sinker

reply to vinnie the anvil and wendy... too lazy to cut and paste... Now, how did I know abortion was going to come up?? Vinnie, I agree w/ almost everything you said. Man, that was some rant and I enjoyed all of it!!! The issue I have w/ the whole abortion thing is this... When human life begins is NOT a subjective thing, like Vinnie says. Just b/c science cannot yet quantify something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Perhaps the tools or ability just hasn't evolved yet. Also, with the advent of recent court decisions that speak to the protection of Cletus the Fetus from assault, state of the art inutero surgeries on Cletus (remember the TIME photo of the babies arm and hand sticking up out of the womb?), not to mention all the advertising that now openly uses the term "baby" when refering to pregnancies, I'm not so sure we can say life doesn't begin at conception. And I'm SURE we cannot say that life begins when I "think" it begins, like for Bill Mahr it is when the baby takes it's first breath or for others it's when brain waves develop or, as Roe v Wade said, when the fetus reaches viability. The only problem is is that viability is not a static moment in time. As medical science has progressed, fetal viability occurs far earlier in a pregnancy. So, my point is this... It would seem to me that if there is ANY doubt or questions about when human life begins, THEN the obvious choice, the prudent choice, the ONLY choice, is to err on the side of caution and not allow abortions. The pro life crowd yells that abortion is murder. Pretty strong statement. What if they are right? What if medical science is able to determine that human life DOES start at conception and that once conception occurs, the product of conception is not a potential human being, but a human being with potential? That's a haunting thought to think that we might have "murdered" 1.5 million "babies" every year since Roe v Wade was passed. (I believe that is the Alan Gutmacher Institute's stat from Planned Parenthood, but not positive) The problem with this is that for someone who gets pregnant, especially as a result of birth control failure, it's hard to NOT live with the availability of abortion, which all too often is looked at as the fail-safe birth control. I've always thought that hey, if you're going to play, accept the damn consequences. I mean really folks, pregnancy DOES happen only as a result of sex. (gee, really?) But most people I know aren't willing to give up their "sex w/o responsibilities" lifestyle. like lewmonster, I won't duck for cover from the ensuing flames and hot forks... bring em on... -the artist formerly known as sinker

yeah baby YEAH!!!! -the artist formerly known as sinker

oh, don't you worry honey, I won't be neglecting your posts anymore, especially since I know you ride a harley. don't mess w/ girls who ride harleys... -the artist formerly known as sinker

well, glad you're not cookin up some bad juju for me... but, why is forgiveness never needed? we do things that sometimes hurt each other's feelings, some intentional, some not. or is that your way of saying it's water under the bridge and don't get your panties in a wad over it... -the artist formerly known as sinker

-the artist formerly known as sinker

you still haven't said if you forgive me for ignoring you... you're not the invisible woman... -the artist formerly known as sinker

you make very good points and I agree, the questions should be answered. Again, this is the first I've ever heard of it. -the artist formerly known as sinker

/smacks forhead w/ hand/ JEESH!!! And you thing I'm clueless for admiring SOME of the things Bush has done? Oral isn't sex? Perjury is admirable? OMG... When will YOU be running for office? -the artist formerly known as sinker

yes you did. I just looked up again and saw it. very sorry Wendy, I didn't mean to ignore you I promise not to do it again forgive me? -the artist formerly known as sinker

I couldn't agree with you more. That is why, for many years, I didn't vote. I had a hard time voting for who I considered the "lesser of two evils." I still do have a hard time with it. -the artist formerly known as sinker

Thanks for the post. I will most definately look into this. I'm surprised though to have never heard anything about this in the past. Even from the left. It didn't come out in the elections that I recall or anything else. I don't remember being comatose during that time either, although anything is possible. You also wrote: I would have to say that it certainly has not been proven, but it would seem that it is not all above board. to which I reply: why would it seem that everying is not above board? There may be an explanation for it that is totally above board. Maybe not. I'm troubled by the notion in our society (as justifiable as it is) to presume guilt before presuming innocence. Again, thanks for the links. I will be giving this my attention... -the artist formerly known as sinker

***Ah well, different people have different standards. I would consider lying to my wife less of a moral failing than killing ten thousand people - and then having people find out that the stated reason I did it did not exist. *** point taken. but again, this is assuming that bush is lying and will lie about WMDs. To those opposed to the war, if any are found, it'll be easy to say we planted them. To those for the war, it'll be easy to say that if there were none found, that they were moved just prior to the war or destroyed or whatever. Bottom line is that if Bush did and is lying about it, like Chris, I'll be one of the first to stand in line denouncing him. -the artist formerly known as sinker

yeah Bill, we all lie. We've all lied. But we should try not to. We should ESPECIALLY try not to if we have taken an oath not to. Whether that oath be towards being faithful to one's spouse or to telling the truth under oath before the court. Unfortunately, lies and infidelities are so common place that we have denegrated the importance of truth and fidelity. Just b/c everyone's doing it doesn't make it any less abhorant, any less wrong. -the artist formerly known as sinker

you're assuming, I think, that if WMD's are not found, that GWB lied about it. There are more possible reasons for why WMD's may not be found. Just b/c they aren't found doesn't ipso facto mean that he lied about it. -the artist formerly known as sinker

Sorry my friend, then I'd have to say your standards are set too low. -the artist formerly known as sinker

sorry if I misunderstood you, but it seemed to me that you were trying to accuse me of having a double standard with regards to these issues, which I agree, many people have. Again, if that wasn't your intent, please accept apologies. for me it all has to do w/ thinking for yourself and using the intelligence you were (hopefully) born with. People on the left often accuse people on the right, (esp. right-winging christians) that they follow the herd, cannot think for themselves, etc. But you know, people on the left often do the same exact thing -- vote down party lines. this applies to the issue of excusing a member of one's own party of certain mistakes/sins/lapses in judgement/poor choices but crucifying members of the opposite party who do the same damn thing. Infidelity is infidelity. Perjury is perjury. Desertion IS desertion, I don't care WHO did it. -the artist formerly known as sinker

If he did desert, that means ALOT! Can someone give me more info on this? This is the first I've ever heard of it. -the artist formerly known as sinker

thanks chris -the artist formerly known as sinker

I like some things Bush has done, I don't like others. I don't vote down party lines. Those that do tend to be myopic in my opinion. Truth and principles govern my decisions, not political party affiliation. I was not aware that Bush had deserted. If he did, then yes I have no problem denouncing him for that. I also denounce him for all the people who have been executed in the state of Texas. I am not universally against the death penalty, but too many case have popped up in recent years wherein the guilt of the "dead man walking" was in question. The moritorium on executions that Illinois did was, IMHO, a very good thing. So, you cannot accuse me of being hypocritical in this area. Sorry. (edited for spelling, or is that editted... ah, fuck it) -the artist formerly known as sinker

perjury is still perjury no matter WHAT THE FUCK IT WAS ABOUT. If it was about a lousy little incidental affair that had nothing whatsoever to do w/ his ability to run a nation (which I think it DOES), then why did he lie about it? His willingness to lie about "little things" (under oath) says lots about his possible willingness to lie about bigger things. Perjury is perjury. Period. End of sentence. -the artist formerly known as sinker

He committed perjury. He committed perjury. He committed perjury. Didn't like that he was getting blown under his desk. Esp since he is the leader of this country and he set a VERY bad example for the US, esp children. But others have done it too. Doesn't make it right, but at least I'm consistent and will not play party lines on it. But after it all, Clinton committed perjury. That is the worst of it. Perjury. -the artist formerly known as sinker

a mostly educational post... thanks to all for contributing. Being a low timer, I'm all about being conservative and being under a forgiving canopy. I think my first new main will be a mild seven cell, spectre or tri, that is conservatively loaded. After all, I still get a little spooked doing spirals under a 265 (1:1 loading). my question is, the talk of videos of folks burning in... where are they? Please, I mean no disrespect and I don't ask out of morbid curiosity. But, seeing the possible benefit of such video, does anyone have any? -the artist formerly known as sinker

selling our house now and buying a bigger pad room for bytch to crash... but wait we haven't met, but that don't bother me all one family moving stresses me out wife is getting very big bun in the oven once we move i'm free to jump at archway dz already made friends marc and anne are swell have made me feel at home there without meeting yet man my haiku sucks but shit it is fun to write helps relieve the stress. -the artist formerly known as sinker

yeah baby, YEAH! Those are priceless. -the artist formerly known as sinker

Glad to hear you are doing well!!! Congrats on getting back in the air! Hope to someday meet you and jump together. Wish you continued healing and good vibes.... -the artist formerly known as sinker