piper17

http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/vietnam-people-america-1821074-times-new "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

Largely peaceful after we left??? There are a few million corpses in Vietnam as well as Laos and Cambodia that would seem to indicate otherwise. The Vietnames government continues to kill parts of its population to this very day...in very significant numbers. Remember "yellow rain"? Not what I would call "largely peaceful". Pick up the Wall Street Journal today and read the essay entitled "Another Vietnam" by Max Boot. Read about the "unintended consequences" of pulling out of Vietnam prematurely. In regard to Saudia Arabia, there are major problems with that country and our relationship with them. It is another muslim country with a significant portion of their polulation being muslim extremists. Look at who made up the majority of the 9/11 hijackers. In regard to other muslim counties being the source of insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan, look beyond the so-called mainstream media to find out where they are from. Somalia, Chechnya, various "-stans", the Philippines and China to name a few. We are fighting these same muslim insurgents in Afghanistan as well. Like it or not, this is a global war and we need to take it to the enemy on their home ground. We don't need more 9/11s or London bombings, or Madrid bombings, or Thailand bombings, or Bali bombings etc, etc, etc! "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

The Vietnam war included Laos and Cambodia, in case you are ignorant of the fact. The PAVN used these countries as sanctuaries and logistical bases. US special ops forces operated in these countries throughout the war and the regular forces invaded Cambodia in 1970 to disrupt the PAVN efforts in an effort to buy time for Vietnamization to work. You still don't want to admit that tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Vietnamese died in re-education camps and attempting to flee the country in the years following the "liberation" of the Republic of South Vietnam by the communist north. Do you remember that China invaded North Vietnam in 1979 and their respective armies fought in Vietnam and Cambodia at great loss of life on both sides and to the civilian population as well? Keep Iraq contained??? With Iran and Syria deeply inolved in supplying arms of all types to the insurgents? Barn door is wide open and the horses are long done on that front! The insurgents in Iraq that have been captured or killed are from muslim countries all over the world. This is a GLOBAL war...and there is no containing it! I am concerned about the number of innocent Iraqi people being killed but, in case you haven't noticed, they are being killed almost entirely by the insurgents. As far US and coalition troops being killed, as an Army veteran (1967-1970), I am well aware of the cost in US and coalition troops lives...just as I was aware of the loss of lives of my fellow soldiers (friends) forty years ago! As far as violence in Vietnam decreasing in the years since we left, I guess you say the same about the Soviet Union after Stalin's purges, gulags, etc, Castro's Cuba, North Korea, the PRC and every other communist country in the world. http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-69-524/life_society/boat_people/ http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-69-524-2706/life_society/boat_people/clip2 If you think the killing by the communist Vietnamese has stopped, read about the Montagnards and what the Vietnamese communist government continues to do to them today here: http://www.montagnard-foundation.org/homepage.html "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

Little bloodshed??? Where were you in the 70s and 80s. Obviously, too young to read newspapers, watch the news, read books, or listen to personal accounts. Ever hear of the "killing fields", boat people being preyed upon by pirates, Thai refugee camps filled with South Vietnamese escaping from the communists, re-education camps (where thousands died of starvation, beatings, etc)? Are you the same as John Kerry who seems to think that these events are of no real consequence? "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

Bill Womble was killed in CT while acting as a tandem master in the 80s. It was not a test jump. He was not employed by a parachute company at the time although he had worked for Pioneer Parachute company a number of years earlier. He dropped out of jumping for a number of years and got back into it a couple of years before his death. "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

A rather disingenuous comment. When the Dems were comparing Iraq to Vietnam, they were claiming Iraq to be a quagmire and unwinnable. While it has taken far too long, it would appear that the US government, led by the US military, has finally realised that what is going on in Iraq is an insurgency and is now being fought as such. Many Republicans and some Democrats are finally recognizing that the situation is improving and are saying so. While it is no "done deal" by any means, it does seem to be moving in the right direction now. Bush is talking about the aftermath of the US pullout of Vietnam (and much of SEA) and the bloodbath that occurred in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam (to say nothing of the communists' "re-education" camps, boat people etc). The Democrats don't like the references to the US pullout of RVN and the subsequent Congressional cut-off of financial and logistical support of the ARVN. They hate to be reminded of the "killing fields" of SEA but they seem determined to repeat it in the Middle East. "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

Evidently, you are unfamiliar with the writings of John Locke. I would suggest you read him. His writings influenced the Founding Fathers...including the rights of man and from where those rights came. You, apparently, have your mind made up and you are incapable or unwilling to make the connections. "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

There is a lot in the various links but here are a few: "The evidence of [the] natural right [of expatriation], like that of our right to life, liberty, the use of our faculties, the pursuit of happiness, is not left to the feeble and sophistical investigations of reason, but is impressed on the sense of every man. We do not claim these under the charters of kings or legislators, but under the King of Kings." --Thomas Jefferson to John Manners, 1817. ME 15:124 "Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?" --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XVIII, 1782. ME 2:227 The Right to Bear Arms In a nation governed by the people themselves, the possession of arms to defend their nation against usurpers within and without was deemed absolutely necessary. This right is protected by the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution. A gun was an everyday implement in early American society, and Jefferson recommended its use. "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion of your walks." --Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1785. ME 5:85, Papers 8:407 "The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." --Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. ME 16:45 "One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." --Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796. ME 9:341 "I learn with great concern that [one] portion of our frontier so interesting, so important, and so exposed, should be so entirely unprovided with common fire-arms. I did not suppose any part of the United States so destitute of what is considered as among the first necessaries of a farm-house." --Thomas Jefferson to Jacob J. Brown, 1808. ME 11:432 "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms (within his own lands or tenements)." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution (with his note added), 1776. Papers 1:353 "None but an armed nation can dispense with a standing army. To keep ours armed and disciplined is therefore at all times important." --Thomas Jefferson to -----, 1803. ME 10:365 "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff0100.htm "[These are] the rights which God and the laws have given equally and independently to all." --Thomas Jefferson: Rights of British America, 1774. ME 1:185, Papers 1:121 http://www.lonang.com/foundation/2/f21.htm http://www.guncite.com/journals/vandhist.html This should do for starters as there is much to read. You must also understand the definition of "unalienable rights" and "natural rights" "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

I'm not confusing anything. As an historian by education and avocation, I read the words of the various Founding Fathers and not just the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. Read what these gentlemen had to say about arms, the right to keep and bear arms, the Creator, etc and you will understand. "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

As a citizen of the United States of America, you have the right to keep and bear arms and the other rights covered in the Bill of Rights NOT because the government grants you those rights. The Founding Fathers were quite specific in that these rights were God-given. The Bill of Rights states what these God-given rights are. Also, regarding the right to keep and bear arms, if you do even the tiniest amount of research, you will find that the majority of the individual state constitutions also mention the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms. "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

The Belgian airborne school, as I recall, also used the balloon for jump training...or did in the late 70s - early 80s when I was with Pioneer Parachute Company. Their school was in Diest Schaffen (sp?). "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

Nord Atlas Photo if my attachment works. "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

The French had the Nord Atlas in the World Cup of RW in Mormolon-la-grande (sp?), a French military base near Reims. Yes, it's a twin-engine aircraft. The Nord Atlas was brought in for fun jumps while Porters were used for competition. I seem to recall it having a higher exit speed than we were used to back then...in the days of DC-3s and Cessnas. The Golden Knights were representing the US at the meet. "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

Here in Connecticut we just had a home invasion by two perps with long histories of buglary. They were out of jail on parole, broke into the home of a doctor and his family. They killed the doctor's wife and two daughters 17 and 11 yrs old) and had beaten the doctor with a baseball bat into unconsciousness. When the police arrived at the scene following a tip from a bank teller (the buglars had earlier force the wife to go to a bank and withdraw a large some of money), their SOP was to establish a perimeter, securing the area, and wait for negotiators. While the police were doing this, the burglars killed the three women. Can't fault the police for following SOP but it does show that you need to be able to defend yourself. Too often the police just clean up the aftermath, write reports, and look for the perps after the good citizens have been victimized. Now, even the left-wing media columnists in Connecticut are saying that maybe there is something to owning a firearm for self-defense. Duh! "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

Yep, Bush was wrong about WMDs in Iraq...just as was Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, and a host of other Democrats and Republicans (who all based their opinions on the CIA intelligence assessments) as well as the intelligence services of France, Germany, Italy, etc. The CIA blew it big time...George Tenet and his "slam dunk". Tenet, if you recall, was a Clinton appointee. Bush was stupid not to replace him. "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

Amen to that, Jim. For a number of years, I had the depressing job of writing up the fatality report summaries that would appear each month in Parachutist magazine while serving on the USPA Safety & Training Committee. In all the years I did that, I only remember one fatality when it was probably not avoidable...every other one was preventable. "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

In addition to the Bill of Rights' Second Amendment to the US Constitution and the right of the people to be armed, the vast majority of state constitutions include the right to keep and bear arms....and they do NOT mention having to belong to a state militia. This link www.secondamendmentdocumentary.com/ is in regard to an excellent DVD that studies the history of the right to keep and bears arms...back to England in the middle ages and up to the present time. It draws heavily from the writings of the "founding fathers" of this country and it leaves no doubt of their intent in including this right which is not granted by the Constitution but affirmed by it. That right existed prior to the founding of the USA. "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

Snowed in, Papa Smurf? "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

Howard, Can you explain a little more about what you mean by "sanction" AFF instruction. It may have been in early 1980 when a waiver was issued for Ken Coleman to develop/test AFF and report back to USPA but the program wasn't purchased from Ken's estate and integrated into USPA's instructional program until a year or two later. I was on the board and the Safety and Training Committe when that occurred. That was also an "interesting" process. I remember attending a course conducted by Ken Coleman shortly before his death in the ballooning accident. It was held in Deland and some of the others attending as I recall (tough after all this time) were Al King, Mike Johnston, and Jerry Bird. Linda Forney and a couple of others had a special AFF training course from Ken in Deland about the same time and were also "grandfathered" in when AFF Instructor ratings were issued. "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

The following is from a letter I fired off to the Washington Post. Since this idiot repeated his comments on NBC, I sent a similar letter to the president of General Electric, the corporation that owns NBC. . Let me cite a few examples of his offensive comments:  “I'm all for everyone expressing their opinion, even those who wear the uniform of the United States Army. But I also hope that military commanders took the soldiers aside after the story and explained to them why it wasn't for them to disapprove of the American people.”  Perhaps Bill needs to understand that US military personnel are US citizens (mostly) and have a constitutional right to express their opinion...just as Bill does, however distastful his may be.  “These soldiers should be grateful that the American public, which by all polls overwhelmingly disapproves of the Iraq war and the President's handling of it, do still offer their support to them, and their respect.”  It is Bill who should be grateful that these military people are out in the field fighting for his freedom and, yes, his life.  “Through every Abu Ghraib and Haditha, through every rape and murder, the American public has indulged those in uniform, accepting that the incidents were the product of bad apples or even of some administration or command order.”  "Every" Abu Ghraib and Haditha??? There has been one of each and some bad apple soldiers, all the way up to the rank of Brigadier General, have paid a price for that behavior. Haditha? There hasn't even been a court martial of the Marines (not soldiers - there is a difference, though Bill is probably ignorant of that fact) so what ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty". Bill is trying these Marines in the press. I find that offensive.  “Sure it is the junior enlisted men who go to jail, but even at anti-war protests, the focus is firmly on the White House and the policy. We just don't see very man "baby killer" epithets being thrown around these days, no one in uniform is being spit upon.”  Evidently, poor Bill doesn’t read the “mainstream media” either and missed the coverage of the moonbats in Washington, DC who spat at the soldier back from Iraq who is still recovering at Walter Reed after losing both his legs to an IED. His ignorance may be bliss to him, but offensive to me.  “So, we pay the soldiers a decent wage, take care of their families, provide them with housing and medical care and vast social support systems and ship obscene amenities into the war zone for them, we support them in every possible way, and their attitude is that we should in addition roll over and play dead, defer to the military and the generals and let them fight their war, and give up our rights and responsibilities to speak up because they are above society? “  "because they are above society?" No, Bill, they are not above society; rather, they are members of society and entitled to express their opinions which are undoubtedly founded on first-hand knowledge of what is really happening in Iraq. Their opinion is based on their personal experiences in Iraq. Bill, upon what do you base your opinions. The drivel that is reported in the so-called mainstream media that fewer and fewer people are reading or watching any more (NY Times is losing millions these days. I wonder why). By the way, to what "obscene amenities" are you referring? MREs? Body armor? Bottled water? Ammunition? Access to the internet? What they may be receiving from the taxpayers in this country is nothing greater than what most of us in this country take for granted.  “But it is the United States and instead this NBC report is just an ugly reminder of the price we pay for a mercenary - oops sorry, volunteer - force that thinks it is doing the dirty work.”  Mercenary? Our soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen? No, Bill. They are not mercenaries. There goes your ignorance and arrogance again. A mercenary is defined as someone "motivated only by a desire for money or material gain" You know, ...someone like you. If you bothered to ever meet and speak with some of our military personnel, you would find their motivation to be something much greater than the love of money and power.  “America needs to ponder what it is we really owe those in uniform. I don't believe America needs a draft though I imagine we'd be having a different discussion if we had one.”  Bill, you owe those US miliary personnel in uniform - whether serving today, yesterday, or last century (like I did), or back in 1776 - your very existence. Literally, millions of citizens of this country have put on the uniform of our armed forces, gone in harm's way, and a great number paid for it with their lives. They spent their lives buying your freedom with their blood. Don't forget it and don't belittle it. Your drivel offends me and would offend hundreds of thousands of others in this country...if they bothered to read this trash. "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

There are bad people in the UK and in the USA (the entire world, for that matter) who will get guns one way or the other and commit violent crimes with them. Criminals, by definition, break laws. At least here, we can shoot back. Another problem we have here (and in the UK) is the number of illegal aliens (lawbreakers by definition) committing violent crimes. Check out the stats in CA, especially the LA area regarding illegal aliens committing crimes. "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

Stefan, You're right on this one. I didn't care HOW Saddam died...only that he did die. It was way overdue. If I had my way, he would have been shot during his capture and avoided a lot of crap that's taken place since. Secondly, is German your first language? If it's not, YOU ARE WELCOME! "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

There is always a war going on somewhere in the world. There always will be; it's the nature of the beast. As for the Bush girls...let's re-introduce the draft and let every swinging richard serve a couple of years. Good training! Personally, been there, done that! You? "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

Actually, US military deaths in Iraq were down slightly in 2006 versus 2005. Unfortunately, the death toll of American service personnel will continue for the foreseeable future - the GWOT is not short-term. It will continue for decades. You can also expect to see more acts of terrorism and civilian deaths in the coming years. The islamofascists aren't going away any time soon and they are not interested in making nice with the Western world. Spain, the UK, France, Bali, the USA (both on our own territory as well as overseas embassies, military facilities, etc) have all been hit to date. "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling