Westerly

The problem is that scenario only exists in the text box that you wrote it in. In the real world outside of this website, the 30 year old is going to the club, not giving a fuck, and spreading it around everywhere because 'I have a 99.9% chance of survival anyway, so big deal'. That's what most people are doing right now, not staying at home completely isolated. I would bet my left nut less than 10% of those in their 30s and 20s are staying home entirely and completely isolated. I am pretty sure most of those in that group are living life normally or with some level of normalcy.

No, human idiocy, politics and complete disregard for others are causing those things. None of those things would be necessary anywhere if people just followed the CDC guidance and used their damn brains. But people want to live life like everything is fine and pretend that wearing a mask means they are forced into some USSR-era communism state. That's what is causing the lock downs. There are plenty of countries who have no lockdowns because their citizens actually follow the rules.

Yea, well thank that on no centralized leadership. Currently the process for the vaccinate roll out program is hey, just send us your address and we'll send you some doeses of whatever. You'll just have to see when it shows up in the mail. Then when it does show up in the mail the instructions are to the effect of 'inject into patient' and that's about it. So yea, everyone is doing everything different becasue no one is being told what to do so everyone just makes stuff up as they go.

Fair enough, you're right. But your idea could lead to that, which is the same end result. Regarding the data. I looked at those tables. They show maybe an effectiveness of about 50% with one shot, but it wasent tested much. Considering half of the USA wont even take it in the first place, that would leave us with a vaccine that is only providing a 25% effective rate. In other words, no vaccine at all. That is assuming that the manufactures dont come through and deliver the 2nd shot on time, which is a very high probability I think. This is the largest logistical task of modern times and we want to make it even more complicated--I think failure is a virtual guarantee at that point.

It is if you havent actually done any planning in those 9 months.

Great, let's see it.

Says the guy who literally just got done doing exactly that. billvon literally just said that he is all for taking short cuts and administering the doses incorrectly and that's cool with everyone. However, when I was like 'we should probably just expedite phase 3 and release it to everyone' then all of a sudden you guys are all high and mighty and think it's a bad idea. So to make things clear, it is not okay to expedite phase 3 testing of the product but it IS okay to administer it in a manner that is inconsistent with manufacturer testing and approval? Just making sure I got this right. The DIFFERENCE between the two is that I was arguing that because there IS evidence that the vaccine was successful and safe, it should be released. Currently, there is NO evidence that dosing incorrectly will yield an effective outcome. One argument has evidence, the other does not. See the difference?

a

Not really. I work at a large hospital. They are going to follow protocol regardless of what politicians want them to do. I am not really concerned about myself. I am concerned about the shit show that will come to be if this roll out is done as half-assedly as everything about this pandemic has been done.

My argument was that it was going to be approved anyway and so we should roll it out sooner rather than later. I never made the argument that it should be administered in a way not approved by the manufacturer. Also, at that time it wasent even clear how many doses were needed. At first it was thought to be just one.

That I dont agree with that unless a 2nd shipment is firmly guaranteed to arrive in time. See the thing is this vaccination is tested on the STRICT requirement that the 2nd dose must be given within a specifically narrow time frame. Neither vaccination has been tested where the 2nd dose was given outside of a few day range of the 21 / 28 day recommendation by the manufacturer. So I foresee an issue where lots of people go and get their 1st dose, but when it comes time to get their 2nd they are left holding their dick in their hands because there arnt any vaccinations left. That's a big problem and it's a problem for which we dont know what will happen as it has not been tested. There really needs to be a firm guarantee that when you get the 1st dose you're going to get the 2nd and it's going to be administered on time. Otherwise we could end up vaccinating a lot of people and for all we know the vaccination doesn't work at all becasue it was not administered correctly. Then we have to backtrack and RE vaccinate all those who were vaccinated incorrectly--if we even can. I can also see people mixing and matching the two different brands because they cant get the 2nd shot of the correct brand and that absolutely has not been tested. So just do it right and hold the 2nd shot in reserve. We dont really have the time or resources to half ass this and do it incorrectly.

You seem to be under the misunderstanding that the only people who can suffer harm from the virus is old, fragile people that are living the last few lives of their life or those strapped to a hospital bed. Well here is a news flash for you. ANYONE of any age of any health can suffer serious effects of COVID. You might not die from it being young, but you can suffer long term damage that will forever reduce the quality of your life and rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in future medical bills. This isint 1 in 1000 either. This is happening regularly to a lot of people. In addition, we still dont know what the true long term effects are of the virus. For all we know 30% of covid survivors will develop heart failure in the next 10 years. Who knows. But we do know that there are long term effects, even to healthy people who were completely asymptomatic. Asymptomatic people in their 20s who had Covid are suddenly suffering from unusual health conditions that are showing up months later. This has been documented worldwide. Here is what a bunch of CrossFit athletes found out. Think you're fitter and healthier than they are? https://morningchalkup.com/2020/08/18/crossfit-athletes-who-had-covid-19-reveal-recovery-details/

Donald Trump on vaccines, 2012 Yea, good luck. That might be a waste of $80,000. Demand in some areas is low, but in most cases it's through the roof and even those who desperately need it cant get it.

who me? I got my vaccination from a regular civilian hospital. anyway, this issue is widespread. look at the link I provided. There are many locations that are throwing supplies away. many people dont want it. some people are more afraid of the vaccination than the virus. I am not kidding. I was on loan to a different unit today and I had a doc tell me he wont take it until there is more info available about long term effects. a doctor told me that.... it's real. some people are scared and dont want it. but this should not come as a surprise considering how lackadaisical people are regarding covid in the first place. i guess if you dont give a shit about the virus in the first place, you're probably not going to be that interested in getting the vaccination.

they will care when they die from it. Too bad it will be too late at that point.

Cardiology lab. However, everyone in the hospital was offered it, even the admin staff. My area had too many doses and not enough demand actually. There still seems to be a really strong resistance against getting vaccinated with more than half of all people not interested in getting it. This article sums it up well: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/10/health/covid-19-vaccine-unused/index.html That's why I think the vaccination should go straight to the public. Anyone who wants it, any age, they can get it. Then just prioritize high priority patients. Basically say, you can show up and wait in line and if there are doses left over, then the youngings can get it. Those who work in health care or are 65+ get to cut to the front of the line. Do it that way and not a single dose ever will have to be thrown away. Right now there are thousands of doses that went into the trash last week which is BS.

Well I got it becasue I work in the medical field and so everyone in my unit regardless of age was offered it. But still, it doesent change the fact that the distribution to the general population is not uniform. And of course there is a black market for this stuff. Family hook ups and such. People selling the vaccine under the table for cash. It happens. This is why I said SIGN UP FOR THE DAMN TRIAL! If you would have signed up, you would have the vaccination before any of us. There is nothing that has changed about the formula between phase 3 and now. It's still the same mRNA.

Different states have different policies. Like all aspects of the covid, nothing in this country is uniform about how we do anything with the handling of the virus and everything is make it up as we go.

yawn you guys are like school girls talking shit in the shower. trump isint even a thing. trump is like a penny on the sidewalk. its not even worth the effort to look down at it. he is a done deal. in a week he will be the newest member of the unemployed mass that he helped create. the bigger issue is the mismanagement of covid will go on to wreck lives well after he is gone, leaving biden with the impossible task of trying to contain something that is impossibly containable at this point.

We finally did it. 300,500 new Covid infections yesterday. Broke the record. Are we going to make 400k a day? How many deaths we going to get up to? My guess is 5000 a day. Basically like the first 10 years of the war in Iraq all combined into one day, but everyday. Imagine if Covid was a terrorist doing all the killing. We would have solved this problem about 364 days ago. But since we cant see it, no one seems to care.

No. I have never had any side affects from any vaccine. I just got it today though so it's still new.

Yea, lots of people. I got it and my wife has it. I got the mRNA version.

What I am getting at is stupidity is the driving factor in much of what we are seeing here. Between resistance against mask wearing, insisting that the election had widespread fraud and all the other lies that are being driven. The only reason why any of these ideas get traction is becasue people are idiots and they are gullible. If the world was nothing but intelligent people, none of those notions would even make it to the back page of a local newspaper because everyone would know they are bullshit. So maybe the real issue is not that we have someone willing to spread lies, but we have so many people willing to believe those lies?

Well maybe the issue here is less Trump and more that people are idiots can cant separate fact from fiction? If the entire world was nothing but medical doctors, scientists and engineers, I bet many of these issues wouldn't exist.