NoShitThereIWas

Thanks to everyone for the replies ... Where you been LoudTom?? Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

N/A

I responded to another similar thread. But looking back on some of the jucier skydive videos of 2004 and 2005 (one's that I had almost forgotten about), I would say my job is to save people from killing themselves while they experience the adrenaline rush of falling out of an airplane. I go up, I come down. My intent is to do it again and again and my job is to do the best that I can to see to it that my student feels the same way and acts accordingly. I am not trying to say that if something really bad happened which was out of my control that I would be responsible or guilty of being a bad instructor. Shit happens and that is why I try and stick with a plan where prevention is the key. Much of the time I feel like a carnival ride for students. The difference between skydiving and a carnival ride is that you have a limited amount of time to accomplish something very important on every skydive. And time nor gravity wait for anyone. When students go awray (sp.?) what can you do? You do the best you can to insure everyone's safety. There is no blanket answer as far as levels of responsibility on every jump in that every skydive is unique. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Hey All, I am creating a 4 Way Scrambles draw and was wondering if anyone had a favorite 4 way which was relatively simple and seemed to flow real well. I have some good ideas but could use a couple more. The dives can be Random or Block. I am on my way to do some research. Also, does anyone know a decent site to create dive pools/ flows to be printed? Any help would be appreciated. Blue skies. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Hey All, I am creating a 4 Way Scrambles draw and was wondering if anyone had a favorite 4 way which was relatively simple and seemed to flow real well. I have some good ideas but could use a couple more. The dives can be Random or Block. I am on my way to do some research. Also, does anyone know a decent site to create dive pools/ flows to be printed? Any help would be appreciated. Blue skies. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

I'm not talking about going below your hard deck, I'm talking about responsibility. By saying most AFFI's "feel a sense of responsibility to make sure their students deploy on time", implies, that 1) it isn't a requirement, and 2) some AFFI's do not feel that way. Quote Here I think you are reading way too much into my words. I would hope that all AFF Instructors feel a sense of responsibility. However, no one should just assume ALL AFF Instructors do anything. Is it a requirement? Well, yeah, I would think if you wanted to keep your job at the very least it would be a good thing if you haven't had student's with Cypres' firing or going in. I would also think it would be bad for one's reputation, feelings of self worth, ego, guilt complex, self esteem etc. in the sport. No one wants to have that on their conscience. There is always a big HOWEVER though whenever we deal with a sport like skydiving. It is not your average, typical sport. It is considered extreme and you can die doing it. Therefore, people need to have personal limitations and a plan ahead of time for what they will do in an emergency. I student still in freefall below 2,000 feet is an emergency and something apparently went very wrong on the skydive. I consider it my responsibility to do what I can to make sure my students are open at the correct altitude and land safely. At 2,000 feet they are taught if they see their instructors open, open themselves. My personal limitations in this sport are that by 2,500 feet I am under a good flying canopy. That limit may stretch to a minimum opening altitude of 2K to chase a student in need. I feel that is my responsibility to myself, my student and my family. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Then why have an AFFICC (or whatever they are calling the current cracker-jack box ratings). Why not just have all coaches jumping with students? What is the difference between a Coach and an AFFI? Derek Derek Derek, Although I think I see the point you are trying to make, I do not agree with it if I am interpreting it correctly. First off, I don't consider my rating a "cracker-jack box rating". Those of us who have our AFF Instructor ratings had to demonstrate some pretty difficult tasks and go through what I consider a rigorous certification course. I feel a sense of honor and pride in having that rating. In my opinion, those who have been lucky enough to achieve it, had to do some pretty wild, daring and scary things to get it. Second, yes there is a considerable difference between a coach and an AFF-I. One difference would most definitely and hopefully be experience, another would be training, performance and level of difficulty to attain the AFF-I, and third would be responsibility which is the one I think you are honing in on. As far as responsibility goes, it is not the job of a coach to make sure a student pulls. The student should already have demonstrated the ability to do that several times before being cleared to jump solo. If a student cannot deploy, they have no business graduating or being signed off to jump with a coach. The coach is there to teach and evaluate some basic skills which are helpful to beginner skydivers who are hoping to eventually jump with other jumpers. You only need 200 (which used to be 100) jumps to be a coach and train others to do those skills. An AFF-I must have a D License and show the ability to "rescue" a student whether it be by deploying for them, flipping them over off their backs, controlling their exits to make them stable, stopping them from a spin, etc. This is a whole different ball game altogether. And although most AFF-Is feel a sense of responsibility to make sure their students deploy on time and land safely, you will never convince me that it is our responsibility to break our own safety codes, i.e. going below our hard deck which is recommended for D license holders to be no lower than 2,000 feet. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Yes it would. http://www.cypres.cc/Sites/englisch/Download_Users_Guides.htm Please read Section 12 : Technical Data Specifically regarding activation heights of Expert and Student models. Koppel You are correct, sorry for the misinformation. I am not sure why or what gave me the idea that a Student Cypres fired a bit higher than the Expert Cypres, but you are right, they are both designed to fire at 750 feet according to the Cypres website. I guess the tandem Cypres is the only Cypres that has a higher firing range than the Expert AAD. Vigil does however, seem to have a higher sensitivity than Cypres for it's firing ranges and their firing ranges do differ between the Expert and Student settings by 200 feet which was more along the lines of where I was going as far as my train of thought in reference to my earlier post on the subject. Regardless, there is a potential for danger when two or more people are in close firing range and I was in no way shape or form advocating being in that situation but, if I ever was, I was merely noting that a difference in an AAD's firing altitudes based on their settings could make the difference in avoiding a canopy collision. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Again Mark: Everything depends on the situation. We train our students that if you see your instructor deploy or you are alone in freefall (1st few jumps) you must deploy. I would train my daughter no differently. However, if I saw my daughter under my hard deck trying or waiting too long to "do the right thing" like pull the reserve ripcord after wasting too much time on a hard pull, I would stay with her until I got her to pull A handle or pulled it myself. All of you Non-Parents can judge but after you have a kid, you too would do WHATEVER it took to save your child's life. That is just human nature. I am glad someone on this post did mention the whole if you were to chase someone to Cypres firing altitude, it would be a bad situation when both Cypreses fired at the same time. In that situation you would be in danger of a low wrap. That is a good point. I don't think it would stop me though from chasing MY daughter below the hard deck. Technically, though, if I was doing AFF with my daughter (which I hope to someday do, she is only 5) and both of our Cypreses are working properly, her student Cypres should fire approx. 300 feet higher than my expert Cypres and hopefully that vertical separation would be enough to avoid a canopy collision. Who knows, one can only speculate and hopefully we can all deal with the things that need to be dealt with up high. Altitude is a GOOD thing Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

I understand where you are coming from in feeling that way. That is because you are a parent. If it were my daughter and she was below 2,000 feet, I would chase her down until my Cypres fired or want another person to save her life too. But that is because she is my child. I think most parents would risk their life to save their child. But beyond that, if it was not your child, or say your mother, father, very close significant other ... There comes a point when it is time to save your own life. That is called self preservation. Depending on what the problem is, you may not be able to fix it and in most emergencies that I have seen or been in, when others try and get involved, the situation gets more complex and confusing. I feel I already put myself under enough risk every time I am involved in skydiving activities because shit can happen. I think Instructors take on a certain amount of risk so that they may teach others what they know. There are stories out there where students have killed or nearly killed their instructors. We teach our students to open by a specific altitude. We reiterate altitude awareness on every jump and it's importance. We do what we can to make sure we are well trained, the gear is equipped with back up safety devices and that students receive proper training in the event of an emergency. Even with all of that things can go wrong. In the end, it stil boils down to the simple fact that you need to save your own life on every skydive. At our DZ, students are required to wear Cypres or Vigil. If something went terribly wrong on my skydive, that is why I spent $1200 on a Cypres. It is no different for students. There may be a few people out there who I would chase to 1,000 feet, but they'd have to be pretty damn special; I still wouldn't be happy about having to do it and I don't think I would ever skydive with them again. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

I make it very clear to my students that I will do everything in my power to be there for them on the skydive but I also make it clear to them that shit can happen. It is important for them to know that although they are under our supervision and it is our job to help them make a safe skydive, their life is their responsibility and I also make it clear that when push comes to shove, my life is mine. I have a daughter to come home to at night after work and I let them know that my plan is to go home. I spend the time I feel is necessary to train them to do a good job on the ground and hope they will perform well in the air but if not, my biggest hope is that they walk away with their pull priorities. Since my decision altitude to cut away is still 2,500', I do not like opening below that under many circumstances (WFFC is one exception). I have not had a student get below 4,600 feet (was the lowest -- knock on wood) and I hope I never have to. However, my mind is made up that I will chase a student to 2,000 feet. When my dytter flatlines, at 2 grand, my parachute opens. Hopefully I will never be in a position like that, but it does no good to chase a student any lower than that and endanger your own life: case in point was the AFFI who went in trying to rescue his student after a skydive gone wrong. The instructor died and the student lived. I hate to say it but if they have not pulled for themselves by 2K that is what the Cypres/Vigil is for, not my life. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

RkyMtn: I haven't been on DZ.com much lately. You know ... life gets in the way but I was just reading some online news and watching some online videos of Hurricane Katrina. I went to do a search on Hurricane Katrina on DZ.com because I was wondering how those of us in this community, seriously affected by Katrina were doing. I clicked on this thread and read your post and eventhough I am probably way late responding to it, I wanted to write that I think that is the fricken coolest thing that you are doing and have the opportunity to do. I think you would be awesome at it and I think 3 weeks is just the right amount of time to be there. So I just wanted to give a hoot and hollar at ya for doing what you are doing. I think I would enjoy a life experience like that and to be a part of the relief efforts in a way other than just putting a check in the mail if you know what I mean; something more personable than that. So good luck, brace yourself and most of all be safe. I haven't read half this thread yet but I hope you are able to give us updates to let us know what your experience is/was like. Sometimes, we have to live vicariously through others. Good luck and Blue skies. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Thanks Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Here is something someone told me to do and I found it quite interesting. If you really like Bush you may not want to go to this sight or read and watch what it advocates, but... Go to Google and type in failure and do an "I Feel Lucky" search ... It is my understanding that an "I Feel Lucky" search goes to the first website/webpage that it thinks you would be looking to find. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

I did not know for sure that I was single, but it was relayed/verified to me through the grapevine (a friend). Imagine that: A 2 year relationship and I find out through the grapevine that I am now single . He didn't even have it in him to tell me in person or a call ... Oh well, I am actually happy that it is over. Now I can revel in enjoying myself and my friends and BEING SINGLE. Count me in! I think I will live it up!!! Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

What I meant to say was burning of fossil fuels, CFCs, etc. etc. (Oops typo). And, BTW, I do think there is a link between CFC emissions/ozone depletion and climate change. Considering O3 absorbs IR from Earth's atmosphere and UV from the stratosphere, how can you make the statement that there is no relationship between temperature and ozone when it has been depleted so significantly? Further, I do believe there is a direct link between the CO2 problem and greenhouse gases and flooding. There is no argument to deny that Earth's atmospheric temperature has risen in an upward trend and if it continues, flooding will increase as will storm activity and climate changes. The warmer the atmosphere, the more water is evaporated into the air and if you are one who supports the theory of the polar icecaps slowly melting away, well... I do understand that the tsunami was the effect of a shift in plate tectonics under the ocean, not storm activity and plate tectonics don't have much to do with temperature and greenhouse gases ... but my point is that Mother Nature is getting pissed off How you can't see that humans HAVE disrupted the balance, I don't know because CFC emissions, deforestation, burning oil, coal and other industrial activities have wreaked havoc on the environment and the politicians who are involved in the oil industry don't seem to care. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

"labanwd" & "the yo"????? Speak English Tom. And BTW, that is the thing, in 4 way you only need 4 . But I have to admit, I do miss 10 way. When R U going to Lake Whales??? Are you going to Nationals next year for 10 way??? Hmmmm Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

LeAnne! Hey Girl, I was wondering about you and Mike and how y'all are. Thank goodness you and the DZ are still okay. Wishing you guys the best down there and if there is anything I can do up here in Missouri just ask. Glad to hear you're okay, stay safe sista! Your friends Jen and Dakota from Hawaii Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

I wonder if there is a link between the burning of CFCs, Ozone Depletion, global warming and the vast amount of incredible mother nature that has been occuring to our planet. When I think about the 3 hurricanes endured by the Floridians last year, the huge tsunami endured by Bali, Indonesia and Thailand and now a class 5 hurricane off of the gulf coast. It seems like the flood activity has risen dramatically and with greater intensity over the past couple years. I myself know that the flood requirements have changed regarding my homeowner's insurance on a piece of property I currently own in Hawaii. I was never required in the past to have flood insurance however, this year I was REQUIRED to purchase flood insurance. This requirement was a recent change after the tsunami in Indonesia. My guess is that there is a link between humans and our impact on the environment. This may be Mother Nature's way of retaliating as we are disrupting nature's balance. How long will it take the politicians to figure it out and will it be too late by then to fix a bigger underlying problem? Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

I got my AFF rating with 400 jumps. Was I ready? Probably not for "anything" but geez, everyone has to start somewhere ... once you get your rating you have shown that you have the capacity to instruct and be safe. I have found that a lot of getting ready is learned through different experiences. I always said that being an instructor on a skydive is sort of like pulling the handle of a slot machine in Vegas, you never know what is going to come out of the door. As long as you have the basics that you need the rest comes with time. Time and experience help me with my confidence. The more experience I get, the more I am exposed to, the more I have had to deal with and the readier I feel to continue yet I never get complacent. You can never do that. I remember when I was pregnant, I asked my friend, how do you know when you are ready to become a Mom? She said no one is ever just ready, you get ready. I think AFF is similar in that you do what you can to become a good instructor after you achieve your rating and a lot of it is learn as you go. Your rating already says something about you: you can teach skydiving, you can gear a student up, you can control an unruly student, flip them over from their backs to their bellies, stop them from spining and that you have relatively good flying skills. But no one can really predict what is going to happen on every skydive. I try not to get in over my head while doing AFF, I try to be cautious with my abilities and limitations. But I also find that a lot of my doing AFF is to be on my toes and GET READY for anything. There is a lot of responsibility associated with being an instructor and you have to be pretty heads up about the sport. Whatever the situation, I have found that you can never get complacent, always save your own life no matter what, then adapt and overcome whatever is necessary to make sure your student is under an open parachute at the correct altitude and that they land safely and hopefully learn as much as they can from the experience of their skydive. Blue skies and Good luck! Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Hey LT! Whazzup? Glad to hear you are still doing things Tom's Way. And I agree with you. I decided last minute not go to WFFC this year, I honestly needed some real time off from work and skydiving. You sound good and you're jumping out of Casas? For free??? Lucky bastard Love and blues right back at ya. Hey where can I find 9 more people for a 10 way team next year? Screw AFF, next year I just want to do 10 way and 4 way. Take care Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Boobies: Juggs, Hooters, honkers, nenes, headlights Penis: Love handle, chicken, The Little General, Gargantuan, wank, wanker, balls Sex: making whoopie, the "wild" thang, doing laundry, baking muffins, moving the hot water heater, screwing, fornicating, pounding, making love, gettin it on Great thread! Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Look for something TALL to find your way out! Landing in corn sucks. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Hi Sketchy In my humble opinion, it depends on the individual Coach. I can tell you that I am much more comfortable with a minimum of 200 jumps for the C license to Coach as opposed to the old 100 jumps. I can still remember back when I had 100 jumps (and I was pretty good for 100 jumps anyway... ). Compared to now though, I was scary. I totally agree with the person who said the difference between the Coach with 100 and the Coach with 1000 jumps is the one with 100 is expending 99% of his energy trying to stay with the student whereas the one with 1000 jumps expends 99% of his energy focusing on the student. Anyway Sketchy, it is nice to see you on the Internet again. Blue skies Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

I was wondering if you have and if so what the reason was. Thanks for the replies. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."