CDRINF

When are we going to have the day on 24 when Jack does his laundry for a few hours? CDR

Absolutely! I have many friends who have got out of the Army over the years. Without exception, they said that what got them hired was not their technical background and hard skills, even for the guys who had been in technical MOSs. The number one selling point from the military that got them hired was that at a compartively young age, they had supervised double and triple digit numbers of people. You might be in the corporate world for 10 years before you end up heading up a project team of 3 or 4 people, yet a 25 year old Infantry squad leader will be in charge of 8. and a 30 year old PSG will be in charge of 30 or 40. A high level of responsibility at a young age will trump technical skills on the resume. So, don't disdain service in the combat arms. Also, as I am currently in Afghanistan as an advisor to the Afghan Army (for 7 more days - woo-hoo! ), I can tell you that there are quite a lot of Air Force and Navy logistics and maintenance types helping the Army out with this job. The Army is out of people and the Blue Suiters are filling in traditionally Army jobs, especially when it comes to Afghan Army logistics. As for recruiters, I have never been one. In fairness to them, they are not liars, but face the fact that they are salesmen selling a product. They will pitch their product in the most attractive light possible. Bottom line: It's a volunteer military. Once you raise your right hand, you have volunteered for anything that may happen to you. Trying to game the system to figure out how to join and get the benefits, but avoid getting shot at is not a good approach. It will only lead to a disapointing, headlong crash into reality at some point. Best approach if he is serious is to get all of the facts, and understand fully what he is getting into. CDR 23 years in and still dodging IEDs. 7 days and a wake up!

As others have said, marital status has no bearing on deployment status. What is true, is that from an official standpoint in terms of pay, benefits, and information, fiance's and girlfriends have no legal standing. Wives, however, get ID cards and all of the benefits: PX, medical care, housing allowance, and the ability to be tied into the family support network. In blunt, unpleasent terms: if the worst happens, the girlfriend/fiance' won't get the flag, Mom and Dad will. CDR

The five people I have known personally in this sport who died skydiving were all highly experienced jumpers who had been jumping for many years. The risk is always there. The perception of risk, however, probably does change over time. These are broad generalizations, but as a new student you are nervous and worried that any of a thousands things could conspire to kill you. After a while you get over the lump in your throat nervousness, get cocky and think that the risk is no big deal. The most dangerous thing out there, in my opinion, is a skydiver with 200-600 jumps who is over the initial fear and thinks he's invinceable. Then after you have been around long enough to see several very experienced friends get seriously hurt or killed, the reality that the risk is always present sinks in. At this point you either accept the ever present risk as part of the sport, or you hang it up as not worth it. As others have said: don't ever get complacent. CDR

Harry was my first skydiving mentor. Back when he ran the Fort Campbell club in the late 80's, he was the guy who transitioned me from flailing student to real skydiver. He taught me RW, he took me to my first civilian DZ, turned me on to where I could do my first night jump, and sold me my first rig. He made me assume responsibility as the DZSO and started me on the road to being a jumpmaster (back when we had that rating). Once when I was apprehensive about getting out at 2500, he said "Chris, you are going to be doing demos where if you don't get out at two grand, you won't get out at all." His confidence in me that I would one day be doing demos meant a lot. Once, after a bad accident at Son DZ at Campbell (non-fatal) he gathered all of the new jumpers in the bleachers and said "Don't walk away from this thinking this is 'sport death'. This is something that if you are in this sport long enough, you are going see happen. Now, lets talk about how it happened." That reality check has always stayed with me. It is a dangerous sport, but can be done safely. Learn from every incident. Harry was notorious for his bad spots. When his reserve air delivery unit got called up for Desert Storm, they were dropping humanitarian assistance to the Kurds. Some bundles wiped out a couple of dwellings and that showed up on the news. Of course we all joked that Harry must have been spotting. I had not seen him since 1991 when I left Campbell. He was gone by the time I returned in 1998. I had tracked him down to Virginia and was hoping to look him up when I return from Afghanistan. I am very saddened that I won't get to do that now. He was one of the good guys. Blue Skies Harry. Airborne! Chris Reed D-15996

Hey Katie! I am a lapsed S/L I. Could not stay current in the land o' turbines. Command and assorted other stuff kept me from getting my AFF-I. About three more months left here in Afghanistan! Need to jump BAD! Blue Skies! CDR

"All you need to do is stand up real straight, make your bed real neat, and always answer every question with 'Yes, Drill Sergeant ' " Forrest Gump I just gave up command of an Infantry training battalion at Fort Benning last year. I will second everyone's recommendation of "get it in writing." Once the privates got to me, it was too late to change things, except in very limited circumstances. Recruiters don't necessarily lie, but they do package the truth attractively. They are salesmen. They will tend to steer guys to where they have quotas to meet. So, tell him to hold out for what he wants. Don't buy the line that "there are no openings available for X, or Y, but have you thought about Z?" He probably has a requirement to fill "Z" that month. I would recommend against going 18X (SF Option) because: 1) I am old school and feel you have no business going Special Forces unless you are an experienced officer or NCO who has mastered the basics and developed some maturity in the Army. 2) I saw lots of wide-eyed young 18 year olds who got all hyped up about being a "Green Beret" who when confronted with the reality of Army life, and that things were not near as easy as they thought, dropped out of the program. They were now "11B, Needs of the Army." In my personal opinion, 18X is a bit of a scam. It gets guys in the door, but the attrition rate is very high and once a guy bolos out, you have an 11B. If he is truly interested in Special Ops, I would recommend going the Ranger or Airborne route as the entry level for a private. Beyond that, especially if going to Fort Benning: - Be in shape and be aclimatized. 90 degree + humid temperatures are common at Fort Benning in the summer. Infantry is an outdoor sport and a contact sport. - Do what you are told. - Help your buddies and pitch in on any task. - You have made a commitment and signed a contract. You can't just try it out to see if you like it and if not, quit (you'd be amazed at the number of guys who believe that). - Be ready for the culture shock of leaving behind your former life. No cell phone, no internet, no contact with the outside world for at least the first 3 weeks, and very little after that. For the current generation of young people who have been on line and connected their whole lives, this is a HUGE shock. - You will face the reality that you are not as tough as you claim to be, but you will find out that you are a lot tougher than you truly think you are. Follow Me! CDR

I'd like to hear his story, but with his strange ramblings, the guy is his own worst enemy. I was starting to wonder if in a previous life his online handle was "Treetop." I have to side with the Mods on this one. The proliferation of convoluted mudslinging, vague inuendo, and slightly obscene sentence fragments are what killed rec.skydiving. CDR

Fort Campbell Sport Parachute Club opened in April 1958, jumping on Yamato DZ, later renamed Son DZ. Campbell and Bragg jumpers always went back and forth over who was first. CDR

Borrow a rig? You know, it is possible to still jump without the electronic security blanket. Use to be that no one would do RW with you if you wore an AAD. An early selling point of the Cypres was that the control unit was hidden under the reserve flap so no one could tell you had one. Times change. CDR

.....I MEAN, I MEAN, I'm sittin' here on the bench, I'm just sittin' here on the Group W bench, because you want to know if I'm moral enough to join USPA, pull low, base jump, and hook turn after doing a demo without a pro-rating.

Sounds like Tom "CyPiras". That incident did more for the acceptance of the Cypres by experienced jumpers than anything else. People figured that if it could happen to Tom Piras, it could happen to anyone. CDR

Anyone here jump at the TRANSPO '72 airshow at Dulles Airport? I was 8 years old, living in Arlington, VA at the time. My neighbors took me, since my Dad was in Vietnam. I remember watching the skydiving demo with great fascination. It was the first time I had seen skydiving "live." A lot of us kids went running out to the landing area after the landing. I remember being even more fascinated by these wild, hippie looking guys all geared up in their kit. They all seemed absolutely thrilled by the jump they just made. I distinctly remember the huge smiles on their faces. It was probably part of what started me down the road of becoming a skydiver. Just wondered if any of you were there. CDR

Hmmm...all very interesting comments. Always funny that many, civilians especially think we have more rules in the military than we really do. As a an Army O-6 and former battalion commander with almost 23 years service (god, wasn't I a 2LT skydiving at Fort Campbell just a little while ago?) I think I can comment with some authority, and maybe clear up some myths from a larger perspective. Despite what lot of us think when we are down in the trenches, there is no big THEY who can swoop down from on high and get you in trouble for stuff you do. Bottom line is that only your immediate commander can ever prosecute you for anything, unless the higher command has withheld the authority to deal with a particular offense. The safety office, the IG, and the JAG can give their opinion, but they do not command the unit. Lawyers advise, commanders decide, as they say. There is no big reg out there that says "no skydiving" or even "you have to get permission to skydive"; it doesn't exist. The commander does have broad legal power (more than many realize, to include the commanders themselves) to deal with anything he feels hurts the good order and discipline of his unit. That said, most are not dumb enough to try to dictate un-enforceable policy about off duty activities. If a commander said "no skydiving" then what about skiing, scuba diving, or other sports that risk injury? There is a very prominent serving 4-star who I am told that when he was a brigade Cdr, tried to direct that no officer in his Bde would ride a motorcycle. His higher commander and the IG advised that this was probably not a smart policy to have and he dropped the issue (so you see, mean old colonels can be influenced, too ). When I was at Fort Campbell, a young private who wanted to go through the Campbell Club first jump course said his platoon sergeant wouldn't let him until he graduated from Air Assault school. I called the guy asked if his company commander had a policy about this? He said no, it was just his decision. I told him he was out of line and that as a command supported MWR activity, he could not stop soldiers from participating anymore than he could stop them from going to the bowling alley. So, be on the lookout for those who overstep their authority. School situations are a bit different. You are on orders to get that training during a specific period of time and the Army (or whoever) wants you healthy and able to get through training in the minimum time. So, you may run in to some military schools that have a policy of not allowing high risk activities during the period of the course. There's a reason we don't let privates drink or even drive a car during basic training, and it's probably pretty sound. The comments above about "In Line of Duty" determination are spot on. If you are jumping TSO'd gear and following BSRs, you are okay. Jump an out of date reserve on a bandit jump low pull contest, and the LOD officer will probably hold you "not in line of duty" for recklessly engaging in thrill or dare-devil activities. You now get to pay your own medical bills. Throughout your career, understand that there are people out there who think it is their job to tell you "no" (like the PSG above) and if you ask enough people for permission, you will find that person. Check the regs and get the facts but beyond that my philosophy, on the job or off, was to not go asking questions I really didn't want the answer to. You really don't know what you can get away with until you try! Good luck! Blue Skies! CDR

Your question pre-supposes that there is such a thing as a "rational wife." Maybe the real problem is she's a control freak. Ask yourself: Do you have to get "permission" from her to do other things? If this is part of a pattern, you need to take decisive action to save your manhood. Try this: Tell her you'll do what you want and to get her bitch-ass in the kitchen and make you a pie! If you walk away without any blood or bruises, you're good to go! CDR

I have jumped in the KC area off and on since 1996 and have called both MRVS and the K-State Club my home DZ. Let me stick up for Midwest skydivers here as a lot of good folks, and the area in general are getting a bad rap. I don’t have a dog in the current fight since my butt is currently grounded in Afghanistan, so I am probably spending more time on dropzone.com than usual. No idea who is making threats or why, but I can provide some insight on what to some is characterized, I believe unfairly, as an overly political, and unfriendly skydiving environment in the KC area. It is not, but there is bad blood in some circles; some real, and some imagined. “Gato” has it generally correct. There is some history that contributed to the environment. There was/is some residual bad feeling in the area after the Greater Kansas City Skydiving (Independence) accident. A while before the crash, GKCS had their USPA Group Membership pulled after USPA received complaints that they were using non-certified AFF instructors. This caused some finger pointing over who tattled on whom. I happen to know the guy who made the call to USPA, and it was in fact a visiting jumper from Hawaii, not a local. He and I were on TDY to Fort Leavenworth, KS at the time, around spring of 1996, and spent several weekends jumping there since it was close to Leavenworth. A couple of years later in 1998, the crash occurred. I won’t go in to detail. It is covered in the FAA report, but there was, and still is, a general feeling by many in the area that the accident was preventable. In the aftermath of the accident, there was a bit more finger pointing about who tattled on whom in regard to aircraft maintenance procedures; more bad blood. So, this is where the accusation that the KC area skydiving scene is overly political and unfriendly has some of its origin. Despite what may seem apparent, it was my experience that the skydivers in that area are pretty close knit. All of the area DZs are Cessna operations. The jumpers tend to have a home DZ but move freely among the others. The DZOs all seem to get along well. In fact, if one DZ is having a big event, jumpers from the other DZs will come support it. I have jumped with the Skydive Kansas DZO at a boogie at MRVS; I have jumped K-State’s plane at SD Kansas’ Cessna Boogie (which four of the area planes came to support that year); jumpers from Winterset (Des Moines Skydivers) have come down to jump a Porter at Tom Dolphin’s place; the MRVS crowd all traveled to the Redemption Boogie to support the Lincoln Club; folks came from all over the area to the “No Tornado Boogie” at K-State this fall, and everyone shuts down or curtails ops over Labor Day weekend to go to the Couch Freaks Boogie. It’s really skydiving the way it used to be: small Cessna DZs of close friends spending all weekend jumping and begging the pilot to fly one more load. A big plane coming to the area is still worth a special trip, and everyone turns out to support it. When a couple of folks made a proposal to open a turbine DZ in the KC area in 2006 at Harrisonville, this threw the happy equilibrium into disarray. The new DZOs marketed very aggressively on the internet, promising a full time, seven day a week turbine operation from day one. There were accusations in some circles that they tried to poach staff from the other DZs in the area. They also seemed unwilling to listen to other DZOs who understood the hostility of the local community and tried to warn them off of Harrisonville. Rather than work with the local DZs, the newcomers gave the impression (whether intended or not) that they were bent on cornering the market. These DZOs appeared to enjoy considerable outside support in their efforts, if the posts on this website back in 2005/2006 were any indication. Sadly, they could not make a go of it. I say sadly, because I don’t want to see anyone in the skydiving world fail. The sport is too small. They tried relocating to another airport in the area, and operated for a time, but the promise of a full time turbine DZ never materialized for various reasons. Some have come to blame the other area DZs and the “political” skydiving environment in KC. I don’t think that blame is justified. I think the DZOs simply learned the hard way that it is far easier to start a website and advertise, than it is to build a business. So, yes, somewhere along the way, there may be several people out there with their feelings hurt who would have motivation to make threats. Pretty low class, if you ask me. I say get over it, and get back to jumping and drinking beer! Blue Skies! CDR

Well, you are free to disagree, but go back to the original question: My point, and the point of the original question, is that the accepted PLF technique may not fit every situation, as we often land with more forward momentum now than in days past, but the principles of how to protect your body in a fall do not change. So, you can either try to teach a different technique for each type of landing and hope the student executes the correct one under pressure, or you can drill in the principles that will fit all situations using the PLF as a teaching vehicle. If you look at the larger training methodology, one philosphy is a wrote memorization of a set of steps, perhaps without true understanding. The other is understanding of the why that if done correctly produces a thinking student who will be able to make decisions, not just react. CDR

No, the "natural tendency" is to try to try to absorb all of the shock through your legs and break an ankle, or slam down on a knee, or put your hands out to catch yourself, and in so doing snap a wrist, or bust an elbow. These tendencies have to be trained out by teaching the principles of falling safely. My point is, it is not specific technique but principles that one needs to remember, which you in fact state: energy must be dissipated in a coordinted fashion. Tuck your extremities in, roll on the fleshy parts of the body, not the boney parts, and let the momentum of the fall carry you rather than fighting it. CDR

Even if canopies change, the principles of how to protect your body in a fall remain the same and apply to parachuting or something like gymnastics or martial arts. Feet and knees to gether to absorb shock evenly. Elbows in and hands in close to the body. This helps fight the temptation to throw your arms in front to catch yourself, thus absorbing all of the shock on your hands and wrists. Also prevents flayling arms from smacking the ground and busting an elbow. Head tucked, chin on chest to help prevent a whiplash to your neck. Hit and roll on the fleshy parts of the body, rather than than the bony parts. Let the momentum of the fall carry you rather than fighting against it. .....Or you can just bite it and land like a sack of shit; feet, knees, hands, head. CDR

Learning to pack was part of my FJC back in 1988 at Fort Campbell. It was a week long, and met every night, with half of the course spent learning to pack. It was a requirement to jump your own pack job from the first jump on. Once you packed 10 under supervision, the instructors cleared you to pack unsupervised. The idea was that if you did not have the knowledge of and interest in taking care of your own gear from day one, you didn't need to be there. True, this was a military club, so maybe that model does not work commercially, but it did produce good skydivers who knew their gear and had confidence in their own ability to pack and maintain it. CDR

I've been reading these posts with great envy! Wish I could be there with all of the SDA crew and other Georgia jumpers but I am stuck in this place called Afghanistan. Drink several for me! Note from attached pic there is lots of potential DZ here, but the Farmer McNasties have automatic weapons and RPG's! Blue Skies! Chris Reed D-15996

I could not disagree more. The simple fact in skydiving is that when you exit the plane, for all practical purposes you have just committed suicide unless you take active steps to change your fate. You have control over your gear choices and packing your rig (if you choose to use a packer, you are assuming a risk). You control maintaining your equipment, and control whether you go up. You decide to place your trust in a pilot and plane, you can choose to exit or not, and your actions in the air are on you. You choose where and how to land. True, the idiocy or carelessness of others could be beyond your direct control, but in the larger picture that hardly qualifies as "many things beyond our control". I agree with the posts above. Accidents never "just happen". Blind fate and freak accidents almost never kill people. It is almost always a chain of mistakes that combine to overwhelm the jumper. Break a link or two in the chain, such as not going on jumps over your ability, or not downsizing too quickly, and you will probably be okay. On a personal level, skydiving is the ultimate control over your own fate, provided you are truly skydiving and not just acting as human cargo on a tandem. CDR

There were a number of good Georgia DZs that are no more. I remember the Freefall Ranch quite well. I jumped there in '91-'92. They used to advertise quite heavily in Parachutist and Skydiving with a big pink flamingo logo. I also recall that they were USPA's first big airport access battle. The local county/city tried to run them off by refusing to renew the lease to the building they used. I jumped once at Jenkinsburg as well. It was the old "ASC" and was commonly refered to as "Billy World" after Billy Rhodes, the DZO. I also jumped several times at Peach State Skydiving which I believe was in Covington. My home DZ from 92-96 was Sydive Waycross at Waycross-Ware County Airport run by Jerry Hoekstra as an extension of his operation at Palatka. There was a prison off the end of the runway and we could always see the prisoners in the yard watching us jump. There was a local there, older guy whose name I forget, who always jumped without goggles. It was trip to see his eyelids fluttering in freefall. CDR

WFFC folds Paul Fayard closes his DZ USPA doesn't publish a 2009 calendar "Skydiving" ceases publication. Not sure how much more I can take! CDR

Cessna 182 at Skydive Waycross in Georgia in the mid-90's. Lost the engine on climb out at around 1000 feet. Lots of noise and then all of a sudden a very uncomfortable silence. Jerry Hoekstra, the DZO and pilot racked it around and made it back to the aiport. USPA Safety Day 2007 at Skydive Atlanta, King Air. Trey says if we attend all of the classses we get a free jump! One of the classes was engine out emergency exits. At the end of the day we go up for our free jump, quite pleased with ourselves for showing up early and hanging around all day. Around 5000' I see the eyes of Katie Drennan who is sitting on the potty seat facing forward get as big as saucers. I ask what's up and she points and says in a hoarse whisper "the prop just stopped!" Trey says "exit on your mains" and we all get up and exit to a hop and pop as we had been taught in class. During opening I see jumpers streaming out and the plane chug along merrily in stable flight. It occurs to me that we had just been had and I remember shouting "You cheap mother-fucker!" We all had a good laugh at our own expense and got the benifit of a live engine out exit rehearsal. CDR