pajarito

I’m saying that I don’t know. I think it might be either or both depending on different situations. Even if one has the natural tendency to be homosexual, however, he/she still makes the choice to act or not act on that impulse. That is what differentiates us from animals. I have the natural tendency to be an adulterer. However, I choose not to act on that impulse and be faithful to my wife. I know we’ve been down this road already.

I’m sorry to hear about your loss. Nothing worldly can replace that. I am a Christian first and foremost regardless of denomination. As for denomination, I hold a lot of Presbyterian (PCA (conservative) and not PCUSA (liberal split)) views as well as Baptist. I currently belong to a Southern Baptist church, however due to my Presbyterian views, I consider myself to be more of a Reformed Baptist.

They're animals. Of course, they don't decide not to follow their animal insticts. We're humans and have that cognitive ability.

You can't prove biological origin just like I can't prove that it's all a product of one's environment. It is, however, a choice to act on one's impulse however you cut the cake. You may think that view unfair but you can't deny that they make the choice to live that way.

sort of like modern cosmology was 'seen' as wrong by christians for ages before the church apologized and admited they were wrong, or do you still believe in the crystaline spheres? I don't know what church you think I belong to. I'm not Catholic by the way. I don't adhere to their policies or decisions. I'm reformed Baptist. I don't discount science for religion. I believe it supports my beliefs. I just look at it from the other side.

no. your separatedfrom God because you adopt dogma that says you are, and you chose to believe it, nothing more.... that doesnt make it true.. I am not, have never been, and never will be separated from God, no matter what your divisive literature says.. Good for you....drive on!

My oldest son is 8. I also have a daughter who is 5 and another son who is 2. I also shield them from what I consider to be obscene on TV, on the radio, in video games, in magazines/books, etc. It’s one of my jobs as a parent. I’ll explain the complexities of adult life to them when I feel they’re old enough and ready. He does love you regardless. That doesn’t mean that he wants you to continue to sin. He does not love sin. You don’t have to. He did it for you. He expects you to love the Lord with all of your heart, soul, mind, and strength and to love your neighbor as yourself.

You don’t have your own sense of right or wrong? Are you intolerant of me and other Christians? You kind of also described yourself. I guess we’re all bigots. I have made comments defending people who wish to protest the homosexual movement and also have made comments stating my opposition to homosexuals entering into “marriage.” As for intolerance, I disagree. I disagree with their choice of lifestyle but I am tolerant of it. In our society, it is their right to choose their lifestyle and it’s none of my business. Their ability to live the way they want has no bearing on whether they should be allowed to enter into “marriage”, however. For my kids sake…yes. I would try and shield them from that. Although, I would try and shield them from any indecency until they’re old enough to handle those sensitive and emotional issues on their own. I do think homosexuality is wrong. I do not, however, judge them. That’s not my job. I’m not “judging” their lifestyle to be wrong. God is. If I’m biased because I take the words of the Bible as truth and try and follow them then I guess I am biased. You know very well what I’m talking about when I say that I can’t follow the law of the Bible by myself. It has nothing to do with hypocrisy or selectivity. I just admit that I need help. I’ve explained that to you and everyone else here several times in my previous posts. Briefly…we are sinners by nature (imperfect) and fall short of the grace of God. We are separated from God by sin. God became the person of Jesus Christ and paid the price for our sin with his own blood sacrifice. Therefore, those who accept this gift of forgiveness and reconciliation are saved by the grace of God through belief in his son, Jesus. We are still imperfect, however, and are in need of help to live our lives more like Jesus. It’s a “work in progress.”

And you choose which guidelines to follow. You are choosing to be biased against homosexuals. Stop blaming the bible for your bigotry. I think you've completely missed any point I've ever tried to make concerning the Bible and this topic. How am I a bigot for thinking that homosexuality is wrong? I don't in any way hate, judge, or look down on homosexuals. They're people just like me. Thanks for the personal insult, though.

Oh, I didn't say "not" put them to death. I was just saying that they should remain under our control and system of justice.

The US is essentially the governing body there until soverienty is turned over. It happened when that was the case. I don't think they should be tried under Iraqi law. I think these guys, if we get them, are ours and should be brought back to the US for trial. This was a crime committed during US control and to a US citizen. I don't think they should be beheaded or anything like that. As with the prison abuse issue, we're better than that.

Your primary news source must be Aljazeera.

GOOD POST!

That picture surely is a repost I am not sure wether you just want to ignore my post or you truly didn´t understand it, in case it is the last i will rephrase it. If you follow ALL the guidelines in the Bible. I respect you for you believes and willpower (i would still think you are way wrong though) If you disregard some of the law like forbidden animals, working on sabbath, etc you are giving your own interprtation of the bible, hence it is not the God´s word and therefore not a truism. You would just be using the bible to back up your personal and maybe flawed points of view. I can't follow all the "guidelines" given in the Bible to the letter. It's not possible for me. I can only do the best I can with the help of God. This is a repost of mine from way back. I kept it because this keeps coming up. It also ties in nicely with homosexuality. The commands of the Old Testament are divided generally into moral law, ceremonial law and civil law. The moral law (e.g., the 10 commandments) remain in effect and few people would question that. The ceremonial law (sacrificing 2 oxen, etc.) was fulfilled in Jesus' sacrificial death and the New Testament teaches that it is not binding anymore. The civil law (stoning for adultry, etc.) was the law of the nation of Israel, which operated as a Theocracy, and is not the civil law of any other nation. The argument about gay marriage is a deep, dark hole in the ground from which there is no escape until there is some common ground from which the discussions can spring. I can agree that we're not going to stone homosexuals, just as Jesus didn't pick up a stone and start stoning the woman caught in adultry. Jesus didn't condone her conduct (in fact, he said to her "Go and sin no more"); it's simply that everyone in the crowd (other than Jesus) was also guilty under Jesus' standard (if you've looked at a woman and lusted after her in your heart, you've committed adultry). Interestingly, stoning for adultry was not acceptable under Roman law at that time and Jesus would have actually violated the civil law if he agreed to the stoning. If one doe not agree that homosexual behavior is morally wrong, then an argument about whether society should accept homosexual marriage is pretty much going to have to sit on the shifting sands of whatever is "acceptable" to society. I think the past 30 or 40 years have demonstrated exactly how quickly society will slide down that slippery slope - e.g., euthanasia, child abuse, pedophilia, pornography, divorce, abortion, spousal abuse, murder, assault, etc. Depending on the topic, most folks, when confronted with the ugly statistics, will agree that we need to draw some fast and hard lines as to what conduct is criminal. Unfortunately, without a biblical basis, we're stuck with the "whatever society wants" standard. Bottom line is the goal of the homosexual community isn’t just marriage and state benefits. It’s the normalization of an obscene practice. Define marriage as the union of one man and one woman and be done with it.

- Stating that interracial marriage is wrong has no Biblical basis whatsoever. - Stating that homosexuality is wrong absolutely does.

It’s the parents job to instruct their child about sexuality when they get old enough. It’s also their job to instruct them about morality and how that relates to sexuality. I just believe that you, as a parent, have to protect your kids as much as possible when they’re young and impressionable. There’s a lot out there that I don’t believe they should be exposed to until they’ve had time to mature enough to handle it. I don’t condemn gays and do not advocate anyone else doing so.

What I meant was how many are for or against same-sex marriage in Germany? What’s the “general view” or average opinion? Kein Problem (is that correct?) It’s not your job or mine to tell him anything concerning his sexual preference. That’s his parent’s job. I’d treat him like anyone else. I’d be friends with him. If I was you, I wouldn’t give up friendship with his mother. My kids are still very young and influential, however. I’d have a problem with his discussing his chosen lifestyle or feelings to the like with my sons (or daughter). I’d also have a problem with that kind of influence in my home. It doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t like the kid. I also wouldn’t want a person in an openly adulterous heterosexual lifestyle to express his/her views in my house or to my children.

However, seeing as how this topic seems to be split down the middle nationwide (speaking of the US; I see you're from Germany), I wouldn't say my views are "extremist" concerning this. I'd just say they differ from you and about half of everybody else in my country. Maybe they're "extremist" compared to the general view of homosexuality in Germany. I don't know that.

Thanks christelsabine! Now, I'm an extremist who needs glasses.

PhillyKev: I'm not attempting to take anything out of context. However, I'm also not going to get into another Biblical argument with you. We've already been through that (about 18 pages worth). I was just stating my personal views. I also said that I didn't think the argument over same-sex marriage should include religion at all. I said that it didn't need to and shouldn't in reference to its legitimacy in government. christelsabine: Your last sentence is a personal attack and I would expect it to be deleted. That is if there's fairness in this moderation. This thread should not be hijacked by turning it into another religious debate. Been there...done that.

Really? Considering there was no word for homosexuality in hebrew or greek back then, I find that a little hard to believe. There need not be a specific word for it because it is described in detail in the verse I just quoted. Call it what you will. It's still wrong.

This spells it out pretty clearly and doesn't leave much for misinterpretation. I believe homosexuality will be seen as wrong 50 years from now by Christians just like it is now. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator – who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. Romans 1:24-32

I doubt it. It's stated very clearly. Both that homosexuality is wrong and is an abomination before God and that a marriage/family consists of one man and one woman. Some things in the Bible are easy to misinterpret. Others are most definitely not.

Sorry, forgot to link the article. http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4119.asp

Ezra 9 - After these things had been done, the leaders came to me and said, "The people of Israel, including the priests and the Levites, have not kept themselves separate from the neighboring peoples with their detestable practices, like those of the Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Ammonites, Moabites, Egyptians and Amorites. They have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons, and have mingled the holy race with the peoples around them. And the leaders and officials have led the way in this unfaithfulness." . . . After all that has come upon us for our evil deeds and our great guilt-though you, our God, have made less of our sinfulness than it deserved and have allowed us to survive as we do-- shall we again violate your commandments by intermarrying with these abominable peoples? Would you not become so angered with us as to destroy us without remnant or survivor? O LORD, God of Israel, you are just; yet we have been spared, the remnant we are today. Here we are before you in our sins. Because of all this, we can no longer stand in your presence. ---------------------------------- West Virginia Supreme Court: "Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix." Misinterpreted and taken completely out of context. The passage refers to the Jews' past failure to separate themselves from the sinful societies around them which led them into idolatry and immorality. It has nothing to do with race or keeping them separate. This linked article also gives a good explanation as to why preventing interratial marriage has absolutely no Biblical foundation.