base428

I've been negotiating to purchase a new landing area under the NRGB for over two years. Some recent developments have prompted this post. The land for sale encompasses approximately 3.5 acres from the current NPS-owned Bridge Day LZ to beneath the bridge. It also runs from the river to beyond the railroad tracks. Once cleared, this new landing area would be larger and safer for jumpers. Anyway, after hashing out boundaries, prices, zoning, and a bunch of other stuff that has already cost me hundreds of dollars and too much time, I just found out that my bid has been rejected because the land owners are trying to sell to the NPS. The current landowners actually have 90+ acres with an asking price of $325k, but the small 3.5 acre parcel that was specifically selected for me was priced at $55k. In the past, the NPS offered $150k for the entire 90 acres, but the landowners rejected this. Through the sale of individual lots, they wanted to raise $110k or more, because by piecing it out they would make more. Since the landowners were unable to piece out the property to their liking, they have now gone to Congressman Nick Rahall and asked if he could help in gaining additional government funding for the NPS to purchase the 90 acres. The government would pay the appraised value of the property. Congressman Rahall has reportedly told the landowners that it is likely he'll be able to obtain the funding, but it won't happen until later this year at the earliest. In addition to the purchase above, I've also been talking to the Dept. of Highways, my Congressmen, Senators, Governor, Fayette County Chamber of Commerce, and local newspapers regarding an expansion of Bridge Day to 3 days minimum. If you have the time, read THIS. Obviously, having our own LZ would make the above plan to much smoother. It might take an act of Congress for the NPS to permit an additional 2 days of jumping and the NPS is reportedly going to raise my special use permit fees this year ($660 last year for 8 hours time). Imagine the fees for three days! So, in talking with the landowners, they are going to wait and see if Congressman Rahall can get them the funds to purchase their property and it'll become part of the NPS. However, I asked them how much money it would take for us to purchase the new LZ and halt their plan to sell to the NPS. They reported that $110k of sales would stop their dealings with Congressman, which may involve 15-30 acres. Therefore, if anyone out there is interested in investing money in having our own LZ, please contact me ASAP. We don't have a lot of time, and I hate to see all this work be wasted. I do not have the money to do this myself, but I don't want to see the NPS purchase the property. Plus, if our three day Bridge Day event is approved, your investment could be paid back in a matter of years. If everyday legal jumping were approved in conjunction with the proposed "catwalk tours" venture that someone else is working on, then the property purchase would be even more valuable to the BASE community. There is a ton more information and details that I can convey to you if needed. This isn't all about Bridge Day, and my main interest in this is to permit more jumping at the NRGB, period. I just want to jump legally and not have to fight the NPS anymore! By having our own LZ, we have solved a large part of the problem and made another step toward legal jumping. I have been talking to everyone I can on radio, newspapers, and TV about legal jumping in the area. Today, there was another article in the paper about legal jumping and it was very positive. Any thoughts on what to do next? Anyone interested in this? I need to generate at least $110k to get these guys to sell, or cross my fingers and hope the Congressman doesn't come through. The attached picture shows the prime LZ (3.5 acres). Any additional property is below the bridge and downstream. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

I've got a few Pelican 1650's, but Hardigg's cases are better... Hardigg Storm Cases Storm Cases are lighter and their latches are far better. Your fingers will thank you later.... (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

All, Rick Harrison asked me to post this....it sounds like we all have different versions of the origin/purpose of the logo, but here's the real deal..... ------- RICK: I seem to recall that Max Dereta is his name. He drew the design for Carl in about 1982. Carl and Jean told me this story years ago, (and Jean and I had a similar discussion when we got most of the patches from her nearly 2 years ago), When he gave them the design, he told them they could only use it to promote BASE jumping. I think he was brought into the issue a couple years later when he saw someone with the logo on a shirt. As I recall, he complained to Jean but she assured him the USBA had nothing to do with it. Someone copied it and did shirts. Anyway, when we all showed up as staff at B Day 83, Carl and Jean had nice yellow polo type shirts for all of us, about 8 guys, that had our names embroidered on them below the BASE patch, so the patch was designed long before the 90's. The patches we have are from the original batch. I think she had about 500 at first and had less than 200 when she gave us 125. We still have under 100 left and Jean charges $15.00 each. We send her the money because her and Carl paid for them to be constructed by a very quality patch maker. I do think that giving them out only to BASE jumpers serves the interests of BASE and we've never made any profit off of these. They are a cool patch, however, contrary to the last post by 704 on BASE Zone, the patches were never issued in lieu of a card. All it takes to qualify to buy one is to have made one BASE jump. I wish it were for BASE numbers, but Joy and I won't change the original intent. Not sure what we'll do when they run out. They went like hot cakes for about a month after we posted on the Board, but then it slowed down. I suspect this new thread will stimulate a little interest. Take care. Rick and Joy (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

Steve was a very talented artist and BASE jumper and he showed me some of his designs in the early 90's. He mentioned to me that he had something to do with the design. Might have been another logo? I dunno, but I haven't seen Steve for many years (he's the guy who did the 63' cliff jump). (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

I think it was designed (redesigned?) by an old friend, Steve Ball. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

Sorry for not replying until now. Within our group, there seems to be three different opinions: (1) Unrestricted access to jump sites. (2) Moderately restricted access with some rules. (3) A licensing system with a moderate amount of rules. There is much disagreement about which approach we'll take. Basically, we've agreed to shoot for item #1 above, at least until we're requested to look at #2 or #3. Keep in mind that I've not given much description to the three items above. Anyway, if we were permitted to jump again, I believe that item #1 would result in chaos, confusion, and eventually another ban. Jumpers are rule breakers by nature. Plus, many of our legal jump sites around the world have "some" rules in place and these rules are not that hard to follow. For example, having an XX jump minimum for certain jump sites may be a good idea. Also, having XX number of skydives to jump in National Parks might also be a good rule to have. I wouldn't worry too much, because even item #3 above would allow pretty much everyone on this forum to be included. We're just looking out for the guy with 5 skydives who wants to jump his Wonderhog/Sabre off of Half Dome. So that's all the info we have so far. Nothing has been presented to the NPS. We'll ask for everyone's input shortly. Stay tuned. More info will be posted very soon. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

My email address is listed in my profile. I just prefer to answer and send email from one program. Did you email ME? I respond to every email that requires a response. We are still getting our organization in order, so that may be the reason we've not contacted volunteers yet. Once our website is fully functional, your help WILL be needed. Please be patient, as we're still setting things up on our end. Keep in mind there are many people involved in the ABP and we're trying to see where everyone fits in right now. I'm just a board member, and there are a few jumpers who are higher up than I. I'm just one of the few who, for some odd reason, continues to post to this forum. Go figure. Huh? I think Tom summed this up pretty well above, so I'll let this rest. Anyway, thanks for offering to help. Please resend your original email if you can. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

I threw my 2 cents into this thread, but I didn't want to get this involved.....therefore, I'll try to be brief. In most cases, BASE training should be comprehensive and tailored to "this is what you'll need to know later on". However, there are exceptions. Even Bridge Day is a good exception because most new jumpers there never take a first jump course. All they may get is a 1 hour "how not to die" course. They get no formal training, especially in the areas of site evaluation, ethics, etc. So is Bridge Day bad? Bottom line is that it depends on the situation, but generally a full blown course is best. I don't think paragliders are the type to rush off to jump their local 130' bridge with an ebay rig. While on the subject of FJC's, I'm working on implementing a full blown FJC this year at Bridge Day. Interested instructors please email me for details. The course would entail several days of training before BD and then guidance during your student's first jump. Cya. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

I don't have a problem with PG pilots being tossed off the Potato Bridge because these guys probably have more canopy experience than most jumpers. How do I know this? I've flown some wings in my time and I'm friends with several PG pilots. However, if Miles were catering to whuffos with zero time under a parachute, then I would have issues with it. I'm trying to open access at cliffs in National Parks. So, comparing this to an already legal, state-owned bridge is not really a good comparison. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

Faber, The Potato bridge is an easy jump, as you'll see if you get the chance to jump it someday. Have you ever flown a wing? PG pilots know far more than we do about canopy flight. If you wanna talk about the fatality list, then do so in the proper thread. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

OJ, BASE jumpers love to bitch and moan, so is it really a surprise to hear everyone complaining? Too many people are ready to jump down your throat lately. On the positive side, at least you're catering to people who already have some, if not more, knowledge about parachutes than we do. Even I am guilty of taking several jumpers with no skydives on their first BASE jump (they didn't have a comfy little river below). I'd bet there are quite a few people on this forum that have taken whuffos for a quick first BASE jump as well. Ironically, a local PG pilot offered to teach me a few things last summer. He took me under his "wing" and I made a bunch of flights here in WV. I really appreciated that he offered to show me his sport and I had a ton of fun. So, if you guys want to throw some experienced paragliders off the bridge, then I say GO FOR IT. Have fun. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

Tom, you should post the details of your free first BASE jump course on that PG forum. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

When I started this thread, I did so with good intentions. I wanted to express my opinion on the list, as well as gain insight toward what others think. If anything, I knew that good ideas may result from healthy discussion. Maybe the title of the thread should have been "Modify" rather than "Remove" the list. Maybe I should have just asked for opinions on the subject. I guess I think differently than most of you and my personality doesn't always permit me to suppress my opinions (good or bad). That being said, I apologize to Nick if my post came off incorrectly, as this was not my intention. Rhondalea and Karen, you are both wonderful people with great insight. Keep up the good work. Dennis, we are both base jumpers and bickering only serves to bring us both down. I apologize for my reactionary posts. Cya all at the exit point. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

I call them like I see them. Trust me, I've nothing to lose. BASE jumping is a very small part of my life. This thread is about the fatality list, so if anyone cares to continue that discussion, feel free. I still have the opinion that the list needs to be modified. RhondaLea: Thanks for the analysis, but you obviously didn't read it like I did. Dennis posts nothing but personal attacks. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

Dennis Parrotte, your posts reak with inaccurate facts, misconceptions, and your own insecurities in life as well your job. So, no need for me to return fire..... CYA! (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

Before I posted this, I knew that many of you would disagree with me. But what I also knew was that new ideas may be offered that could make things better. Discussions like this can be very healthy for the base community. Hopefully, some of these new ideas can be implemented. Thanks. PS. Truckerbase: The Alliance of Backcountry Parachutists is a non-profit organization that I'm involved with and we're working to gain fair and equal access to National Parks. The 10+ board members, including myself, HAVE NO COMMERCIAL INTERESTS in this. We're simply working hard for YOU so that YOU can have more places to jump. I have put more hours into the ABP in the last three months than you can imagine. So I take offense to your routine illogical and poorly thought out insinuations that I have any commercial interests. And to the hard working folks who sell BASE videos or organize commercial events - MORE POWER TO YOU. Truckerbase, if you have a problem with commercial events, you can always stay home. Cya. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

I'm confused. Jumpers don't care about forums, but they somehow find their way to the fatality list? And this list is mysteriously weeding out the bad ones? Usually the bad ones don't care about a fatality list anyway. I think everyone is overrating the list as some kind of necessary tool to review before they get into base. How many of you honestly read it BEFORE you started jumping? How many of you understood it? If Joe Skydiver doesn't know the risks of BASE before he makes his first jump, is the list really going to help? However, the list is probably much more valuable to the amateur or experienced jumper because he/she can analyze the list and understand every aspect of it. Either way, I think everyone agrees the list is valuable to US. Not THEM. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

Hey Ian, More great comments and thanks for posting. As I said when I originally posted this, I knew that most people want it to stay intact. And I think that it can stay as long as it's changed. My views might be quite different than the majority, but that doesn't mean they are bad. I deal with the NPS and the media quite a bit more than the average jumper, so maybe my views are slanted. Regardless, as I mentioned before, some great ideas have resulted from this and that was my original intention. Good to chat with you.....my crazy, dental hygenically challenged friend!!! Cya. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

I think that we are developing some great ideas here. Sometimes a collaborative effort is the best way to get good input and develop a system that is beneficial for all. Chuckbrown, my thoughts on this base list were not driven by climbers comments. I have talked to Nick about this for quite some time. As an experienced jumper who actively follows the forums, I'm don't have as much use for the list as others do. But I would never want to take away the lessons learned from these incidents. I think there is some common ground here. Maybe cleaning up the fatality list so that it's not so dark would be a good start. Remove the red 85 at the top. Turn it into more of an informative, educational tool. Heck, include commentary on "how this accident could have been prevented". Provide links to positive BASE websites or another page that lists other statistics about the sport. Maybe even remove the numbering system applied to each fatality? If the list is truly for educational and memorial purposes, who cares about the tally? Thanks for the good discussion so far. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

I apologize if bringing this into the public forum is not what you wanted. But I feel that everyone should know the facts and provide input. This affects us all. Nick, remember the private email I sent you regarding this? "They" are analyzing your list as we speak. I have written proof. Unfortunately, I have been asked to not divulge the details of this until later. If anyone claims 100 fatalities a year, it could be disproven through our own records. Nobody really knows how many base jumpers there are in the US, and that lack of information typically persuades the media to shy away from guessing. Sorry man, that is just the name I have called it for years. It's a lot easier to say than "Nick's BASE Fatality List". (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

That's your opinion. Have you read some of the climber forums? Have you read the public comments on the websites that posted the dam carnage video? We have a very bad image. Morbidly listing dead jumpers as well as the official death toll (85) in large red numbers at the top of the page DOES present our sport as grossly suicidal, in my opinion. Easily done. The password can be passed on verbally or via private email to interested parties. This is very similar to the showing of bounce videos to newbies (private and effective, and there to see if you are interested). The death list is eternal. News stories aren't. Because Blinc belongs on the fatality list. This forum is more effective and efficient. I know that some jumpers have a fascination with death. I also know that many jumpers will want to keep the list. But, when I truly believe in something, I'm not going to keep quiet. If the general consensus is to keep the list, then hopefully Nick can at least add some additonal information on there to show the positive aspects of our sport. Thanks for your comments Craig. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

Another interesting climber/jumper thread from a few years ago (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

The BASE Fatality List maintained by NickDG is hurting the BASE community and is damaging our fight for fair access throughout the world. While I can appreciate its educational value, the "death list" grossly exaggerates how dangerous our sport can be and vilifies BASE jumping as a suicidal hobby for lunatics. The death list is routinely being referenced by websites, news reports, the NPS, and numerous non-jumping forums throughout the world. Whenever positive BASE jumping discussions are started, it never fails that the death list is brought into the equation and BASE jumping is once again looked down upon. How many other sports keep track of their dead? How many other death lists have a photo of the grim reaper's sister next to a big "85" at the top of the page? Why does Nick's death list invite press inquires at the bottom? If we are ever going to change the negative stereotype that surrounds us wherever we go, then the death list must be removed or password protected. The death list is indexed by many website search engines, so it's quite easy for anyone to find the current death count. The media routinely references the number of dead in every injury, incident, or fatality story. This is very damaging to our sport. If you'd rather continue jumping at night and getting arrested everywhere you go, then you may not find Nick's death list as detrimental to our sport. If you'd like to see the public's perception of BASE jumpers change for the better and promote fair and equal access in National Parks and other sites around the world, then you might agree with me. I'm sure that some of you will see the list for its "remembrance" value rather than the harm is it doing to our sport and I fully respect that. I've made several offers to password protect NickDG's death list, but he respectfully declined citing "personal reasons". I'm still unsure of what his personal reasons are, but his recent fake suicide posting on this forum leads me to believe he's obsessed with death. Don't get me wrong - I like NickDG and I consider him a friend. But this is just something we both disagree on and I'm posting this to see what everyone else thinks. Your thoughts? I recently received information that Nick's death list is also being used by several unfriendly government organizations around the world to show how unsafe our sport is. A quick web search revealed the following links to the Death List: Monday's death is the 79th known base-jumping fatality....according to.....Nick Di Giovanni. ...BASE fatality statistics compiled by....Nick Di Giovanni, there have been 85 deaths worldwide. An example of the hundreds of search engines that have indexed the Death List Wikipedia Encyclopedia Links to BASE Fatality List I suspect clean up duty SUCKS! Nick's BASE Fatality List If I ever bounce on a BASE jump, I don't want be displayed on Nick's death list for the world to see. As an experienced jumper, having my face on the death list would only show that I failed in some way. However, if I grow old and die of natural causes, feel free to put my name on the list as it would be the only positive listing so far. So Nick, why can't you at least password protect the death list? (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

I kept this to myself for a few days and never intended it to get over here, but there is too much valuable beta on the following thread: SuperTopo BASE Thread I felt compelled to post a link here because you all NEED to read the 69+ posts about how climbers feel about BASE jumping. FYI: I started that particular thread because I was not thrilled with previous anti-BASE posts there in the last few months. Also, as you can probably tell, I'm on a warpath to legalize BASE in National Parks. Enjoy. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.

The last thing I'm gonna bring on a BASE trip is my USPA card. But you do have a good point though. Actually, I think that TSA parachute PDF in one of the posts listed above is a valuable tool. Maybe my old CJAA membership card will do? All in fun..... (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted.