts and should be shot. We learned all this back in the early 20th century from such obviously unbiased scientific films as "reefer madness." Now alcohol IS legal though and nobody has a problem with that which begs the question: If they legalize dope tomorrow, will all those lazy-ass lawbreaking pot smoking scum deserving of prison rape suddenly instantly become perfectly acceptable fine upstanding citizens undeserving of such hideous abuse because the law decided they aren't criminals anymore? And what are you going to do about the 700,000 teenagers in cages for their "crimes"? Let them go and say sorry we redefined "bad" and now you're off the hook, pot isn't a crime anymore,sorry about destroying your life taking all your money and of course the raped in a cage thing? Sorry we had to do that to you, but Its The Law. Break the law lose all human rights and become disposable state property and drunkmonkey here will gleefully enjoy the prospect of another youngster being gang raped by bubba for the crime of deciding for himself what to smoke and not letting the state have its say. Hey, fuck it, while we're at it lets keep it up. We can dissuade all kinds of users via more and more punishment. Whatever it takes to enforce the will of the state and exert control over the behavior of others, right? How about: Underage posession of alcohol or tobacco: They're breaking the law just as bad as the potheads. Imprison them till they're legal to posess. That'll learn em. Up till you're 21, get caught with a beer you're a criminal on drunkmonkey's prison rape list. Turn 21, voila. Instant law abiding citizen suddenly no punishment is required, go about your business.... This seems logical. Sieg Heil! Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

oh hell I just don't feel like starting shit today. Deleted. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

re: your above paragraph being a christian has nothing to do... etc. I've been hearing religious people say stuff like this my whole life. A lot of it seems based on a cause-effect assumption similar in nature to astrology. Astrology is based on the notion that somehow the positions of the planets control and determine aspects of my life which can be predicted by judging those planets against a scaling system somebody thought up centuries ago before we even knew what planets were. Try as I might, I can't see any detectable connection between the position of saturn and my career prospects in the coming month. Christianity is based on the notion that somehow everyone alive has committed acts which piss off the creator of the universe. These acts are classified as "sins" according to a scaling system somebody thought up centuries ago before we even understood anything about the planet, or even that it WAS one, or anything about its structure and construction. Somehow we are supposed to need to be saved from these crimes. The christ character central to the myth was a preacher common to the times who was executed in the fashion of the times by the local government with the hands-off endorsement of Rome's local representative magistrate, some asshole name of Pilate. Rome was in the habit of indulging the locals in minor matters such as these to aid in maintaining stability in fringe areas especially areas where preachers frequently surfaced, often bringing instability and rebellion with them. This preacher let himself be killed, deliberately. Passive suicide. Supposedly he did this to pay for everyone else's crimes against the creator. "Died for our sins." " so that you would not perish." Huh? This is the part where they lose me, just like astrology with the idea of planets connected to my life according to when I was born. First off, whats with the "would not perish" bit? Basic fact of reality: everything living is mortal and will die. Me. You. Your favorite housepet. No exceptions. As undeniably realistic of an unavoidable fact as the crunch of an suv into a bridge abutment at 88 mph. No matter how avid a believer in christ-sponsored immortallity the driver may be, he's dead. Even if you grant the notion of sin as having objective validity, what does the politically motivated state sponsored execution of a pacifist preacher from millennia ago have to do with any crime I may commit? The idea is so far away from having cause and effect validity as to be blatantly fictitious. The guy died 2000 years ago. He can't save me from a bad day let alone any objectively real quantifiable hazard. Why am I supposed to believe this mythology in preference to any other equally realistic ones such as astrology, witchcraft, satanism, zoroastrianism animism or haitian voodoo? Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Bill.... You can be legally blind, of very low intelligence, and have no legs or one arm and still be a safe skydiver. In fact, I know people who meet all those criteria, and are safe skydivers. You know a very safe blind, stupid, legless one armed skydiver? Who is it? I gotta jump with this guy.... Thats one determined motherfucker.... How does he flare? Does he have a prosthesis for the missing arm? Hook turns, every time.... Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Um, what the fuck is that? And where can I get one? Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

In years of on and off lurking I have never seen anyone so thoroughly smacked down so badly as you just were, Propilot. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Ok. I can't bitch anyore. Now THAT is a big suit. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.