sfc

If they're republicans? Of course! Guilt by affiliation! Classic. NCclimber avoiding the question

You mean the whole "trial by media" concept is a myth? It has been interesting to see the difference between what many were claiming and what actually happened. Besides giving his girlfriend a pay raise to $180,000.00, instead of the maximum of around $150,000.00, what other acts of wrongdoing did he commit? Isn't this enough? He used tax payers money to do this as well as she was employed by the US government, it was a abuse of authority, plain and simple, I find it disgusting that he tried to defend his actions. Are you OK with a senior non-elected official giving undeserved raises to his girlfriend with tax payers money?

Well this demonstrates how removing judicial over site from the executive is a really bad idea. We are well on the way to having our own secret police answering to no-one just like the Russians have the KGB. Anyone know what remains before the USA goes from being a republic to a dictatorship or maybe we are already there? We'll have to have our own perestroika.

I used to make it when I was a chemistry teacher back in the UK. The kids loved it in class, you can smear it (when wet) on desks and after it dries it explodes like a little firecracker when you touch it. It is really powerful stuff in quantities, don't let it dry out until you want to use it, a mouse fart will set it off. Oh and it will leave a really bad stain so don't put it on anything you care about.

The credit goes to the Doctor, he was the one who edited it, I just put it on-line, I'll show him your message. Cliff did see part of the video, the section in the middle after the CLIFF banner roles in was what the Doctor made for him when he left Hollister to go to law school. I think he liked it.

It is the same one, did you install the codec AFTER upgrading windows media player. There are other players available as well, try this one instead http://www.bsplayer.com/

You can download the tribute video from here http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=guestpass&id=bzkvr or here if you have a skydivingmovies login http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=5266 If you don't have it already you'll need to install this codec (xvid) http://www.xvidmovies.com/codec/ Funny thing about this codec, Cliff and I were chatting about movie downloads when I first met him and we agreed that this was the best codec out there for movies, seemed fitting to use it for this and it is af course the best.

Cliff's ash dive was a very emotional moment for me, it was beautiful and clear sunset. We climbed out at 16,000ft into a crisp chilly sky and started our last jump with Cliff. The calm that was on the whole group was amazing, we didn't pull off the best exit out of the king air but everyone flew and we made our slot for Cliff. We then all turned to Adam and watch Cliff fly free. I can still picture the last moment I saw Cliff hanging as a cloud as we fell away, it will be ingrained in my memory for ever. I've uploaded a copy of the tribute the Doctor made to www.skydivingmovies.com, it is waiting approval and should be viewable in a day or so. Its called cliff_memorial.avi.

I met Cliff after he moved out to CA at Hollister, when he moved off to law school in Davis The Doctor threw this video together. In Cliff style he complained it did not have enough of "him" in it. The last conversation I had with him was at thanksgiving, he was telling me about this watches (chronographs no less). http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2194451887729599974&hl=en If anyone can host a 65MB file I have a higher res version of this.

BSBD Cliff. Thanks for all the fun we had.

So basically you argument is because there are other things that are more dangerous we should do nothing about this. Very weak. The smokers will get over it, they'll just have to find somewhere else to go and enjoy their habit or quit and save other taxpayers having to pay for Medicaid when they are dying of cancer at 65. The smoking bans are only going to get stronger over time, fewer and fewer people are listening to the kinds of arguments you are making.

I have no problem with someone smoking in their apartment if they prevent the smoking getting into someone elses enclosed space, why should I have to live with my windows closed, it gets hot in the summer and opening windows cools the apartment down. Second hand smoke is not a petty nuisance, even the federal government and tobacco companies recognise that it is a health risk.

Perhaps we should appy the standard to automobile exhaust. If you open your window and traces of CO2 waft in, then by jolly someone should pay. Fair is fair. If you hadn't noticed automomible polution regulations have been tightening over the last few decades, CA has laws mandating 0% emissions for the future. BTW CO2 is a concern for global warming, our bodies produce it as well. What give someone the right to invade my space with their cigarette smoke, still haven't answered that have you.

ROFLMAO. You don't think the big corps. pollute and run? Spell EVIAN backwards. And by the way. Monsanto forces all (most) the farmers to use their genetically engineered crap nowadays>http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org/Monsantovsusfarmersreport.cfm Of course they pollute, but the laws in place have significantly reduced the pollution in the USA, some are even forced to pay for the cleanup. If you want to see what happens when there is no state enforcement on corporate pollution look at china, russia and parts of africa/asia, and other third world countries. Anyway, if I'm in an apartment with a young baby I don't want neighbors smoke, I think that me and my baby and family have a right to clean air, period. It's incredible that it is legal to contaminate the air in someone elses living space with known carcinogens. What gives a smoker the right to do that, why shouldn't there be laws protecting people especially if the majority of the "people" or their elected representatives want it? P.S. I don't care if you want to smoke, I agree you have a right to do this, but not at the expense of other peoples health.

It sounds like the neighbors had been upset about it for 5 years before they resorted to changing the rules, if these smokers had given a shit about their neighbors and tried to do something about it instead of adopting a "we can do anything in our apartment" attitude they wouldn't be in this position. Changing rules mid-stream, that is like saying the local city can't change it laws after I move into town.

Some groups are protected by law, veterans, races etc. Smokers/skydivers are not If skydivers started dropping shit all over peoples houses and upsetting folks we would be more closely regulated, but we don't, we take care to be responsible and for the most part we don't piss people off or endanger them, if smokers didn't make being around them when they are doing their habit such a bad experience they wouldn't be regulated either.

You've never lived in an apartment with a smoking neighbor who doesn't give a shit when the smoke comes up from him into your room I expect. It's like having someone smoking in the room you with you and I had a young baby in there. Yes I spoke with him and he did not stop, I ended up moving to a house. Many smokers are addicts who are so into getting their next fix that they do it without regard to non-smokers, regulation is the only way to control it and it works. I'm totally OK with baning it anywhere where there is a chance a non-smoker could get poisoned by it. As for the BS about police state, this is just one of thousands of toxic substances that the government is deciding to regulate, no more. Do you object to the government regulating the toxins a company can dump in the rivers or the type pesticides a farmer can use on his crops?

Well don't live there then, there are lots of other cities in the country. Why shouldn't a city decide to do this, smokers arn't a protected group under law. The article says they "voted", they are elected officials, democracy at work, if you don't like it run for city council and change it. They also baned smoking in apartments :)

And what laws would those be? Terri Schiavo, abortion, stem cell research [feeble_reply] Schiavo - please show me where it says "God says it is bad" in [snip hot air] But again, that doesn't make for as good of a Bush-bash... [/feeble_reply] Well you lost. Seems like most of the country thinks Bush is full of shit, this "will of god" BS is just another thing that pisses me off about him and some other members of the GOP. Did I mention you lost :) Ah, so you didn't have any proof of it... just juvenile ranting. Gotcha. Proof, what is the point, you never believe aything anyone says that does not support your position, you only see the GOP mantra.

And what laws would those be? Terri Schiavo, abortion, stem cell research [feeble_reply] Schiavo - please show me where it says "God says it is bad" in [snip hot air] But again, that doesn't make for as good of a Bush-bash... [/feeble_reply] Well you lost. Seems like most of the country thinks Bush is full of shit, this "will of god" BS is just another thing that pisses me off about him and some other members of the GOP. Did I mention you lost :)

And what laws would those be? Terri Schiavo, abortion, stem cell research

I love this part You'd hardly know he was an elected representative of the people.

I think they are more into "do as I say" rather than "do as I do". The only way they resign is if they are being being prosecuted or in some cases going to jail is seems. You mean like Foley? In contrast, let's look at William Jefferson. No I mean more like this (ney) http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/13/ney.ap/index.html P.S. We're talking about the conservatives. They set themselves up on "holier than thou" pedastals and have further to fall. But nice try to divert the attention. Ever heard of glass houses?

I think they are more into "do as I say" rather than "do as I do". The only way they resign is if they are being being prosecuted or in some cases going to jail is seems.

Don't forget Duke Cunningham just started 8+years for corruption as well and now this http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/13/abramoff.nonprofits.ap/index.html