rigging65

I've been beating up this first spectra loop I made yesterday all day long. Just kind of walking around tugging and releasing it, squishing and rolling the knot around in my fingers, trying to loosen it up, then tugging on it and loading it up again...seems to be hanging in there so far. Of course these aren't accurate field condition tests, but doing the same to non-sewn finger trap knots gets them to release right away. At first glance, I'm pretty confident with this knot, although surely some real "field testing" is needed to be sure...even beyond what Jump Shack has done. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Yeah, they don't care about us because the USPA is doing the "caring" for them. But, they could be regulating canopy size, canopy flight, gear sizing, AAD use, etc....and they would be if the USPA wasn't there as a buffer. I don't want to get into a USPA debate, but if you've ever gone through a TSO certification process, you'll get the idea that you don't want the FAA any more involved than they absolutely need to be. If we apply the ideas of GA to skydiving, you'd have to get a check dive and sign off for each different canopy you wanted to fly...which would, of course, cost money. Let's see, then there's flight plans, minimum instrumentation, the list goes on... USPA certainly has their own issues, but I stand by my claim that having the FAA in charge, without USPA as a buffer, would truly suck. Skydiving is out of their realm, so the FAA just does their best to cover their asses in the event of a law suit and leaves us alone...because USPA is supposed to be giving us some safety regulations so they don't have to! USPA is the lesser of two evils, if you want to look at it that way. I tend not to agree, but that doesn't matter. The FAA is NOT who we want imposing rules on us... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

For those interested: I've tested all the different line types we've got in the loft. Spectra and HMA worked the easiest. Then Vectran, very closely behind. Dacron didn't want to cooperate...which didn't really surprise me. It's just too bulky to make work well. I screwed around with it for a few minutes and gave up on trying to get it to "roll" properly once it was through itself. I don't have the correct test equipment to pull the loops to failure, but I did load them up to a few hundred pounds on our ripcord tester, and they all (Spectra, Vectran and HMA) all came through with flying colors. Interestingly enough, I tied a doubled overhand knot on the other side of the piece of cord I was working with and that knot blew up quite quickly. I was able to get somewhere around 500-600 lbs. on the lines and not have the finger traps fail...just shows you that the finger trap knot, in itself, is definitely superior for strength. I like this "trap-through" design. I think you're going to see it more and more in the industry. Hats off the Jump Shack! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Beats having the FAA regulate the sport.... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I did just that...a few times...it seems to work just as well. It's just a bit bulkier to pull through, but not that big of a deal. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Any rigger should be able to inspect it for wear-and-tear, but that doesn't mean they'll be able to tell you if it's in good shape (as that's a subjective term to each specific sport) or even if it's necessarily hooked up properly. We've done material inspections for paragliders in the past, it's not that big of a deal. A rip is a rip. I'm not sure how helpful it is to the owner, but at least we can tell them what's structurally wrong with the materials! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Usually a pocket slider refers to a slider with a two (or more) cell "pocket" attached to the leading edge of it. It's a totally separate piece to the original slider and is aftermarket. A dome-type slider just has extra material added to the design so that when it's inflated, the middle creates a "bubble" or "dome" allowing it to catch more air. It's not something that can be "added" or "removed" to a slider, it's just the way it's built. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Most any canopy can be landed gracefully...it just takes a lot more experience, skill and luck to land some as opposed to others. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I've been jumping a similar bag design with a Xaos for quite a while...no problems at all. I figure-8 the lines, fold the flap over them and away you go. Works great! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Very cool...and you really can't tell it's even been done... It'll be a neat "field fix" for replacing lines without a machine too... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

IMO you're not really getting your money's worth out of a Cross-braced canopy if you don't load it up. Wait till you're ready to go over 2.0, then spend the $$$ and live large. Until then, keep honing your skills. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Here's a rough sketch. The 60.0K limit makes it tough to give more info. Basically, the "A" and "A1" measurements should be about the same length, with half an inch or so hanging out below the "A" measurement. The "B" measurement is about 3/4 of the long length of the slider. The "C" measurement is about the same as the short width of the slider. Sew a piece of 3/8 (or so) tape down the middle with a double-needle (for reinforcement). Pre-bind the longest edge of the pocket...top end in the pic. Then fold the pocket in half, pre-sew the sides, then bind them closed along with the last unbound edge (bottom in the pick). Invert. Sew down the centerline to create two "cells", bartack all joints, then install on the down wind side of the slider, letting it hang off the front (leading edge). Hope this helps! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

If you read the PD info carefully, you'll find that no where does it directly mention that line dump itself will harm you. It's bag dump that causes problems. There were several threads here that discussed this...at length...as well as several jumpers that post here (myself included) that have been jumping without line stows for quite a while. As long as the bag stays shut and keeps the canopy in place until you want it to come out (ie - line stretch) you'll have a normal deployment. All rubberbands do is keep the lines in order, they do nothing for openings. I've been jumping a completely stowless D-bag since November and it's been great. It's my own design, but is very similar to the bag SunPath is putting out...this makes sense though, as it's a pretty simple, obvious design. I was a bit surprised how similar it was when I saw it at PIA last Feb, but like I said, it's simple...and that's why it works. My comments (as I've posted before) are that the bag only really fits one canopy size well. Since you're using tuck tabs to keep the bag closed, I'd be afraid to under or over stuff it for fear of bag dump or tab failure. I really don't think the bag is all that useful for a majority of jumpers...especially anyone who isn't very set in their canopy size. As I've mentioned, it limits the range of canopies you can put in your container (in that bag anyway). Perhaps SunPath has worked this out...I couldn't find a good way to do it, but then I'm not as smart as they are. If you're only going to jump one size canopy and not change (or are willing to spend an extra $120 or so on a new bag when you do change), then you might not run into this problem as much. I guess it would be nice not to have to change out rubberbands, but before changing to the stowless bag I was using the black SkyBandz and they rarely needed to be changed out anyway. If you're not careful when tucking in your stowless bag tuck tabs (or if you use a packer who is basically working as fast as s/he can, so may not take the time to smooth everything out), they can get bent or distorted and then they need to be replaced or rebuilt...certainly more work then changing a rubber band. It's the same thing as a riser cover getting warped...but instead of just a riser cover flapping around, you get bag dump. Baaaaaad juju. I haven't found a reduction in line twists, but then I rarely have line twists on my canopy, so I can't truly comment on that. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't, but my opinion is that line stows have only a very small input in causing line twists. There are many other reasons why we get line twists, most are easily gotten rid of without changing bags. At the end of the day, the stowless bag, IMO, is a nice gimic that is cool because it turns heads. Again, IMO, it doesn't change much from a deployment perspective, although you can probably stow your lines a bit faster. It does limit your ability to try a buddy's canopy or demo another size wing in your rig using your bag and pc set up though. I like mine. I'll keep jumping it. Some people will get them because they're a gimic. Some people will get them to save changing rubberbands. Some people will get them because SunPath has it's name on it. Whatever...do what you like...just be informed before you do it! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I've jumped a -M reserve (181) loaded at about 1.6. It flew just fine, I took some time to get to know it, and it actually landed quite nice....but...I could feel it was close to a stall on landing. I asked Precision about this and they told me (as I already knew) that when the -M reserves are overloaded their stall point comes way down. This makes sense to me and I'm informed about it, so I know how to handle it...hopefully if you're jumping a reserve loaded more heavily you know the same thing! Your reserve is not "just another" canopy. It's probably a different animal than what you're used to, so make damn sure you take some time to practice with it up high before you get too low! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Someone call AirWic and get them to start production. Could yo imagine how many they'd sell??? Ok, not that many, but most skydivers I know smell, so I bet they'd buy them! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

If it's the extra stowed line that's the problem, it really isn't that big of a deal if it slips out while you're pulling the slider down. There are also other ways to stow your excess line to help reduce this. With that said, you're slider shouldn't really just slip down on your risers, it should take just a bit of work...that's normal. You should be able to get a set of silicon bumpers from your local shop, or call your canopy mfg., I'm sure they'd be happy to sell/send you a set. You can put them on yourself (as it's a main canopy) as long as you feel ok with taking your links off your risers and then putting them back on...be sure to check line continuity afterwards! If you dont' feel like you can do it, get help with it...then watch and learn how it's done so you'll have that much more knowledge about your gear! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Just my opinion, but if you choose to pull your slider down (after collapsing it) I would leave your breaks stowed until you get everything else sorted out (contrary to student training). As soon as you unstow your breaks, your rate of descent and forward airspeed increases, so you're loosing time and altitude, as well as flying off into the wild blue (or another canopy) at a much faster rate. Also, IMO, it's much cleaner and easier to get the slider over your breaks when they're still stowed and under their hoods. You don't have to pull the slider down, of course. You can leave it in place and be just fine. You're not getting the full spread of the lines, but that really doesn't matter for most people, and it's certainly easier and faster to leave it up there. If you're going to leave your slider above the links, I would suggest you get slider bumpers to protect the line where they meet the links, as well as the slider grommets from damage. Regardless of what you choose to do, your first responsibility is to make sure you have a good canopy over your head and are clear of traffic in front and all around you...be safe or be dead, your choice. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Pretty much anything you're getting for $6 is junk...probably plastic, which will rot over time and break when you try and use it. A friend of mine (also used to work here with us) had a reserve primi at 9K after his buddy's camera lens snagged his D-handle. The reserve was overloaded and overspeed (not to mention he was at 9,000 ft., head down) and he blew two lines and ripped a cell or two. He decided (after he woke up at about 7K under an uncontrollable, collapsing canopy) to cut away his reserve and open his main. In the middle of hooking the lines, the knife broke and left him holding a shard of razor blade to try and finish the job. He didn't get the job finished and landed under about 1/2 a reserve. He was lucky and only broke his pelvis (he was a ex-paratrooper, so the PLF probably saved his life). The point here isn't what he should or shouldn't have done, it's that the tool he had to complete his action failed in use...it was a plastic hook knife. If you're going to carry one, get a metal one, and while you're at it, get two. My experience from CReW is that you need a back-up of anything you really need, because when you need it, you might not be able to find/reach/get to the first one. One under the mud flap and one on the leg strap isn't a bad way to go. Just my 2 cents.... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

You don't even know what it is yet, how could you really want to try it??!!?? Jeez, PD could put out a new line of air fresheners and people would sell their first born to be first to touch them...Now that's good advertising for you!! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I have no idea, but there are some screwy laws out there so who knows? I'm not sure why you would be forced to let others use your ideas if you didn't want to...especially if you're offering a replacement product (ie - another certified rig) to take the place of what someone else has currently. That is, if no one was making a skydiving rig with the Skyhook, but the device was being used on some other product in the world, and the Mfg. didn't want to built skydiving rigs, then I could see a reason for licensing to be an issue. But this isn't the case. Good on Bill and RWS for making the sport safer. If you want that option, for now, buy a Vector...until someone comes out with another way to do it, or the Skyhook is licensed. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Let's see, a few bucks per Skyhook sold through other Mfgs., or several complete rigs that they wouldn't have sold otherwise...hmmm, that's a tough one...Especially when they'll get those other $$ after they release it to other companies. I'm sure RWS will be more than happy to market the Skyhook out, once they've sold a bunch of their rigs with it as a "standard" option. Why on earth would they let other rig Mfgs. use it to sell rigs until they've gotten their chunk out the market? Come on guys, this is business! We may like to think that everyone is friends out there and we're all looking out for each other, but manufacturers are in this game to make a living, not to be your friend. DO NOT confuse friendly with friendship. RWS is marketing the Skyhook to sell their product, not someone elses. Once that market's slowed down, you might see it sold to other Mfgs. There's nothing wrong with it, it's good business! If you don't like it, design a better mousetrap and "market" it to the other Mfgs. I'm not trying to grind on anyone here, but I'm sick of people thinking that manufacturers owe them something. Sorry if I vented a bit there, but it's the truth...it's business. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Ahhhh....Xaos...fruit of the God's.... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I'd be interested to see the data to support this claim. I've seen an awful lot of spinning mals come out very clean after an RSL fire...I've even been involved in a few . The RSL has been through years of tests and, to my knowledge, no one has ever been able to show that there is a negative component to using an RSL...besides opinion, there just isn't data. If anyone has data to prove otherwise, please share it! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Different canopies open at different rates. F111 vs ZP might have something to do with it, but more likely is has to do with the differences in slider size, line trim and planform. All canopies are different, just like all cars are different. Obviously a Chevy 2500 and a BMW 325i are different, so you would expect them to have different attributes. Some similar, some very different. The same is true with canopies! Back to your question about pricing: Given that the canopy has about 200 or so jumps left on this lineset, I'd say you're looking at about $800 or so, maybe a bit more. That's what we'd sell it for anyway. Like I said before, the $1000 price was based of the canopy without concession for the lines, if you were to sell it and it were in desperate need of a new lineset, you'd probably not get but $650-$700 for it. Since the lines still have some life left in them, you're looking at a bit more worth. With brand new lines, $1000. Anyway, that's the way we'd price it out in our market. Hope that helps! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

That's without markup. The canopy costs $1995 new. Less 25% (which is pretty much the standard reduction upon receipt), less $1 per jump ($500), brings it in at $996.25. We don't mark up used items when we sell them. We do take a consignment fee on them, but we don't mark them up. Market value is market value...and about $1000 is market value for your canopy, at least in our area (not taking the lines into account). Vectran lines certainly do need to be changed out. 400-500 jumps is about the limit. The thing about Vectran, is that it doesn't go out of trim like Spectra does. This means you're not going to get the funky openings that tell most people "Hey! You need new lines!!". Vectran just starts breaking...bad juju. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."