rigging65

I've been jumping a Xaos (HMA lines) in a rubberbandless D-bag since about the first of the year. There are no problems with this setup. As for HMA being more prone to line dump: This is a silly statement. First off, line dump doesn't do crap to make openings harder, bag dump does. And there is no reason why you should have bag dump any more often with HMA than without. I've jumped my Xaos with rubberbands and without, and never had a problem either way. HMA: It's all good "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Actually, I was unaware that the Reflex used that as a sales point. Of course, to be honest, it's not like anyone out there is making anything totally new. It's revisions and additions and refinements...some more than others. I think you'll find that the Viper embodies the best of what's available (plus some of it's own technology) in a way that really hasn't been done before. Alot of Mfgs. try to tweek their original design to make it more like other rigs. We opted to start fresh and use some design features almost in their native forms to make the Viper. The result is smooth lines and well fit options...as opposed to a bunch of options that don't fit well with each other (as you might find with a rig that was once original but has been "tweeked" with options). Of course, it's all just rhetoric until you can put your hands on it. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Keep in mind, when it comes to service, you get what you pay for. Saving a few bucks on the initial purchase only to get hosed when you're trying to get something fixed or help with a problem is a tough way to buy gear. Buy from a shop. Support your local gear store and you, your friends, your DZ and your local area all win! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

It's been a known fact (although obviously not that known) that the higher you load up Ravens, the more abrupt the stall is. If you keep within proper, recommended loadings (this doesn't mean simply "just a few pounds under max") they fly just fine. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Kelly's pretty good about getting back to people on email...unless they're running short in the shop, then he's under a machine and not on the computer. I would suggest you give them a call if you have something to ask and can't wait to get an email back...anyone at VSE will be more than happy to help you with questions. (360) 893.6111 "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Since Kelly has decided to be modest and not reply here (although I know he's watching the thread), I will put in the $.02 that I imagine he would add if he were to reply. (He's a buddy of mine, so I'm sure he won't mind me putting words in his mouth ) The Infinity has the best riser coverage system on any rig currently available, period...and it looks good too. You basically have two complete layers holding the risers in place, but they're designed such that they don't lock against each other. I've never had a riser cover failure on either on my Infinities. The Harness is designed with an intentionally low hip junction...something that a few riggers in Southern California just couldn't get their heads around. Based on how your body moves and the angles that your "traditional" harness takes when you wear it, you basically end up being "hung" by the harness. By moving the junction down a few inches you are "sitting" in the harness...more like sitting in a saddle than hanging. Add the nice, wide leg pads to the equation and you're in for a comfy ride. For some reason, this being different from what others were doing freaked out some people and a few riggers complained that the harness must simply be built wrong. I don't know what these guys had against comfort, but Kelly's Harness is about as comfortable as they come. VSE is a small company that is playing with the big boys. They don't spend a ton of money on their advertising because their rig is so good they don't need to. Infinity owners sell the rig, not flash graphics. Ask yourself this: Who pays for advertising? Answer: You do. By keeping their costs down, they are able to keep their prices down. Do you want to pay more to allow your favorite mfg. to run bigger ads to make more money for them, or would you rather spend less money for a really great rig and spend the extra money on jump tickets? It's your choice. The Infinity has killer pin protection, a good, solid wrap-around main container, is easy to pack and easy for your rigger to pack (and make look good!). The rig is just solid, and you won't find any better customer service out there. Like I said, VSE is a small company, and they value their client base. They will go out of their way to make your experience with them something to make you smile....can you tell I like VSE and their product? Buy one, you'll never regret it. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

We do a courtesy inspection on any main that comes in with a rig to have an I&R done, included. Basically, we hook it back up, check continuity (at the same time looking over the condition of the lines), then check the top skin for rips as we lay it out to rigger roll it and put it back in the bin. This is as opposed to a complete MAIN INSPECTION which would include a fan inspection of each cell, line attachment point inspection, line inspection, etc... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Generally speaking, using a pullout doesn't really make the deployment any faster. There isn't the delay that you feel as the bridle goes to stretch and pulls the pin then lifts the bag out like on a throw out, but the deployment isn't any faster. It just feels that way because you feel things happening sooner on a pullout...not much sooner, but enough to notice. Every so often I jump a throwout and I hate that pause before stuff starts happening. I know it's nothing to worry about, and I know it's going to happen every time, but it still makes my heart skip a beat when it does. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

2 jumps just proves that all the seams are sewn shut and the lines are attached. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Well, first off, it's important to understand what on a rig is actually "TSO'd" (for simplicity, we'll leave alone the fact that TSO is about process, not product). The Harness and Reserve deployment systems are the only parts that the FAA really cares about. As the Containers go, they could care less (assuming any changes don't effect the Harness or Reserve Deployment systems). Now, if you change the Containers, you're basically making aesthetic changes to the rig (with some exceptions). Functionally, everything stays the same, and the FAA is happy. Additionally, if you change certified sections of the rig (Harness and Reserve Deployment Systems) but you change them in such a way that they are the same as some other system that holds a current TSO, you can request that the changes be made to your TSO based on "current, certified, industry accepted technology/design". The FAA then looks at it and decides if you need to do all your test over again, or if what you're doing is essentially the same as what someone else has already done and tested. There are a bunch of hoops to jump through, but those are the basics. If you're not changing the Harness or Reserve Deployment System, you're generally cool. If you're changing either of those systems, but you're using a previously tested and accepted design, you're also probably cool....of course it all depends on who you're working with at the FAA and if they've had their coffee yet that day. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Racers tend to have a negative stigma on the left coast. Hard to pack, hard to make look good, don't use a safety stow anymore, too much velcro (on some), and other things... Lots of rigs are regionally liked or disliked, so you probably want to make sure that, wherever you are, your rigger doesn't hate working on the particular model you're interested in. If they do, and you really want one, find another rigger...or figure out why s/he doesn't like that model, it might bring things into a new light for you. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Kelly and I are good friends, he called me and we laughed about.... ...I'm sure he'll find the roadkill surprise I'm sending him just as funny.... ...and then again, maybe he won't... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

You're not helping here.... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Not to get too picky here, but the Viper is most definitely not a Reflex clone. It's based on the same TSO, but is totally redesigned and tested. In fact, the only thing aesthetically that is the same about the rigs is the shape of the pindoor on the XP model and the wrap-around lower corners on the main tray. We've taken all the best options we've found on rigs worldwide and incorporated them into this series of rigs...so you'll definitely recognize features from other rigs on the Viper! The Viper series of rigs is still in sizing, and will be available when we're finished sizing. You wouldn't want us to put out something we're not perfectly happy with, now would you? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

It's called a safety stow. It holds your freebag closed, just like your locking stow rubber bands do on your main D-bag. The difference is, it's one loop that slides through a sleeve such that one end makes the left stow and the other makes the right stow. The idea is that if one of the two stows releases, the other one basically has to as well (as the safety stow will just slide through the channel and allow the other stow to release). It's designed to to help eliminate bag lock on a freebag. Pretty much every manufacturer uses one, with the exception of Jump Shack (builds the Racer). "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Remember that being elliptical or square really has more to do with rate of turn, or what we commonly think of as the basic level of performance for a canopy. That isn't to say that rate of turn is the only factor is defining performance, but it's a major one...especially for younger folks in the sport. With that said, most canopies will perform well within a very large range of wingloadings. The optimum wingloading (where you can expect to get the best characteristics out of the canopy) is most often higher for ellipticals than for squares, but that doesn't mean you can't fly squares loaded heavy...or fly ellipticals at light loadings. You run into problems at the very heavy and very light ends of wingloading, regardless of canopy type, but in the middle is generally fine. You might not get everything out of the canopy that it has to offer, but it'll fly and fly safe (usually)... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Last time I checked, most patterns that are taught to jumpers start at 1000 ft. Many patterns for HP canopies start higher than that. And since we're on the issue of HP canopies, the issue of pattern is often boundless. If you fly a carving 360 degree approach on a highly loaded X-braced canopy, you may be starting much higher than 1000 ft. Given the times/distances that reserves are required to open in, "in the pattern" doesn't mean much to me. Again, I agree that there is a time and a place for just chucking the reserve out there...but where that time and place is is a bit more complicated than just "when you're low". As for a one sided release. If your cables are trimmed "properly" this should basically be impossible. The RSL-side cable should be longer than the non-RSL-side. Thus if the non-RSL-side cable hangs up, you can't get the RSL side to release by just tugging on the pillow and you keep both risers intact. At least then you get the choice of what happens next. In regards to riser breakage, with the advent of super-mini risers there are almost no failures anymore. And certainly, if there are any failures out there, there are only a very few. Can anyone confirm properly serviced super-mini risers that have failed in the field? What all this means is that if you're gear is set up right and maintained at all, you shouldn't ever run into a situation where the RSL misfires. It's just stacking the deck in your favor. Odds show that RSLs save, if you don't want to use one, that's fine. But stand up and say that you're basing your choice off emotions and feelings, not facts, because the numbers support the RSL as a life saver. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

SkyDance SkyDiving does 18,000 ft. tandems as well, so it would appear that in Northern Cali, it's not all that uncommon! With proper safety precautions, there is nothing wrong with that altitude. And SkyDance has pretty much got it down too, as they do 30,000 ft. HALO jumps twice a year and have been doing so for several years. Some yahoos from the UK even did static-line roundy jumps here from 30K a while back! Not my idea of fun, but they came all the way across the Pond for it...and went away with nothing but smiles and a promise to return for their third time next year! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

See, my problem with this statement is that if you don't know who Clem is, it might give you the impression that just anyone could get away with this. First off, Clem was lucky this worked. Secondly, he's a very fine canopy pilot and skydiver with a lot of years of "non-normal" skydiving. He's done a lot of things and seen a lot of things in his work that most people have never even thought of. This means he is more apt to be prepared for odd situations...someone with less experience might not be. Also, the blanket statement that "if you are that low" begs the question, what is low? Certainly there is a limit where simply getting more material over your head is the best you can hope for, but often cutting away and getting your reserve out is safer. One is for "low" the other is not...but there isn't a hard deck that I think you could assign to this choice. Especially given the different rate of response that each person is going to have. Saying "if you are that low, you should pull your reserve without cutting away" is, IMO, a very dangerous statement that could easily be taken the wrong way. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Besides, if you were gonna modify the TSO you'd think they'd want to increase their max load limits placard...which would mean heavy drops... Now where would someone get get something like that done? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

It's also worth noting that there are different handle designs out there that help reduce the chances of your pillow rolling under the MLW. I'd also ask this question of those who don't agree with soft pillows: Why is it acceptable to have a soft cutaway pillow but not a soft reserve handle? And don't use the "hand grip" argument, unless you've got more data than Bill Booth does...because all the testing he did shows hand strength isn't a factor. As for the RSL debate (which will rage on for years, no doubt)...skydiving is about playing the odds. Look back at the fatality reports for the last 10 years and see how many of our friends are gone due to cutaway/low pull or cutaway/no pull. Compare that number to the total number of RSL related fatalities (I'll let you use ANY and ALL incidents that even mention the RSL as a possible factor). What you'll find is that even if RSLs killed all those people, which I'm sure we can agree can't be the truth for ALL the incidents, those who could have been saved by the RSL is a far greater number. Jump what you want, but at least don't be ignorant of the numbers. We all weigh the options when we jump, but one would hope we're using facts, not emotions, to make our choices. The ground doesn't suffer emotional fools... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

The whole thing is done before attaching the toggle. It seems to work pretty well and it doesn't want to back itself out. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Yeah, but the point is, some people would...and you don't have the right to tell them they must jump with one. As for my examples, they were all, of course, hypothetical, and they were worst case. But they illustrate the point that it is very possible to get caught in a cycle of having to buy more and more gear just to stay legal. That's not positive for the sport. As for the FAA doing research before they commit to something, when we went through our TSO cert, we had to send a complete drawing package and documentation package in to the MIDO before they would even consider doing an inspection for certification. Keep in mind that TSO is the second highest rating the FAA issues, so you think they'd pay attention to it, right? When the inspectors showed up (from one of the largest MIDO offices in the country), we had to explain every facet of the operation to them...not because they wanted us to prove anything to them, but because they didn't have a clue what was going on. Not only that, but about 2 hours into the inspection, they asked "and so where do you build the parachutes at?" Well, we're building containers here, which was obvious if they had even read the title of the 200 page documents package we sent them. When we commented that we were only building Harness & Container systems, they looked at us confused and said that they were under the impression that they were here TO INSPECT A PARACHUTE PRODUCTION FACILITY! Did they do their research? Obviously not. Did they even open the documents package to skim it before coming to do a Federally Mandated inspection? Obviously not. And these inspections are something that they do on a regular basis! The FAA is, by their own admission at our inspection, only worried about covering their ass in the event something goes to court. They could care less about what we're doing, as long as they have a loophole to get out of. They could care less about parachuting in general, again, by their own admission at our inspection. They "deal with Airplanes, not folks that fall out of them"...their words, not mine. So, for anyone who is under the misguided impression that the FAA would "do their homework" before stepping into skydiving...perhaps you should do some research before you make your posts. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

You can legally do anything you want to your main canopy system, as long as you're the one planning on jumping it. But, if you screw with it bad enough so that you plan on cutting it away, you have to have another back-up canopy on you. You are required, by law, to have a canopy on you (your "reserve") that you don't plan on using --except in an emergency-- on every skydive. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

And how many jumpers might you lose to the costs associated here? Skydiving is already expensive...adding costs aren't going to help that. I'm all in favor of seeing some sort of controls put into effect to prevent canopy fatalities, but they need to be put in place by skydivers who understand canopy flight and wing loading, not airplane people who understand wings but still think of parachutes as round things made of silk. No, I meant like opening and closing a flight plan via phone for each jump so that the FAA can track where you're at...just like pilots do. Having students work out flight plans as a learning exercise is fine. But forcing your casual jumper (or hard core weekender) to do it would be prohibitive...and a waste of time, IMO. Ok, so how about when the FAA insists you wear two visual altimeters plus two audible altimeters, plus an ELT? You know how the FAA likes redundancy...which really does make sense. But soon you'll have to be making over $150,000 a year to skydive! Again, the sport won't absorb these costs. It'll just get too expensive to skydive. Skydiving is still about choice, I don't want someone who has no idea about what skydivers actually need telling me how many Alti's I need to wear to be safe. And like you said, the FAA is short staffed, so I don't think they're going to commit to training their people about skydiving when they already have a simple model (General Aviation) there to take their sets of rules from...even if the sets don't fit our sport well. Again, I don't know that the USPA is always the best,..but, IMO, it beats the FAA. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."