Botellines

So are you saying that human kind is evil by nature? Or just coalition military members? Or just American soldiers? If it's just coalition soldiers, do you also include the Spanish support that was in it for the first part? It must suck to assume that people are evil. Not at all, I am saying that so far there has been, let´s say, 6 iraquis tortured by six US soldiers. But i am sure that not all the case of torture has been pictured, and out of all the case of torure pictured, not all have made it to the press. So probably to torute the enemy is more frequent that what we think among US soldiers. Regarding if i think it is only US or the rest of the coalition? Well, it seems that UK army is being investigated as well. I doubt, however, that spanish troops did that, if only because they held no captives while they were there. But i good investigation would be in order just in case. Is it more clear to you now?

It has been posted before... But anyway, we cannot deny that Bush is a big achiever...

Sorry, we don´t know if this is isolated. My guess is that this is only the tip of the iceberg. But yes, Torture is Torture, as it was when a group or militars tortured people from ETA to obtain information about the next terrorist attack with the aprovement of the government.

Appart from the one's who have been dragged through the street and litterally ripped appart at the hands of a mob. Yes, you are right. It just seems to me that it is more repulsive ()(if posible) to do stuff like that just to be funny or to have a superiority trip than out of rage. I bet that this woman that appears in the pics pointing at the genitals of the Iraky guy wouldn´t be so cocky had they been both alone in a dark street. It is that abuse of power what angers me. I think it is posible to be a soldier, to kill, and be a gentleman at the same time.

I think it is more the Iraky way. Unsurprisingly the Iraki insurgents are behaving in a much more human fashion than the american saviours. So far all the captured people are being treated properly but one Italian. So what is the diference now beetwen Bush and Saddam Hussein? and beetwen Uday and Qusay Hussein and those soldiers? Thinking of this, now it makes sense. That is why Bush tried to convence the UN tto pass a law so no american could be judge for crimes against humanity. Clever...

I personaly would release those "brave soldiers" in the middle of Fallujah. Maybe then they wouldn´t be so daring. I really hope this is all the scum you have in your army and not only the tip of the iceberg.

I have always thought that being reasonably fit, and having some knowledge of martial arts, i could hold my own against five guys for at least 15 seconds. Enough time for my partner to run away or run away myself. That is all i need. If i have a gun, there is two options. Either i get killed or i end up in jail. The third option (self-defense) is not always there.

That is what i call a pretty bad trip.

Yep

I just asked my boss for a day off while threatingly holding a peanut cookie in my right hand. Will you believe it? it worked, tomorrow i am not coming to work. So.. Does it mean that now i too have WMD. If so, i wil call Blix to get rid of mt M&M.

I agree. I don´t see Hamas as Freedom Fighters at all. They both want the whole cake and they don´t want to share. In my opinion they are BOTH terrorist. I just think that it is not good at all for anyone to say that Palestinians are terrorist and Israel not. I would supress all diplomatic relationship to both of them (but humanitariam help) untill they both come to an agreement.

The only country that i know of that reports to be actively searching for Bin Laden outside their frontier is the US (although they are more interested now in Irak) so it is not unreasonable to assume that the US would be the most interested in their extradition. To be honest i thought the first post meant the USA although it didn´t explicitly say it. Tonto in spanish means silly, estupid (more stupid than silly since silly can be consider under some circumstances a term of endearment, and tonto not). That is a personal attack. If you want to do a personal attack, you should do so in a way that we all understand. Not only the poeple who speaks spanish. That way you give the greenies a chance to delete your post.

This language barrier again!!!! You must be using sarcasm, right?

I personally hate when people try to make a point and they quote the bible as since it is in the bible it has to be true. Thou shall not rely upon the 45 degree rule, for evil temptation falls around you awaiting. Botellines 5:87

They don´t kill Hamas leader to instill fear among the population. To instill fear among the population they use bulldozer to take down their houses.

Palestina is involved in what they see as an unfair war with Israel. I am not going to enter whether they are right or not. That is the way they seet it (and many other people). Israel has a different point of view. The diference is that wether Israel has a powerful army (thanks to the USA) Palestina has none, so they have to use homemade bombs to fight their war. Give them Apache Helicopters, train them to use them, and i assure you that they will stop killing civillians and will go for Ariel Sharon and the leaders. They don´t have a sistematic aproach to kill Israel citizens, it is only that they don´t want to settle the war in unfavorable terms for them. Same thing that with Israel. They are both doing the same thing for the same reasons, the diference is IMO, that Israel is taking something that does not belong to them and Palestinians are defending what is rightfully theirs.

I think many many people see it like that as well. Israel has broken literally dozen of UN rules, yet the US and other countries still support Israel. However samething for Irak and now it is necesary to overthrown Saddam Hussein. It is all about money and religion. Ironic how the Jews ised to be victimized by the nazis and now they are doing the same thing to the palestinians. One would think that they learned the lesson. Or maybe they learned too well.

Fair enogh, in spain we had the option to declare that you where against weapons and therefore you wouldn´t hold a gun against anyone. So you would have to do community service. If you went to the army it was 12 months, if you did community service it was 18 months. The paycheck was ridiculos, something like what you expended on public transportation to go to work plus 30$ at month (what a joke) it pretty much meant free labor. Even if you give a decent salary to the guys who will be getting welfare you will be taking jobs that would be taken otherwise by people on welfare. So the only thing you are doing is rotating jobs. I don´t know how much of a trouble it is people who could get a job but the don´t and live on welfare (i mean number wise). In spain we have welfare, but while you are getting cash (you only get part of what you have paid previously in taxes, so if you never worked, you will not get a monthly welfare cash) the government is looking for a job for you. And there is only so many times you can reject the job before you loose your welfare.

[sarcasm]Now, that would be a highly motivated team[/sarcasm] Some questions about mandatory draft (spain had it till 4 years ago) How much the paycheck? (something symbolic as it happened here would put profesionally and economicly at a disadvantage whoever is not going to finally join the army) For how long? (Can you in one year and with no further training make an efficient army 5 years later?) Will be mandatory for woman as well? (Should be, if no it would put profesionally men at disadvantage) What are the conditions for being declared unfit for the army? (you will see i huge rise in very bad allergies, miopy, heterosexuals claiming to be gay, etc etc) Will people who are declared unfit to join the army be entitled to welfare or other tax benefits? I don´t think it would be a popular regulation...

Well, i can order beer in Spanish and English, (learning in french as well), so i will never be thirsty in a Dropzone. I can also hit on girls (without much succes to tell the truth) in all America (north and south, exclude some parts of Canada). When i am abroad, i can pretend i am clueless when i don´t want to participate (which always lead to funny situations when they realize i DO understand them). Speaking several languages is always good, and usefull no matter what. Cervantes said that a man is worth for as many languages he speaks (I think he only spoke spanish so i wouldn´t give him much credit, but still). Well, to keep on topic, probably hamas as already another leader.

http://www.oas.org/juridico/english/treaties/b-47(1).html Article 9 Can someone make it clicky, please?

Having a contest about whose country is worse is like arguing about whose dick is bigger. (pointless) I think that there has been some precedence (¿US and Spain? i need to check it), it usually gets solved by a commitment from the country that supports death penalty to not apply it to that person.

Now seriously, i always thought that the diference beetwen a religion and a sect is the number of adepts. Lets not forget that christanity was at some point a forbidden religion and was practiced hiddenly.

I wouldn´t call my religion uncommon.... (half the outter space share it) May the force be with you.

Exactly, that is what i meant when i talked about ending up in a cell close to Milosevic. I agree that Irak also have the right to judge him, however, how are you going to ensure a fair trial? The government is necesarily going to be influenced by the US. Eventually Irak will have an independent government but that will take a long time and Saddam Hussein is not that young. If he dies while being held capture by the US he will be more of a martir than if he dies after a fair trial. If he is condemned to capital punishment in Irak under an unfair trial (or what it may look like), He WILL BE a martir. so i am up for a trial in the Hague. However, this have legal consequences that must be looked upon. We are setting precedence of a country starting an unprovoked war (under a preventive aproach) and setting the rules to judge the former president of the country that lost the war. If we go along international war, Irak, USA, UK, spain, etc etc broke that law as well. It will give the impression to the world that whoever wins the war, sets the rules. and as someone said in another thread, perception is all.