Ron

None of that answers the question of WHY you would jump an unproven unit. I alos am unpset about the 12 year life span. I bought mine when it didn't have a life span also. But being upset about the life span is nto a good enough reason to jump a unit with KNOWN problems. I would love for a reliable safe cheap AAD to compete against the CYPRES....However VIGIL still has yet to prove to be safe in my eyes. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope, but then again since you were not around when the CYPREs came out and I was...There was PLENTY of doubt about the CYPRES also. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Notice two of them have failed? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Would you risk your life on a 12 year old computer? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So if the old CYPRES is just fine...Why by a new unproven unit? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Considering the task could possibly kill you if it does not work by missfiring, or may not save you.... So, knowing that if that computer crashes, you could die....Which would you want? A New simple computer without a lot of gadgets, an old simple computer without a lot of gadgets, or a new computer with a lot of gadgets that might crash? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You know this? When I bought mine they didn't have a service life.... However the points he brought up are quite valid....Would you want to use a 12 year old computer at work? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have busted my own lip doing that....After feeling like an idiot, I found it quite funny. Have you seen a guy fall backwards yet when they break? WAY funny. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

All great points. I don't really see the benefit for an AAd that can be a tandem AAD, Student or Expert. I don't normlally pull out my tandem CYPRES and take it on a sport jump or vice versa. So while that might be a benefit for a school...For the average jumper its not a real bonus. I would only change the order. 1. Reliable...Its not worth a thing if it can kill you with a misfire, or it wil not work when needed. 2. Price...I like to jump and have other toys. 3. Better tech....as long as its reliable...I don't care how "cool" or advanced it is. But I agree with everything else. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't normally charge for one on one coach jumps. Just slot. If you want to pay for my packer thats cool, but not needed. Tandems I get 32.00 For a day of 4 way or 8 way coaching I get 150.00. Tunnel time I get 100.00 for the first hour, 50 for the next or 200.00 for all day. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Have people actually said that? I have never heard that. Besides most of the problems seem to be created by static...so in theory the only danger is during deployment, or packing on carpet. On deployment I hope I am not near you, and if you rig fires while you are packing...Its not a dnager unless it pops someone in the head (I have seen that...it's pretty funny). "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Good info...so BUMP!!!!! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Did all of mine from 800 as well. Only once did I do a Hollywood jump at Bragg. It was for the aniversery of the C130...(40 years?) We had one C130 for each year one pass on the DZ...Pretty cool really. I have been told that they raised the altitude after I got out (2002). But I really doubt the 82d is doing Hollywood jumps. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Training jumps in Airborne school are at 1200 feet. At Bragg we did all of ours at 800 feet. Combat jumps are from 500. I have been told that they raised the jumps at Bragg since I have been out, but I don't know for sure. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A. I post a lot. B. I don't just say screw them and ignore them when they challenge me. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The BEST way? Don't get them all tangled up. The next best way, Call a rigger buddy and offer beer. Now if you MUST do it yourself. 1. Hang the canopy up from the tail. 2. Disconnect the risers and first seperate left lines from right. 3. Then seperate front from back on both sides. 4. Don't do whatever messed them up again. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

One could say that lack of respect FROM the inexperienced jumper is the problem. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Me asking him if he understood the message I was trying to tell him. I was asking to see if he understood my point. If you wish to contiune this...PM me...It's not really related to this thread. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That was an attack at me, not a stupid question. Stupid questions don't bother me...Hell I WISH more people asked questions...That was an attack. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, and to be honest I still have 4 years left on mine, so anything could happen...But I think the ad was misleading since they came up with the "Life span" later. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How do you think any of those guys would respond to a guy that said this to them: BTW the quote is: "Who you are speaks so loudly, I cannot hear a word you are saying."—Emerson "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sounds like you at least have a plan...AND a way to know when its time to give up. Not bad. But you do realize that while you are chasing your buddy (Who most likley will NOT be stable) will be falling faster than 5-6 seconds per thousand feet? And you have to not only match that, but go faster to catch him? (Anyone know how fast a spinning back flyer falls?) OK so how long does your audible sound? If you don't know this, then you can't say you will be at 1,000 feet. Does it sound for 3 seconds? 4? 5? (I to be honest don't know how long mine is...Plus I just got a Neptune and have not even heard the third alarm on it yet) You need to know that. Its the difference between 1,000 feet, and 648 feet. How long does it take for you to look, grab, pull your reserve? Remember its not a natural act for you since you may have done it once or twice before. (I have played around with my reserve...2-3 seconds to look at it, grab it and pull it. So thats 352-528 feet after I decide to pull it. IF I am stable.) So while you do have a plan, and EVEN a warning (Which I am surprized no one mentioned that yet, I was waiting for it.....Good thinking.) So, do this next time you jump...Or someone else do it and let us know. Have someone fall on their back. Not big, but in a knocked out body position...And lets record the speed/time per thousand feet. On a dive practice a reserve pull while flat dumb and happy...Get it on video to time it. Time different third alarms by different audibles. Using this data we can see what the facts are...And then you can use FACTS to make a choice, not noble thoughts. Off the top of my head I'd guess: Back fliers will fall 220-240fps so about 4.0-4.5 seconds per thousand feet. Reserve pull about 2-3 seconds. Audible about 3 seconds. I would be VERY interested in the real numbers. But using these numbers: 1500 feet the alarm goes off for three seconds. You are traveling at 230 FPS. 3 X 230 = 690 feet. That alone puts you at 810 feet AGL. 190 feet BELOW your plan. You look grab pull 2.5 seconds 575 feet. 810-575 = 235 feet. Your reserve MIGHT open in time. Thats using the medium numbers....It could be as much as: 400 feet (3 seconds at 220 plus 2 seconds for a reserve pull). Or as little as: 60 feet ( 3 seconds at 240 and a 3 second reserve pull.) At the bottom of the range you will NOT survive. In the middle you MIGHT survive...Unless you are over 100 foot trees. At the top of the range, you most likley will survive. Now that you have some numbers...does it still sound like a good idea to take it to 1,000 feet? But please, someone time this stuff and lets REALLY settle this. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That would take out the "personal" touch that you know and love so much. Besides its my time to waste ya know I ahve a dream that one day people will listen...I'd like to be there when that happens....ya know majic moment and all. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah but my hate mail folder is filling up quicker than my thanks folder. I don't know about you, but I am afraid to jump without ALL of my stuff...Think rig "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Peep this: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=624844#624844 Of course as always talk to your instructor. Don't assume info given on here is correct. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334