pajarito

I've head it depends on your definition of 'served.' Just as vague as Clinton's definition of 'sex.'

Now that was a fair analysis. I agree. DrunkMonkey, you do have issues.

Not that it matters in the slightest in regard to the point we're trying to make here but I do have an "Uncle Sam" poster from the late 80's. I agree that it's probably mostly nostalgic nowadays. I kept one as a souvenir. I don't even remember where I originally got it from. My Dad may have acquired it originally.

We have moved on a little since WWII in reference to patriotism, religion, personal responsibility, duty, honor, work ethic, etc. More so in the negative direction, though. Those men and women from the WWII era have my deepest respect Now this is petty. In war and when you're a front-line troop, successfully engaging and defeating the enemy is your job. That job includes "killing" the enemy as efficiently as possible. It's an ugly but very necessary business. You're expected to do it better than the guy you're up against. Otherwise, you lose. You're success in "killing" the enemy saves lives, increases security, and wins wars. I originally used the word “impressive” in reference to the helicopter’s ability to deliver fire and your naïve statements. I also made mention of the skillful “art of war.” I also mentioned “success” in reference to the engagement. I did make mention of “satisfaction”, however, not in reference to taking the life of another human being. I’m never “happy” about seeing or doing that, however, I know that it is necessary in certain situations. I said “satisfaction” in reference to “doing your job well.” More specifically, because, by doing so, it saves the lives of our guys and accomplishes the mission. The enemy dying is just an ugly reality you’re going to have to get over if you’re going to live in this world. I’m “satisfied” with the “killing” of as many of the enemy as possible because it preserves my country and way of life.

Sleep well...

I'm sure that's EXACTLY what that looks like to you and many others here. I know, because I've seen them up close. They're all over the place over there. Those pilots have trained eyes to detect them from afar. That's part of their job.

The better I am at my job, the safer you are back here and the less of our guys get killed over there. It's a terrible thing but there is a lot of satisfaction in doing your job well. Especially, when your friend's lives are on the line.

Does this look familiar? With the cover in the back swinging open? I'm just saying that's what it looks like to me in the video. I guess the pilots thought the same.

They killed exactly who they wanted to. They destroyed exactly which vehicles they wanted to. None of our guys died in the process. I call that success! They're helicopter pilots. What do you expect them to do? Lean out the side with their side arms and take pot shots at them? Would that make it fair considering the enemy is brandishing a surface-to-air missile?

Oh...however horrible war is, there is no denying the skillful "art" of war. And we're good at it!

Wow...the naivety of these statements is almost as impressive as the video itself. I just don't know how to respond sometimes.

That looks very much like a SA-7.

This isn't 'COPS' on TV. It's war. There's been a rocket placed on the ground by one person. There are other people near trucks where the first rocket came out of. Are you kidding? They clearly identified themselves as the enemy. You respond with surprise and overwhelming violence of action. It's the way you win wars. I say again....GOOD JOB!!!

Dude...that must have hurt. Don't worry...it builds character!

I've seen and held plenty of them and that's what it looks like to me. The pilots are probably pretty well trained in ordinance ID also. Also, in that situation, they couldn't very well land, walk over, and look just to make sure.

Wow...the unedited version definitely makes it more clear that it was totally justified. No problem here. Good job to them!

(Speaking of Germany & France specifically) I think if they want to get involved and do the right thing, however late their efforts may be, that they should. I also think that if they decide not to, for whatever reason, that's fine too. I personally think their European politicians can go "suck an egg!" We'll continue to fight their battles for them. Your initial wording "hopeless muddle" is such a defeatist attitude. Sounds like being "broken" from the start. Maybe that was what was wrong with France & Germany in the first place. Weak backbone.

What a naive statement... Seriously, I've got this very nice beach front property in Tennessee that's for sale. You interested? I'll send you a video.

6 Grand Caravan jumps at the beautiful Emerald Coast Skydiving Center near Mobile, AL. 3 were beach jumps over the water. Free admission and free beer at Flora-Bama when you jump in. Nice!

Half these critics don't even amount to what Barry Sadler described below in his song "Garet trooper." Most here are arm-chair, air-conditioned, computer geeks who wouldn't know at all what it's like to stick their neck out for their brother-in-arms. It's way too foreign for most of them to even comprehend. So, even though this song is at least speaking of a soldier, however piss poor he may be, at least he's a solder. You could add a verse at the end for all those here who don't have the guts to even make it that far and are content to prosecute the every move of those who do. This is dedicated to the parade field trooper Who never leaves that nice soft garrison and always looks real pretty. Now in the war torn jungles of vietnam you'll find a certain...kind of man. You'll see em' everywhere. He's a trooper. A garet trooper. Yeah, he's 5'4'', 220lbs of blubber. Got a him a nickle plated 45 tied down low. Quick draw holster and 2 bandaleers of brassoed ammo. Yeah, he's a trooper... A garet trooper. He's fought from Siagon to Nha Trang... in every bar that is... and then only with the girls... and he ain't won one yet. But he's a trooper... A garet trooper. He's got a hip knife, a side knife, a boot knife, a shoulder knife, and a little bitty one that's a combination flare gun dinner set and genuine police whistle. But he's a trooper... A garet trooper. Now I run into one the other day. He told me a story. Said he's just this minute come back from 15 days running fight against the Cong. Said he'd captured a lot of loot. You know what I saw when I looked down? A spit-shined boot. Yeah, he's a trooper. A garet trooper. Now a poor old pilot come back today... half his crew was killed... aircraft shot to hell. But he don't say much. He's not a trooper. A garet trooper. And out in the hills, in the jungles, and the swamps... living like a bunch of dogs... are some men wearing funny little green hats. They stay out there and fight for months on end. They don't say much. Cause they're not troopers... Garet troopers. And I'll bet finally when I leave this war torn land... the last thing I'll see will be, though I be in a drunken stooper, I'll bet it'll be a garet trooper. Yeah, they're all over the place. Ain't hardly worth goin' to war anymore.

The video looks pretty condemning. The commentary is irrelevant, however. So is the cheering by the troops/marines. That has nothing to do with whether it was a good shoot or not. To me, it looked in the video that the guy was not a threat anymore. Then again, I wasn't there so I don't know that for sure. If he was previously a combatant, he was probably carrying grenades and possibly a pistol even if he didn't have his long rifle anymore. His hands weren't visible so we don't know what he might have been reaching for. Just a guess. Again, all of us watching this video have no idea. Whether it was a good shoot or not would be up to his commanding officer on the ground.

My point is that you and I don't know. We weren't in on the scenario at all. The pilots obviously considered them a threat. What should they do? Let the guy go over to his truck and pull out an RPG? Wait till they shoot at you, so as to be fair, while you're hovering in a multi-million dollar helicopter? I was deployed downrange in Afghanistan for 8 months. You're average Joe driving down the road is loaded to the hilt with rifles, ammo, and RPG's. They're as common as candy in those areas. We don't have the luxury many times to give them the benefit of the doubt. Many times, if you hesitate for the wrong second, you die and that's all there is to it. It's war. It's an ugly business. We also don't have the luxury to second guess one's every move back here in the States in the comfort of our own homes. Things aren't always what they seem.

That would be a great idea and would probably work a whole lot better for the guys just coming in. For those of us who've been around a long time, however, our SSN is all over the freakin place. Countless pieces of paper, some accounted for and some not accounted for by the Army, and disparate databases have my SSN listed. It's not just on my dog tags. I think that's their primary key for just about everything. I think you're correct about the enemy being able to get a lot of stuff on you for their purposes.

I'm pretty sure that he meant that they might be more hesitant to attack someone who “might” be armed. You just never know. Where I live, it's usually assumed that a person probably has a weapon of some sort. It kind of works as a deterrent. The good guys “will” fight back.

I haven't been keeping up with the conversation but here's what I think. We really shouldn't second guess the actions of our troops in the air or on the ground. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be supervised. I'm just saying that they're in combat and dealing with situations very foreign to most. What may look like an unjustified action on this video could be very well justified. Those guys could have been carrying RPG's which would easily take down that helicopter. Just because there was a tractor in the scene doesn't necessarily make them farmers. That kid in the video, if he was really a kid, is as capable as anyone else at pulling a trigger, setting a bomb, or firing a recoilless rifle. Many times, things are not what they seem. I think everybody is just hyper-sensitive to the abuse topic these days and are questioning everything.