pms07

Sparky, I have the recall notice still in my rigger log and know the range/number of canopies recalled; correct, it was 721. What I said, perhaps not clearly enough, was there were one or two others that were jumped and found to be bad...prior to the recall being implemented...over that gap of over 4 months from the one that I found until the recall was sent out... Clear now? Pat

Well, I believe the history you provide makes it sound like PF squared away the problem quickly. Afraid that's not completely accurate. The reserve ride I had was on canopy # R3-3046, if my rigger log is accurate. The jump I used it on happened over 4 months before the recall. I was on the phone the day of the reserve ride several times with PF and many more over the next couple of weeks as we jumped the canopy again, as well as other Swift reserves for comparison. The recall notice, I believe is dated sometime in January 86...4+ months after the jump in question. I heard there were at least one or two other bad canopies with the same problem, in the recalled range of serial #s, in that time gap as well. I cannot substantiate that however. Anyway, I suppose my logbooks and memory could be inaccurate...but that's how I remember it.

Yup, original Vector didn't have a BOC for sure. The pilot chute pouch on the original was actually on the front of the legstrap iirc, then migrated to the back of the legstrap.

As far as that little Swift reserve problem, I got to experience it first hand packed in a prototype Talon while the tso was still being worked in 86, when my main mal'd. Hardest landing I ever walked away from. Not being too bright...after discussing with Elek and the guys at PF...and Sandy at R.I. who owned the rig and canopies...me and John Morrison both jumped that particular Swift reserve again, set-up as a main in an effort to try and help figure out the problem. Luckily, no permanent injuries. Anyway, mine was the first "live" reserve ride on Talon and we ID'd a problem with a large number of Swift reserves, resulting in a significant recall by PF. So, we bought beer...

Actually, the Swift reserve and Swift main are two entirely different canopies. The reserve is a great canopy and landed fairly well for that generation. The main? Not so much...as far as great landings...in spite of the fact that it is a larger canopy. The reserve was converted to a main canopy by some as it packed small and landed fairly well. Anyway, the Swift reserve was a great canopy IMO and I've lots of jumps on them as both a main and reserve. The Swift main was a POS...and I've never seen one used as a reserve. pms

I'm sure that's a Gargano design though am not familiar with that particular model. I owned 3 of Bill's canopies back in the 80s and jumped many others...including the Accutron. Anyone know where Bill is now? pms

Micah, I've been following this and finally feel a need to comment. In this discussion it appears that it's not what you don't know that's the scary part. Rather, it's what you think you know for certain, but are (dead?) wrong about, that's scary. You need to open your mind a bit... Curious; were you going to address the questions Ian asked? pms

You should read this then. . The swage didn't fail with that 1987 SB. Actually, the pin was not swaged at all and had no tool markings on it...on the rig in question that generated the bulletin . There were two people present when the problem was initially discovered, the owner (a recent US Team member) of the rig and myself. Both of us are riggers and I can tell you there was about 45 seconds of stunned silence when the pin slipped off the end of the reserve cable. Not your typical day in the loft... pms

Do you mean Wheat Ridge? Yeah, that's the place. Getting senile here...

It occured, unfortunately; the 3 jumpers killed in the CRW wrap at Wheatland Colorado years ago were Elmer Miller, Les Smith and Bob Vance. All 3 were good friends and very accomplished skydivers. The 5 cell referenced was not a Swift main canopy. Elmer jumped a Swift reserve set up as his main canopy (not real unusual back then because the Swift reserve packed smaller and landed at least as good as the Swift main...).

Let me know what you need. I have lots of old papers and files around here somewhere from being meet director and USPA BOD collegiate committee chairman during that timeframe.

Were they cannulas issued to the person - permanently, they took in freefall... Or did they take them out at the last second and put on their helmet? Or how? Full face, open face? Germs from person to person with something up their nose? I know this is entering the lame-ass excuse part, but it is not likely that skydivers are going to buy and maintain their own cannula for a higher-altitude boogie when the simpler solution of a tube that you can put near your mouth/nose to suck in the O2 works just as well. The point I was trying to make, if you want users to use it, make it simple, stupid, and idiot proof... (Yes, the Air Force folks you are talking about are special kinds of idiots, better than us civilian idiots, and are issued all their gear for free and have dedicated planes they always jump out of.) But - you are right, there is a way.... Sparky got it correct...cannulas are really not all that difficult. Yes, everyone should have their own cannula and they are not very expensive. I have several that are 10-15 years old at least and still work great for both flying or jumping. Putting your helmet on over the cannula is simple and the way to go in my view. Unplug and then skydive when ready to exit. Doesn't matter what type of helmet you wear. Or take the cannula off just prior to exit if you want. How difficult is that? To me, sharing a cannula might be similar to sharing a condom. Knock yourself out if that's what you think is appropriate however. You are correct, you have entered the lame-ass excuse arena. If cannulas aren't simple and idiot proof, I don't know what is. I won't comment on the idiot comments about the air force other than to say...if you can't figure out how to use a cannula it's real unlikely you will survive skydiving for any significant amount of time....

Who the hell's gonna lend me a couple million, I can't make a 182 profitable! And that's kinda the point. Besides, if you are only coming to DZ because it's cheap or free, you're way too dollar focused. I'm just trying to help you focus on your philosophy. Cheap or free jumps aren't a bad thing and if you want to run a DZ that doesn't "whore" after money...it seemed like a logical to plan me. Big planes and competitive jump prices, a living wage for professional instructors and DZOs...won't ruin the sport. If I were only going to the DZ for cheap jumps I would have probably quit 30 years ago. Lighten up...

Okay, let me know when you have a couple of million $ invested in aircraft and facilities (think places like Eloy, Perris, Z-Hills, etc...). I'll come by for the cheap or free jumps you plan to offer. I'll show you enthusiasm...

I believe that's the team t-shirt from Perris 4-way team, COD Impact. Team members maybe were Lizard Waltzer, Pat Swovelin, Perry Stone(?) and that's all I remember. Anyway, I've got one of the t-shirts here somewhere that Lizard gave me years ago.

I've jumped at both Bruchsal and Schweighofen and either is a good choice. You are within a reasonable drive of Strasbourg also if you want to cross the river and jump in France. Do a google as that's the best way to get current DZ information in europe while traveling and connect with locals if you don't know people in the areas, at least in my experience.

Is that Lizard? I am pretty sure Lizard flew back seat in an F-4. Yeah, now that I think about it he flew F-4's for the Marines. The photo showes an F-105 and those were Air Force only. Oops! Jack Jack, Correct...Lizard was a RIO in USMC F-4s and never wore the oak leaf cluster rank. He was a captain, then reverted WO after Nam. schrauf

Jim Hotze

Correct...the Swift recall was for a specific range of serial numbers on the original swift reserve only. It was none of the above causes...rather a manufacturing error that was not identifiable by comparing with a good canopy or checking line length and trim. I discovered the symptoms of the problem on a reserve ride in Colorado and was lucky to survive it. The canopy was almost uncontrollable and stalled without warning or with minimal toggle input. That particular reserve belonged to Sandy Reid/R.I. (it was also the first actual reserve use other than test jumps on a Talon) and after consulting with Sandy and ParaFLite (Elek Puskas) we set it up as a main to jump it again. Same shit, different day...sent it back to ParaFlite and a bit later came the recall. Apparently there were a couple of similar incidents that helped identify the problem around the same timeframe. Anyway, kind of scary to look up at your reserve, release the brakes and go to full flight, only to have the canopy stall with the toggles in the keepers... pms

Does it matter? They still died under a good canopy. The only reason we wear a parachute when we skydive is to land safely so we can do it again. Sparky It doesn't matter because in many cases the exact type of accident is really a function of the circumstances in play but related to the bigger problem; low turn, swoop accident, panic yaddi yaddi, canopy collision...all can be symptoms of the vague or not enforced pattern rules, lack of flight discipline, poor canopy control and piloting skills we see every weekend. Nick's post is worth reading and giving some serious thought. For me, I jump less now than ever over the past 32 years. Family and career reasons are a factor but the risk of dying under my open and perfectly functioning main canopy at some drop zones is an even bigger factor...

Fred, That's correct....Greg Wirth was a friend from when I lived and jumped in Wisconsin in the mid 1970s. Gary Hannah was the pilot. pms

Sparkmeister, It's not a Volplane...I jumped that POS back in the 70s and this ain't it...

There is nothing wrong with feeling this way. It seems there are a lot of smart asses that think they know your situation better than you do. Customer service is important. Statements about the skydiving industry not being like McDonalds or PD refusing to run their demo program like a mail order program are in fact part of the problem. We are all grown adults and capable of making our own decisions on what we choose to fly. The people at PD don't know anything about you and shouldn't be in the business of "rating" skydivers abilities. What is the point of checking references for a demo anyway? Anyone can use "fake" references and if someone bounces, PD could get sued because they didn't check the references properly. It's opening a can of worms that could be totally avoided if they would just treat skydivers like adults and have a general waiver of liability, just like the one you sign at the DZ. This is so funny that it has to be a troll. Or else Dead4Life is living in another world. Just my two cents...

I've jumped PD canopies and dealt with PD since the mid-late 80s and your experience is unlike mine or anyone else I've encountered. PD has a great record of personal satisfaction in my experience but I've only owned 11 of their canopies and sold another 20-25 so maybe I'm missing something. "no one likes PD" Get real... "no regards to an individuals needs?" Who are you talking with? "like trying to deal with a corporate lawyer" ? Who are you talking with and can you get more specific about the circumstances, questions, your experience level and what you want to demo? Might I also suggest you park your attitude... pms

I'm pretty sure the Tension Free CRW team was from that neck of the woods. Feisty, Daryl, Bob ...those guys? Although I'm not sure they were farmers. Russ That's Feisty, Rocco, Darryl, and Bob (I think that was the original 4?)--Tension Free CRW team. Feisty ran a DZ in Glendive back before he was a National and World CRW Champion. Last I heard he was still running a DZ in Missouri in spite of wealth and fame earned as a competitor.