Ron

What happend? People wanted skydiving to become popular like skiing. Well this is a step in that direction. How many skiing places accept new folks right from the bunny hills unless they make friends in the lodge? I don't agree, but people bitch that skydiving should be more professional, more organized. Well, that includes more rules and more money. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Hey don't forget my favorite...A guy with thousands of jumps/ buncha years, ect. Gets flak from someone with a few jumps since he does not like what he is told. Reference almost any "Should I get the Xbraced at 100 jumps...I'll be really carefull" threads. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not true. Someone once said it really well when a person who was thinking about doing a FJC program got upset at how we often refer to "Tandem Mills, Slinging meat" ect. They said, and I think it was Tonto, that they are getting a look behind the wall at what skydivers inner circles talk about. Same here. Maybe we need to define "Whuffo". A "Whuffo" is not the folks that ask questions to learn more, whuffos are the ones that ask questions like we are crazy and are trying to convert us back to sanity, or who don't care to really try to understand. Those people are annoying. And if you have never met one, I am amazed. People who ask questions about the sport who are really interested are not whuffos. The guy who says only idiots and birdshit fall from the sky...They are whuffos. And if they are going to pass judgement on me and my activities without trying to learn anything....Well I have no real use for those kinds of people. Also, almost any tight group has a term for people who don't participate and have jokes about them. Thats the nature of humans. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You are also wrapped in a metal frame with a seat belt and in many cases an airbag. There are roads which most people follow unlike the sky which is a true free for all. Yet even being prepared 1 in a 1,000 die each year in the US. Imagine how low the driving fatality rates would be if people did the same amount of prep! So we have a high risk sport where people get training and do gear checks with a higher death rate than someone who gets little to no formal training and does no pre trip on the car. 70+70 = 140. In skydiving you are doing 120 and there is no escape but to stop. There is no 5 foot gap. and the other driver is trying to avoid you as well. The earth does not care and will not get out of your way. Total BS. Also when something breaks on your car it is not nearly as serious as when your main malfunctions. Just because you FEEL safer does not make it safer. And about your skill, not one person who died jumping or driving thought they would. And they still did. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No offense, total and complete crap. Skydiving has one speed and every time you do it you try to stop 10 seconds from certain death. Really? I would like to see you back up a parachute to get some more altitude, or slow down freefall, or pull over in freefall to think. Dirty quick math here. 33000 members of the USPA and about 30 people die in the US each year. Thats ~1 in a 1,000 members die each year. I have known MANY more jumpers to die than car related deaths. Not that is not evidence of anything, but neither is yours. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That is damn cool. If I had a boat. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It was a small problem, in a bad place to have a small problem. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A pic from my last trip....Didn't go well, but at least I did not die. So thats gotta count for something! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You could not have been on AF1 unless the CiC was on board . You could have been on a VC25A a highly modified 747 that when the CiC is there becomes AF1. But then again, if the CiC was on board, the DZ Otter would be AF1. So to jump AF1 all we need to do is get Bush Jr, on a C-130 with the back gate open and us all geared up. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The difference is what angle are your legs to the horizon? Most "Box" positions have them pulled back more than a "mantis" Also, most "box" positions have your chest arched while the "mantis" has your chest cupping air. Given all things being equal....I would have to say Mantis would be slower. However, I think the whole "X" is faster than "Y" thing is mostly junk. Either position can be adjusted to match fallrates and most would make that adjustment without even thinking. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You don't want the micro guy. Get the bigger one. The micro one does not freefall, only SL. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I kinda think they were going for the people who had never seen the old movies or read the comic books. The original was 1978 and IV was 1987. 28 and 19 years respectively. They need a new group of fans. I'll admit it was corney, but so were the originals and the TV series...I mean George would stand there and let the bad guys shoot at him, but then the bad guy would throw the gun and Georgie would duck???? I think they are looking for a new audience. I liked the "throwbacks" to the original like Brando as Jor-El. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I liked it. He sounded like Reeves as well. It was corny, but it is a movie about a guy in tights that can fly and all. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Dean here is the question....Do you run home then bitch that you don't feel like you belong at the DZ or don't fit in? The thing is, I don't think you have the right to bitch that the DZ does not "Accept" you, if you are only there for 6 hours one weekend per mth and can't be bothered to spend some time getting to know people and them getting to know you. You want to come out do some jumps and go home...Cool, but you lose the right to bitch that you don't feel "included". If you want to feel included you have to put some effort into it. Maybe you don't bitch. If not, then this does not apply to you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It would be impossible to ask you in person since you hide behind a screen name. See the irony? "I'll tell you in person, but I will not tell you who I am." Ah, so since I wish to know how you claim to know all the things you claim to know....You insult me? Nice to know what type of person I was dealing with, even if I can't know who it was. If you are afraid to stand behind your views....Maybe you should just keep them to yourself? Honest and open discussions can not be had when one person hides under a false identity. If you are afraid of repercussion of your views....Maybe you should keep them quiet, instead of hide? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And while wearing a belt sucks...I think that a belt feels better. It hangs on my hips, not my shoulders. It just feels better. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Part of this problem is the yuppie skydivers. They come out, make their 5-6 jumps and run home to get cleaned up and go out to eat. When I started...Oh please, this is making me sound old....people would come out, make as many jumps as they could and HANG OUT afterward. They would all smell bad form a days hard jumping and no one cared. The best piece of advice ever given to me about skydiving....It was from Mark Cruise, "Show up at the DZ with a case of beer. You will have friends." If some of these new people quit showing up to the DZ expecting to be treated like the experienced folk are there to make them happy and realized that the experienced folk are trying to have fun and be challenged as well...then maybe they will hang out, drink a few beers and make some friends. I will jump with a friend no matter how good/bad/ugly they are. But I am not going to go out of my way to seek out someone for the 4 -5 hours they are at the DZ to make sure they have a good time. Some of the more EXP folks need to be willing to spend time talking to these folks. Its two sides, but since most skydivers love other skydivers I think its more the attitude of the new folks, not the old hands. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK, how about if I just copy and paste his questions? I am not anonymous, I like the convention but will not be going due to those issues and think his comments are bang on. Avoiding those kinds of questions does not help your cause. I would like to see the convention back the way it was, but why go if I can do the same things at my local DZ boogie? Or why pick the convention as the only boogie I would do? The WFFC used to be the "Must Attend" boogie. Now it seems to be an "also ran". What are you doing to change that? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope..Care to answer if you are holding onto it so tight since it may be your only chance at glory? But you make claims that people don't know how hard it is...Since that would mean you DO...Then maybe you should not hide? Nope but when you make claims, it helps to back them up with more than just talk. For example: AA: The crux here is the use of the word 'besides'. Strength. For blocks Well do you have any experience, or are you just talking? AA: Doing a 21, 22, 23 average is NOT the same as doing a 15, 16, 17 . And you know how? Brian Johnson told me that it was easier than he thought to do a 20. How do you know? AA: I said skydiving at a 21+ has a lot to do with muscle. And you know this how? Ever done a 21+? AA: The point slot is typically more of a precision solo-flying slot And you know this HOW? AA: Tail is known as a very aggressive, physical slot You know this how? You claimed to be a point? AA: Yes I know who you are, I also know a little about 4-way and disagree with you. Right there you claim to be an "Oracle" of skydiving...Yet you still hide? Then you say AA: "we are talking about the cutting edge of the sport, at a 21, 22, 23, 24. I haven't been there, nor have you, and I am sure there are those better qualified than us to get on the bandwagon. " And then when one does, you discount it....TOO FUNNY! You make claims but refuse to say who you are, or how you got your information. You ask for, then discount any information that does not fit into your world...all the time hiding. You have been asked to say who you are, but you still hide and argue. A little credability goes a long way. You make alot of claims about what you know. So who are you so we can see if you know what you are talking about? Or would you rather troll? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't think it is needed. I think it is a shame that people think women can not compete at the same level as men. And that is proven wrong over and over since Dawn English. I am not envious of a medal. A medal for a 17 is not the same as a medal for a 20+. It is about the performance, not the trinket. Why do you defend it so much? Do you think it is your only shot at "glory"? Here is the thing, I respect people who try and earn a level of skill no matter what sex they are. I don't look at Natasha or Eliana, Ditta, ect and think, "They pretty good for a girl." I look at them and think. "They are good." I must admit I find it interesting how much you claim to know, but hide your identity. Are you afraid to stand beside your words in the open? I am done...As long as you will only hide, I will consider you to be nothing more than a troll. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Again...Who are you and why are you hiding? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And you are?????? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I think to claim that the back piece has a need for "strength" more than any other slot...Is false. In fact OC is one of the hardest slots in 4way IMO. Could it be that the same logic that for years prevented females from being selected on the top teams is at work? I mean 8 years ago some thought FX had no shot and were crazy since they had a female. That wall was broken down and now 5 national teams have a women on them and a woman is a WORLD CHAMPION. Given time the real fact that good skydivers are just good skydivers will prevail. ALL of the evidence is pointing to the fact that women are just as able as any man in skydiving. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The key being "Team" and not skydiver. There are no really high level female teams since the really good talent is spread out due to the lack of NUMBER of females that jump. The same argument could be used to show why there are less female AFF Instructors, less Female PRO rated jumpers, less female Pro canopy pilots...ect. Unless you want to claim that men are just better suited for all of that than women? Not something I agree with personally. Anyway I'm over this...You say women can't compete at that level do to strength, yet we have a World Champion who is female and several national champs that are female. A guy that Won a World Meet with a female tells you that sex does not matter, yet you have MORE qualified people who say other wise???? Unless they were on the 04 WM team they are by definition less qualified than Talbert. I'd love to discuss this, but your logic makes no sense at all, and I don't see the need to continue with a person with no name. Provide some identity info, and some good logic and we can continue. Otherwise C-Ya. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not really. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334