dmcoco84

A constitution of government once changed from freedom, can never be restored, liberty, once lost, is lost forever. John Adams to Abigail Adams... July 7th, 1775 Well... I’m not bored. I’m actually really busy, and wish I had more time to read, and educate myself in history. Many books sit unread in my room. Wish I had more time to post too... Anyone see John Adams... on HBO? He was in France, trying to muster support for the Revolution. He was asked if he had been to the Opera... replied that he didn’t have time, that his profession gave him little free time for the finer arts. He was laughed at... he then replied: “I must study politics and war, that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy, natural history and naval architecture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, tapestry, and porcelain.” Freedom can be lost... nations like America do not survive when the people forget their history... because there are those, that wish to destroy our constitution, brick by brick. And it started long before Bush and Obama... I don’t want children... but I would like my sister’s children to be free. This topic matters... and everyone always comes back to the same thing... religion. Its not about religion... its about God. Natural law... Without God… your rights come from Men… and when your rights come from Men, you have tyranny… you will always have oppression. Power Corrupts... Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong. And I see you like to take afternoon naps... are you five?

Not really... maybe it will make more sense with, the “religion of America.” I pretty much believe what the Founders believed. I might be able to get to it tonight... I’ll try.

Yes I did... "The human mind is finite... we cannot understand the infinite." "Personally... I do believe in a Creator of Divine intervention, and in my life, have questioned my faith many times." I do not know for sure... and if Einstein couldn’t figure it out, I sure won’t be able to. I’m a smart guy, but not Einstein smart. Though I do share Tesla’s issues... All men are created equal... and all men have one thing in common, Common Sense. I live the best life I can... and don't worry about the specifics of the deity, until death. However... Natural Law, the DOI, the Constitution, and the Republic. These things must be clearly understood by the People... or freedom will be lost. Just a few years ago, I knew nothing of the things I am speaking about here... an American Idiot... by design. Ask anyone who came from a nation ruled by tyranny... who lived under that tyranny... America is headed down the very same path. There are two choices gang... Madison or Marx... it’s one radical or the other. I’ll stick with Madison... I think we are about as far as we can go... without, “the religion of America.” Hmmm...

Igualmente... igualmente. So... am I wrong, that you are not free in the UK? Cause I love hearing all the things they are doing to ya over there from Daniel Hannan. I hope to visit eventually for BASE, but I definitely don’t want to live there.

And while I Googled that... did you Google Cicero?

Did you even read my posts? If there is a God... where did God come from? What created God? You can’t have nothingness, and then have a Creator. If we started from a singularity, well, where did it come from? You can’t have nothingness, and then have, something... despite its size. How do you have something... from nothing? D

Ah yes... and it was Cicero who cut sharply through the political astigmatism and philosophical errors of both Plato and Aristotle to discover the touchstone for good laws, sound government, and the long-range formula for happy human relations. Marcus Tullius Cicero - the Founders’ favorite expositor of Natural Law. Care to elaborate on Cicero, and the Founders? And don't forget the Anglo-Saxons. D

Well... you’re kinda right... but you’re kinda wrong too. Nature’s God... predates the constitution by over a decade you say... so you would be referring to Deism then? During the Age of Enlightenment... a reason-based faith that holds a belief in God through a foundation of Reason. And yes, the word God doesn’t appear in either of those places... because it doesn’t need to. Not only are you missing something vital... you are also not recognizing their order. The Founders didn’t refer to a specific deity... not because of the Laws of Nature and Nature’s God... Deism. They referred to a Creator... because it IS... law. Natural Law... God’s Law First they spoke of Nature’s God... then of Natural Law... and as I said above, “What was, “Factually Incorrect”? It wasn’t the Founders who came up with that setup, they adopted it... from those whose language is spoken of above.” In the Anglo-Saxon language, the word for supreme or ultimate good is “God.” And it was the Anglo-Saxon ideas about Natural Law that the Founders used as the framework for everything they came to understand. Truths that are self-evident... being endowed by the Creator with unalienable rights. That... is Natural Law. Does that say a lot to you as well? Or do you have no idea what Natural law is? A lawyer... D

Oh God... please give me strength... I hate to have to say this bro... but, people like you, are the reason many people call themselves atheist. You make me want to go bang my head against the wall... just like so many others in my past, including close friends. I mean that with the utmost respect... but its true. You remind me of the counselors at Triple R Ranch, a Christian camp that I loved to attend as a child... archery, 22 rifles, fishing, river canoeing, western style horses, and one even shared my name, Coco... loved that horse! Went both for overnight camp and with the YMCA day camp. In overnight camp, I loved debating them at bible study. I used to piss them off, and priests/reverends, because they never had complete answers and I often showed them the contradictions within their words. It was great... TLDR... yeah, tell me about it. I tried to read your dissertation, tried to read the post you were replying to also, and couldn’t even get through that. I skimmed some of yours... but honestly; I didn't see anything relevant to this thread... or at least to what I just posted... but if you think so, please, repost, just shorter and more concise... But ask yourself this... someone who is turned off by the Bible and Christianity... do you really think that spitting out a bunch of bible verse and talking about Jesus will make any difference? I’ve never seen it too... As for your reply to me... Yes, eternal life can only deal with the afterlife... that is unless you found Duncan MacLeod, the Highlander. I’m pretty sure we are mortal... and each of us will die. I didn’t say that Jesus was “giving us how to live in a better afterlife...” where did you get that? And every prophet talks about how to live life to the fullest, and about morality. So... he is God, the Son of God, and “He is Life” too? “Banging head against the wall!” See... here is one area of Christianity that always bothered me... so, let’s say Mother Teresa was Buddhist. She never accepted Jesus into her heart, didn’t believe in Jesus. So she goes to Hell? Joe Shmo blows up a building killing people... hey, like the IRS plane guy, but accepts/accepted Jesus into his heart, so he is saved and will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven because man is evil, flawed and Jesus died for us... for our sins, so all loving Jesus will forgive him. Yeah, sorry, don’t agree. If there is a heaven/hell... I don’t believe in Hell as explained in the bible BTW... I don’t think you go to heaven. You don’t get to share “the bliss of Gods love” in the afterlife... you get darkness, or you get darkness for a time period, or you get some form of Karma, or something else... Shrug, IDK... I don’t really care. I try to live the best life I can... give my time to Charity... really looking forward to starting Habitat for Humanity again... been way too long! And when I die, we’ll see. But with the way I have lived my life, and what I have experienced in my life... I think I’ll be fine. Okie Dokie! I spent years debating about Christianity with a wide variety of people... friends and others... I don’t wish to go through it all again. Christianity is one way to interpret God... it’s your way, a way that I have not found understanding through. It does teach people good morals... so either way, I’m glad we both believe in God. And if there is a Creator... I’m sure he would be on the side of Freedom... not Tyranny. So that also gives me some hope... And let me throw this in the mix for you... Are you familiar with the Gnostic gospels, and Gnosticism... it is viewed as heresy by the Catholic Church. Whether it is or not... whether it is truth or not, I find it interesting how it throws Christianity into a loop. “Many religions advocate that humans are to be blamed for the imperfections of the world. Supporting this view, they interpret the Genesis myth as declaring that transgressions committed by the first human pair brought about a “fall” of creation resulting in the present corrupt state of the world. Gnostics respond that this interpretation of the myth is false. The blame for the world’s failings lies not with humans, but with the creator. Since -- especially in the monotheistic religions -- the creator is God, this Gnostic position appears blasphemous, and is often viewed with dismay even by non-believers.” Hmm... that’s interesting. Or what about that movie, Stigmata. “Frankie: Jesus said... the Kingdom of God is inside you, and all around you, not in mansions of wood and stone. Split a piece of wood... and I am there, lift a stone... and you will find me.” That comes from the Gospel of Thomas. What are churches made out of... you don’t need a building to find God... I don’t need church to connect with my Creator. In a novel I own, Change of Heart, the Gnostic gospels are discussed... a woman is trying to make a decision and her faith is challenged, this is one thing that comes up. At one point it was said, that these gospels speak of, Judas, and how he didn’t betray Jesus... Hmmm... Interesting. Religion is not the most important thing... God is. We need to understand God as a nation, as the Founders did... and through our own self-study we can pursue religion... or with other if we so chose. But either way... if we let God and the Consititution be destroyed, freedom will be lost... maybe forever.

No... no they can’t... “We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are...” Without those words... without the Declaration of Independence, everything else is just a hearing of grievances to the King. Lol... billvon, you’re great. The majority of slave owners prevented their slaves from learning how to read and write, and as stated previously it was also illegal, and in some states a capital offense. Had slaves been able to read and write... had they been able to learn, they could then learn they did have the right of freedom, and then could begin to learn how to set themselves free. Dred Scott is a great example, even though he lost... but something of that magnitude doesn’t come easily. It took a civil war... See, in England... it went. God -> King -> The People. The King gave The People their rights... so he could also take them away, or change them. The Founders changed that... God -> The People -> Government There is only one sole purpose for government... to protect the rights of The People. To protect those self evident, and unalienable rights... Nothing Else. You’re Funny! That is possible, because of the US Constitution... Religion is a way to interpret God... you don’t need to have religion to have faith in God. You have the freedom to worship what you perceive as the Creator in anyway you please... as long as you are not infringing on the rights of others... or you have the freedom to worship no God. But as John Locke felt... atheism, is irrational. “Locke felt that a person who calls himself an “atheist” is merely confessing that he has never dealt with the issue of the Creator’s existence. Therefore, to Locke an atheist would be to that extent “irrational,” and out of touch with reality; in fact, out of touch with the most important and fundamental reality." If your rights do not come from God... who do they come from? They come from who ever has power, rulers, and those rights can be taken or changed at any moment. Mao Tse-Tung believed that “Power grows out of the barrel of a gun...” He killed 40 million people! Most were drowned in rice patties... or shot in the head. Pssst... guess what. I’m not a Christian. Not a big fan of Organized Religion either... I believe in God though, a higher power of some kind... a Creator. Belief in God is not based on Christianity... Christianity is based on the belief in God. The problem is, the majority of Americans are unable to separate God and Religion as the Founders did... because they have not truly studied the Founders. What I learned in public school... angers me now. If Americans were able to do so... God on money... God in the Pledge... God anywhere, would not be a problem. Now... if we Pledged allegiance under Jesus... I’d have a big problem with that! Or what if we Pledged to Bush... or to Obama... think that’s funny? Chinese children were taught that Mao was like God... and when they wanted to say; that what they were saying was absolutely true... they would say, “I swear to Chairman Mao.” In his power he crushed the Chinese people... and through famine, he killed 20 million more. However, the Founders did feel that religion was essential for all people to have. For several reasons... and within that, was, the “Religion of America.” Side note: In about a month, once the semester is over, so I have adequate time, I will be contacting my 12th grade Government teacher. A very nice man, hilarious... and quite intelligent. I remember he was working on his dissertation while I was in his class, finishing up his doctorate. He wrote in my yearbook, by a picture of him in the activity pages on page 161. “DAVID - Thanx for sleeping 90 consecutive classes in 1A US Govt. Perhaps when you wake up you will realize my liberalism is Correct. Good luck, stay straight, Don’t Be A HOT Dog and Don’t perpetuate the world which is sick w/lust.” That first part was funny, because I only slept once... for he said in the beginning of the year, you get one warning and then he will kick you out of his class for good... he does not accept sleeping. Of course, it was wonderful having issues with insomnia throughout high school... and having him for 1A! He loved to call everyone hot dogs and say the world was sick with lust... and in many other ways, made it fun! That is what a good teacher does... make learning enjoyable. However, I do not remember what his, “liberalism” exactly was... I will soon find out. I hope to debate him... GRIN. Though I do remember thinking, he was an honorable man. I think we’ll learn a lot from each other... though he might learn more. GRIN. Everyone’s proof is different... some it’s a book... life experience... a perceived miracle. I have my proof. Not sure if I’ll share that... we’ll see. Though I’m sure it would be found interesting... since it is rooted in science. I’ve explained it to my family... and some close BASE friends. It gets pretty complicated too... because along with that science... my life experiences. And I have questioned my faith many times... But I’m not sure if I want to go there... I’ll stick with the Founders for now, and soon... the “Religion of America.” Oh, and M-Theory is very interesting. String Theory... I love physics and studying quantum mechanics. Science blows me away... and I think that God has every bit to do with it. Just think... if the temperature was off by the slightest degree in any part of process... we wouldn’t be here. Things are too incredible... just too magnificent... There is most definitely a Creator.

Believing in God... having faith, having religious beliefs, doesn’t prevent sickness. Nor does it prevent bad things from happenings. Nor are those things, “God’s will being imposed.” Praying... divine intervention... depends on your beliefs... that’s apart of faith. Eternal life... deals entirely with the afterlife. The afterlife in Christianity is determined by how you live your life here on Earth. That has nothing to do with modern medicine, or “human inventions” that extend and better the quality of that life... Ron, those things aren’t supposed to “lead you to the path of Christ” or deter you ...both comments make absolutely no sense. And believing in God doesn’t mean that you can’t believe in science. Personally... I don’t see how you can have one, without the other. Agreed... written by man, inspired by God... and changed repeatedly with changes in rulers... especially in England, the very place our founders fled from. America is growing weaker not because of a wearing away of Christianity... we are not a Christian nation... however, it is because of a wearing away from, God... and because of a lack of knowledge about our nations history, and our Constitution. You are correct... government should not be involved with religion. But without God... the Constitution, the Bill of Rights… they cannot exist. There is a big difference between Religion... and God. You can have God, without religion. But you can’t have freedom, without God.

I would have to disagree. Yes, you can make arguments predating Christianity... but come on. Just listen to Christmas Music... decorating and lighting the Christmas tree, and what always goes on top...? An Angel or a Star. Angels... secular... no. The Star of Bethlehem? Other faiths don’t look at a decorated tree in the month of December as anything other than a Christmas symbol... referring to and celebrating the birth of their savior. Of your non-Christian friends who get trees... what are they? What do they believe? Do they have kids? Are they only doing Christmas as a “holiday thing” and not a “religion thing”, everything but the Jesus part... so the children don’t feel left out? If no kids... do they decorate it too? Why bother? Kinda weird... Plus... Festivus is so much better... ya get a pole! You are going to like what the founders said about the, “Religion of America.” Equally with your moral code... “I try to treat others as they want to be treated.” You are referring to the Golden Rule, or similar, right? Yeaaaa, cause they were teaching you that those religions were BS... they were teaching you Jesus was the truth, teaching the bible, so then those other religions would have to be... Wrong. Well... besides Judaism, for obvious reasons. No... I never said, the religions OF the founders. I spoke of what the founder’s referred to as the, “Religion of America.” Ugh... the wall... yeah... we’ll get to that. Does it matter? Not when I have followed in the steps of Abraham Lincoln... diligence in self-study. Lincoln had very little formal education, but he knew how to read and write... it was all he needed. He taught himself, and became a lawyer. Taught himself law as well... Washington... Franklin... even Einstein... all self-study. And today, we have very extensive public libraries... a wonderful use of the public money. I’m a big believer in the public library system... my whole family is! Shame our youth isn’t... and they aren't learning true history is public school... I sure didn't.

DREAMDANCER! Grow a pair and answer my question! Yes or No? Do you agree with Amazon? Were the Founding Fathers just "evil rich white slave owners?" Or have you not answered my question because "I got under your skin?" Were mommy and daddy's ancestor’s sissy Loyalists who ran back home because they lost the war? Hmmm... Coco

It makes a huge difference... Freedom comes from Knowledge... Why do you think it was illegal to teach a slave how to read? Because once they knew how to learn... they would learn how to set themselves free.

You are ok with a, Christmas, tree... but you are not ok with a Menorah? That’s pretty discriminatory, or would you rather see the Star of David? A tree has nothing to do with Islam, nor Judaism... or any other religion, only Christianity. Also, I would think Christians would more so relate to the cross a stronger symbol, than that of a tree… is a tree a less offensive symbol to that of a cross? Could you elaborate on your status as agnostic? Dictionary.com says - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. Do you simply feel that, if there is a God... a Creator. The human mind is finite, and cannot understand the infinite... that of a supreme being. You don’t deny that there is one, you just simply don’t feel we can know the truth until death, and until then, you don’t want to hear about a specific one, when it comes to the things you posted about. Would that be correct? For, if so... given that you are a Lawyer, I am surprised that you are not familiar with what the Founders felt was, the “Religion of America.” What turns you off about the Ten Commandments? Hypothetically, if you were to take out 1-4, maybe 5 too... do you agree with the last 5? Without Religion, where does your Moral Code come from? What is your Moral Code? God off the money, that’s important for later... maybe a different thread even. Out of the pledge... same as with the money. Lastly... How do you teach about religion in schools, without teaching religion? How do you teach about Christianity, Judaism, Islam... Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism... there is Taoism and Confucianism... not to forget Gnosticism, which throws Christianity into a loop. Learned some interesting things about the Gnostic Gospels in a wonderful book called, Change of Heart, which is not a book about religion, but about a decision. What about the religions of the Native Americans, we couldn’t possibly discriminate against them... with how much they have been screwed over in the past. How do you differentiate all of these religions... and there are more... and not, “teach religion”? I don’t see how that works... But see... all of that is solved with the words of our Founders. Coco

A Loyalist - (American Revolution)

Since you are so adamant about proclaiming that those who attend Tea Party rallies are racist… A question for you… Do you also think the Founding Fathers of these United States were racists?

Things I don’t miss about George W. Bush http://michellemalkin.com/2010/02/09/things-i-dont-miss-about-george-w-bush/ “I’ve abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system.” – George W. Bush What a quote!

Well stated... Yes, and some years ago, I would have agreed. But according to the words of our Founders... that explanation would also be, Incorrect. Is that it... no one else? Not even a questioning into the last three words of my post? Billvon, no comments? Quade? Considering you have the Don’t Tread On Me rattlesnake as your profile picture, I had hoped you would jump right on that. Though, you decided not to answer any of my additional PMs after confirming that, so, I’m not sure why you have used it for the past 5 years, in various places, as you stated. Is it along the lines of what Benjamin Franklin spoke about... or maybe the Sons of Liberty? Neither? There have been several uses and means for those words and that symbol... Shrug... What about in schools? Does the majority agree with Nightingale? Even though, some of the things she stated are, kinda contradictive... that isn’t how our Founders felt. They actually believed, that along with knowledge and morality, religion should be taught in public schools... the, “Religion of America.”

It’s funny how things happen, at particular times… I’m glad you started this thread. OK! Now that the bickering is mostly done… Let's go back to the Founders. Shall We? That statement is 100%… Incorrect. Actually, the Founders felt the role of religion would be as important in our own day as it was in theirs. You are correct though, we are not a Christian nation, nor did the Founders ever intend us to be. However, they did speak of, the “Religion of America." Spelling

Yea, Glenn says that, in the video... and those people still have very little say, at the moment. Oh, there are plenty of reasons. I'll add that one to my list. Didn't post to debate that... just offering up the rest of what was said in the clip.

Quade... Buddy... I'm going to have so much fun debating you and a few others in the coming months... we are going to have so much to talk about! Until then... "I don't know..." Here is the rest of that segment... See, he said that in a sarcastic manner, because he does know. He's just going to let Joel explain... Remember... ya gotta watch the whole thing! See, they are going to explain why we will NEVER be able to negotiate with Iran. THEY WANT TO KILL US! We are the Great Satan, Israel is Little Satan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMs39W2slkA Oh Allah, Give Me The Strength to Hasten the Return of the Promised One. Enjoy...

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson It's funny how things happen, at particular times... And the connections have continued... I began working on two things this morning... important things. Reevaluating... Didn’t sleep well last night; fell asleep on the couch all afternoon. Saw this post when I awoke... 8 days since I returned home. Worked 6 nights straight, now my 2nd off... “Rather than love, than money, than fame... give me truth.” 2 years, 2 months, and 2 days... spent at that pond. As I said before, its not numerology. I had researched it... long before I showed you the first ones... so I could disprove it... Reason. He left the pond Sept 6th, 1847... what a day that was, in Arco 2009. The good, and the bad... The things that happened in Italy, my second visit... it’s not coincidence. Nor with the first trip... The other will be resolved soon... one of two ways. Hopefully I won’t have to take that path again... inevitably, it will lead to a different number... and a list. Question with Boldness...