rigging65

I do hate it when people take things so literally... I think the defining difference is that you mean, intentionally, to add dye (or Scotch Guard) to the fabric of your system for the express purpose of changing that fabric (ie - it's now more stain resistant, a different color, whatever). "Grass/dirt/sand" isn't something that you intentionally add (ok, most of you wouldn't) and it didn't get added to it with the intention of changing the characteristics of the fabric. Better...? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

You should remove all the canopies from the system, then follow the instructions on the can of Scotch Guard for best results. Let it dry (I'd double the recommended drying time, just to be sure) then put it back together and pack it! Like I said before, it's my opinion that, very technically, there is really no difference between dying and Scotch Guarding. But there are certainly different perceptions in which one you can do and which one you can't do...at least in this industry. I'm not saying shops don't Scotch Guard rigs all the time, but riggers should be aware that adding anything to a rig (chemicals included) technically constitutes an alteration, end of story. In the real world, you make your own decisions and you take your own chances ...Scotch Guarding is something that most riggers are willing to risk. Is it going to effect your rig, most probably not...at least not that anyone has noticed in the last many years!!

Absolutely. Scotch Guard does wonders to help keep stuff clean. But I'll bet you someone out there is going to comment about how putting Scotch Guard on the webbing violates the TSO the same as dye would. In the FAA-law world, pretty much anything that you do to a certified material has to be re-tested and certified or you've altered the material, thus voiding the TSO. With that said, I've never heard anyone say anything negative about Scotch Guarding webbing, legally or structurally. All the law stuff aside, you're going to be much happier with the outcome of Scotch Guard than you are the dye route....or, if you really want to be happy, save your pennies and get the harness replaced in the color you want! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Generally speaking, it's a bad idea to try and dye webbing on a rig. First off, you don't know for sure that the dye isn't going to compromise the strength. Although it probably won't. Also, by dying them, you've altered the materials (which are certified) that make up your rig...which, technically, voids the TSO...unless you apply for and receive permission to perform the alteration from the Administrator (that's the FAA peoples). Lastly, many dyes won't stay color-fast on the items you dye unless they are washed in or have another chemical "lock" put on them...so the dye may end up all over you and your jump suit. With all this stuff in mind, I'd say, no, don't try and dye your webbing. If it's really that big an eye sore, you can get the harness replaced. We charge about $300 or so to do that sort of work with certified goods. Most mfgs. or large lofts will charge something similar. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Building one isn't the problem, packing one isn't the problem, it's getting someone who is actually certified to sign off the damn paperwork so you can turn it in!... The FAA doesn't know a Lap rig from a Back rig from an Avocado. All they want are the signatures to keep their asses out of court if you screw up...but where to get that signature from... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Funny...I heard the same campfire story about a guy here in California. We were all lined up to add the rating, but it never materialized...maybe the guy moved to Michigan "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

We've had several of them come through our shop, and people have been very happy with them. It's a great canopy in the Stiletto class, but without the classic opening problems. It's not quite a twitchy as the Stiletto is, has great opening characteristics and really great flare power with a nice long stroke length. If you're interested, I suggest you contact Precision and ask for a Demo...it's worth trying! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I have a stowless D-bag (not a BergerBag, but similar) and have jumped it as an AFF/I, RW jumper and with a wingsuit. I haven't noticed anything different when jumping it. My canopy still opens great, still opens soft, and still packs just the same (minus the rubber-bands, of course). I can't change canopies around as easy anymore, as the bag limits how much (or little) you can get it the bag, but I don't do that too much anymore now anyway. There are a couple good threads on stow-less D-bags on this site. If you do a search, I'm sure you'll find them! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I had an early one, and I really wasn't happy with it. RI was very nice and tried to work on it three times, but it just wasn't coming out right. Maybe the newer ones are better! IMO, the smaller sizes are acceptable, the larger ones (over 120's) are not. They just look like junk. The Talon II was a kick-ass rig. I had three of them and they were all great. Super geometry (you could over-stuff or under-stuff it, and it looked great), great fit and great function. I think RI made a mistake when they "upgraded" to the Voodoo. The rig, IMO, has poor geometry and the mfg. simply tried to replace good designing with stiffening the rig to force a shape. Bad idea, and it shows. I'm not sure why they got rid of the Talon II either. They changed it to the newer Talon version, which keeps only some of the Talon II's great characteristics, and incorporates far too many of the less-than-desirable Voodoo characteristics. I will give them this, the leg strap configuration on the Voodoo is top notch, very comfortable...the rest of it should go away. ...just my $.02, nothing more... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I would agree with this if a skydiving rig was a complicated as a car is, technically. Rigs just aren't that complicated. There aren't that many parts and not really that much to learn... ...you do make a good point though. Especially in today's high tech world, we don't, generally speaking, know much about what surrounds us. Maybe this just leads us in the natural direction of "ignorance is bliss"... scary... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Me too, me too! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

The only real problem I have with them is that they limit how much (or how little) canopy you can put in the bag. Since the tabs have to fit into their slots at a given location (ie- there is no stretch, like you would find with rubber bands), you're limited a bit in changing canopy sizes. If you're pretty much set in your canopy size, this is no big deal. Of course, since they are still new, you might have issues with packers. I don't use packers, so I can't really comment on that. As for the deployments, I haven't noticed any change with how my Xaos opens. Still sweet, beautiful and on heading. Packing is a bit faster, once you get the hang of it, but not by all that much. I've said this before, but I really think the stowless D-bag is pretty much a gimic that doesn't have a real place in main-stream skydiving. Fun, but nothing revolutionary. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

It's never really been an issue of how much, rather it's the simple fact that people need to realize that the choice they are making (stainless, mini rings) is a less efficient and therefore by definition a less safe system. Pretty much every skydiving system out there today, including most every sub-system or accessory, are overbuilt to a level where, if they are just a bit efficient, it's really no big deal...but it's been a long time since the days where everyone had at least a basic understanding of all their systems, what makes them work, what makes them fail...and why...and people just don't know about their own equipment anymore. That's the scary part. The excuse I hear time after time in dealing with students and customers is "No ones ever explained that to me before...I just though that's the way it was...!" It doesn't matter if you're talking about emergency procedures, exit orders, jumpsuit purchases or technical gear issues...you owe it to yourself to be educated on the decisions you're making. After all, you're the one getting out of the plane, 2 miles up, with those decisions riding on your back. That, is the reason why I am continuing to put information out in this post. I won't speak for Derek, but I assume he feels the same way. At least some people are showing some interest in this topic so, by God, let's get some info out before they lose interest!!! I'm not saying there is anything wrong with getting out there and jumping your ass off instead of sitting inside with your rigger learning technical data, but when you've got people with 2000 jumps who can hardly pack their main, don't udnerstand how to do a stall check and can't assemble a three ring assembly because they haven't done them or even thought about doing them since they got off student status, IMO, you've got to worry about the direct the sport is taking. Faster isn't always better. Sometimes you have to lurk to get on a load just so you have the time to see how it all works. Take your time, enjoy the sport, and learn all you can! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Ok, granted, but aside from that slim-to-none chance (for most jumpers).... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

But, it should be noted, if you follow water-landing procedures correctly, there shouldn't be a reason to cut the main away. Of course, since emergency water landings are the exception and not the norm, there is no way to tell what might happen during one. Keep your head, land the canopy first then get out of and away from your gear. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I didn't say it was "unreliable"...and the reason that mfgs. use it is because the general population is convinced that if someone builds it, it must be safe. Safe yes, safest, no. As long as there are consumers who think the world revolves around shiny things, mfgs. will find a way to give that to you. Again, it's safe enough to use stainless or nickle...but for a group of people who commonly looks for the safest or best pieces of gear, slick rings are neither the safest nor the best. That's all! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Why on earth would you want to polish and smooth and make slick part of a system that needs friction to work properly?? Everyone here realizes that the load placed on that little white loop and cable is all determined by how much friction there is in the system (and that it's properly aligned), right? Before someone comes flaming back with the fact that "the system is so overbuilt that it doesn't matter...", I realize that. I also realize, as Relative Workshop tried to explain to the world years ago, that larger rings create longer lever arms and therefore reduce the force on that little white loop and cable even more. As a note, I jump mini-rings...expressly because the systems are so overbuilt...I just wanted to throw out there that slick rings take you one step further down the road of decreasing the efficiency of your canopy release system...I know I'm being a hypocrite, but I wanted to make sure everyone has all the facts! And you just thought it was a matter of looking cool, didn't you?... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Personally, I use a stowless D-bag, but before that I was really impressed with SkyBandz (the black rubber-band-like stow bands). They seem to last a long time, have the advantages of flat stow-bands and really aren't very expensive. The advantages of flat-stows, as has been mentioned, is that they are flat...so they stay in place better than round-style stow-bands do. Not trying to hijack the thread here, but it should be noted that stows are banded in place for two simple reasons. First - to keep lines in order. Second - to keep the D-bag closed until you want it opened. The rate at which your lines clear their bands has NOTHING to do with slowing down your openings...short of keeping your D-bag from coming open prematurely. This has been in several threads before but for the un-initiated, you have line-stows (which keep the lines in order) and locking-stows (which, most importantly, keeps the D-bag closed, but also keeps the last of your lines in order). You're just fine (usually) with or without line-stows...locking-stows are another matter all together. The locking-stows are where the rubber meets the road. They are the difference between a proper, sequential opening and getting your world rocked to the point of structure failure and/or bodily injury. There are old wives-tales that tell you that double-wrapping your line-stows will slow your openings...wrong...but double wrapping your locking-stows can cause bag lock...once in a while. Again, not trying to hijack the thread here, but keep in mind that stow-bands should be nice and tight and flat. Keeping your locking-stows down to one wrap is never a bad idea. If you need to double wrap, it's a better idea to move to a smaller diameter stow band. If anyone out there has more questions in regards to how a premature D-bag opening can cause hard openings, do a search, start another thread or PM me and I'll fill you in! Sorry! I'll let you have your thread back now!.... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Bomber Manufacturing was name changed to Trident Harness & Container, Inc. when it was incorporated as a business, that's all. Same company, just a different name. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Like Tim said, we're still in sizing right now. You wouldn't want us to let the cat(s) out of the bag before they're ready, would you? Good things take time...but it will be worth it, I promise! You can get more info off the website at www.tridenthc.com. That's where all updates will also be posted! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Ah, yes, but if you've joined to 21st century and are jumping Sigmas, there is no drogue riser to clip into. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

We use Murphy's Oil Soap...have done so for many years...it works great, and I've never seen any fading or discoloration from it. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I'm not sure I follow your line of thought here. There is no safety reason why you should disconnect your RSL in the event of heavy winds. If you're getting drug and cutaway, you'll have to get your reserve reclosed/repacked, but that's not a safety concern. Why would you need to disconnect in a water landing? You shouldn't be cutting away, you should be flaring into the water, just like a normal landing, then swimming out of your harness. People have been killed from cutting away over water...you have no idea how deep it is, and you begin to accelerate as soon as you cutaway...why do this?? Landing on a building falls under the same category as heavy winds...it's not a safety issue to have your reserve p/c pop out, just an inconvenience. I've seen a bunch of 2-out scenes with cutaways and have NEVER seen an RSL complicate the procedure. Not saying it couldn't, but it hasn't....I have, on the other hand, heard of (and, unfortunately, seen) several instances of someone disconnecting their RSL, then needing it...and not always living to tell about it. I agree there are a couple of disciplines where the RSL does not help you get the desired effect when cutting away. Namely, Camera flying and CRW. Other than that, I can't think of an instance where you would have to disconnect your RSL to be safe...convenient, yes, safe, no. My $.02... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

To deal with the weight issue, we installed hooks hanging off the ceiling to act as another hand (or shoulder) to support the weight while the packers pack. You need to put a good packing weight in the main tray to keep the rig from sliding forward. They used the hooks for a while, then pretty much ended up going back to just hanging them over their shoulders. It was just smoother for them this way, I think. One good trick out guys use is once you get the canopy on the ground, place a big square of carpet (say, 6 foot by 8 foot - soft side down) on top of the bundle to help bleed the air out. Our packers would pack two rigs at a time this way. Flake one out, get it on the ground, cover it with the carpet. Flake the other out while the first is "draining". Go back and finish the first, then finish the second after it's been "drained". Seems to work well! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

"Rolling" the rings can actually cause more wear than it prevents. By rolling the rings you're getting the oil from your fingers on the rings...which attracts dirt and grime...which leads to abrasion at the base of the riser. Flexing the risers (making sure that they haven't taken a "set" in any position) is always a good idea and should be done monthly...along with cleaning your cables. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."