NoShitThereIWas

I have not read the responses to this thread but my opinion is that I would love to have in air communication with my students. I saw the coolest sunglasses ever yesterday at the mall. They were Oakleys and they had headphones attached to them, very comfortable. Anyway, it is an MP3 player and holds anywhere from 60 to hundreds of songs depending on the model you buy. I was thinking how cool would that be for skydiving, except that the shades flipped up. If there was a way to have headphones connected to goggles and a mic hookup in a fullface, that would rock. Half of my students have difficulty hearing the radio and most instructors don't sound very clear when talking to students while flying their parachute. I would like to see something hit the market soon which is small, ergonomic, more technological and feasable for some of us to communicate with our students in the air and under canopy. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Right on, good comments AFF I. Yep, I had the same argument with another AFF I about the student holding the PC. After encountering this phenomenon of students not wanting to let go of their pilot chute, I was baffled. I remember the first time a student did that to me on main side. I was like why in the heck would they hold on to that thing? And after seeing another instructor on video turn and track after thinking the student let go ... looked back ... and the horror! I heard one of our AFF Is use the comparison of "Throw that thing like it is on fire." Those are the words use now to tell a student what I want them to do after they initiate their pull procedures. I think it generally gets the point across. A threat to punch them in the ribs? Hmmm. I like it, especially if it works. But ... we cannot actually physically strike our students. I've seen it done and heard it done but not good for video ... no no. I've seen AFF-Is smack students in the head, karate chop their legs to get them to straighten them, etc. Although I have learned to get a little more tough than I used to be, that is just not my style. I do agree that fear does work though as a motivator. My AFF I scared the shit out of me and it worked. Anyhow, going on a tangeant here ... my main point was that I had the same argument with an AFF I evaluator about a student not letting go of the PC. He said pull the pin out. I said what about a horseshoe if the bridle gets wrapped around their hand? I can see it happening. He said, if you pull the pin, they are going to let go of the pilot chute guaranteed and the parachute is going to open. I thought about it and it made sense. I have not had to use that technique yet, hopefully won't have to. Just a last ditch effort idea I guess. I like the threat thing. Maybe I will have to use that one sometime. Especially if it is a really big guy Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Female AFF Instructor here ... Been doing AFF since 2002. Best words of advice either learned from other very good instructors or my own experience: 1) DRESS FOR SUCCESS. Watch those really heavy people (and watch the really light ones too). 2) Know your limits and don't let others convince you of what they are. 3) Be prepared for the student to not let go of the PC handle. Don't leave their side if you are on main side until you physically see them let go of it. . When they won't let go of it smack them on the hand. When they still won't let go, pull the main pin. 4) If you are by yourself on say a solo turn dive and have to stop a turn from the reserve side near or at pull time, if a student won't open their parachute and you are unable to dump them for whatever reason, remember the reserve handle is on your side. You can always pull that. 5) Communicate with your students. When they check in with you, even though you may be working your butt off, make eye contact with them and smile. Smiling is the biggest relax signal of all. 6) If a student takes you on a ride or nearly gives you a heart attack, high five them after they land and start the debrief off with something positive. 7) Find another AFF Instructor who you like and trust and go to them with your questions. You should have many. 8) Relax but not to the point that you are complacent. 9) When a student goes through and reviews the skydive in the airplane or on the ground, pay attention to the ways in which they deviate from the planned skydive. Many times it is a good indication of what they will do in the air. 10) Never panic. 11) Always be prepared ahead of time for an aircraft emergency with a student. There is a very good chance that it "could" happen eventually. 12) Don't ever think we can't do it as good as boys do. 13) Have fun and think about what an honor you hold to be able to take someone out on their first skydive or their graduation dive into the skydiving community. Because it truly is a gift. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Kipsix: I can understand your degree of panic as a new student in the sport. Everything to you right now is going to seem like overload and learning to skydive can be very stressful. Once you learn how to fly stable on your belly your stress level will go down. I can remember being a student. However, there is something Glenn Bangs taught me while I was surviving his AFF Instructor rating course. PANIC stands for Past All Normal Intelligent Comprehension. I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned your PADI Instructor turning off your air. If you skipped that step of your equipment check and went into the water without doing what you were trained to do, what would happen? When I went through my PADI training our instructor did do that to us and in my advanced course our instructor had a reputation of turning your air off under water. Although the unexpected thought of running out of air underwater scared the bejesus out of me as a new diver, I took precautionary measures to prepare myself in that event, i.e. I had a plan that I would quickly swim over to my buddy or whoever was nearby, either grab their secondary and clear it or give them the out of air signal and request a buddy breathe. Although I do not agree with burbling a student, (I learned by not passing one of my practice eval jumps that you should never be above or below a student in freefall as it is dangerous, I failed an otherwise perfect jump at the very end when I choked and slipped under Glenn for about 4 seconds) ... I do not think that there is anything wrong with fruitlooping a student or doing something out of the ordinary on a grad jump. I do stuff with my students all the time. But I always try to make sure they are having fun. By graduation they aren't totally comfortable usually but theyare able to handle a spin release or recover from any instability. Before our students get to graduate they have to perform two barrel roles and a backward loop requiring them to get intentionally unstable on all axes. You sound a bit uptight and nervous. I can understand that as you are learning an extreme sport (meaning you can die doing it). If you understand and accept that risk going into it, try to relax during your experience and realize most AFF instructors are very competent flyers. You can always save your own life and end the skydive by pulling that little handle. Your AFF I is your backup pull. If he or she fails, you have Cypres or Vigil. If none of those worked, dude, skydiving just wasn't your thing. Lighten up, have fun, relax, don't panic, listen to your instructors and most of all be safe. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

BSBD Max. When I heard the news, I thought, I only know one "Max" in Hawaii. I couldn't believe it when I realized it really was Max! He was a Skydive Hawaii icon. I remember thinking he was either an optimist or an extremist when he bought a lifetime membership to USPA when he was like 65. What a sad day to learn about this tragedy. Sympathies to Max's family and to the family of the tandem passenger. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Awe Shark!!! I tried to fit SoCal in, but the airline logistics wouldn't let me on this trip, so I am stopping in Vegas instead. Damn it Jim! Still got that bottle of wine with my name on it? LOL That was like 2-3 years ago now huh? Good to see you still on the forums. Take care. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Hey Frost: Take it easy there. I posted this to get information from experienced people after a conversation I had with some of my swoop buddies. I am trying to understand how stitching risers affects canopy flight and performance if it does. I appreciate your opinion and I understand the point you are trying to make. However, I am not talking about swooper wannabes here. I am trying to understand a concept. Thank you. Blue skies and carry on. Thanks Swoopster for the info that makes a lot of sense and also correlates to another poster on my other thread in Gear and Rigging. It also helps me to understand how the stitching and length of stitching affects the glide under canopy. I am already being asked to stitch risers for some of my friends and I want to understand what I am doing first. Additionally, I am getting ready to hook up a pair to a smaller canopy of mine and was curious how if any they affect performance. They are a friend's who has an extra set of risers and I just happen to need a set. Yes he is a top notch swooper and no I am not. I am just a "swooper in training", so it's not like I need em or anything. I am also a rigger and wanting to hear people's opinions who have experience with this. Thanks again for everyone's input. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

This is also posted in the Gear and Rigging Forum: OK so I am looking for some feedback from swoopers and riggers on what their opinions are of stitched risers and how they affect the performance of the canopy. Any physics savvy people who can explain the physics of why canopy pilots are stitching their risers laterally besides reduction in drag? Thanks and blue skies. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Alrighty then, it is nice to see some old friends hybriding together and Chop Chop's name as vidiot for the cover of Parachutist. You Go Chop Chop!!! I kinda miss skydiving with Chop Chop. There are blue skies over here in Missouri though (when it is not winter ). So ... Hi to Chop Chop and Iwan and Plaything and Geno and all of the rest of the Cali folk. Good to see Keith and Chris Q still flying too! Lookin good Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Moving to the midwest from sunny California and warm tropical Hawaii, I thought I could adapt to be a cold weather jumper ... Heck, I'm tough ... And everyone else was doing it ... SO I decided to devise a way to skydive when it was 23 degrees on the ground covered with snow. It took me about a half hour, but what I came up with was a plan. Thinking I was cool, being like all the other cold weather skydivers, I exuberantly boarded the airplane for my first skydive in the snow; a 4,500 ft. hop n pop. As soon as I got out on a bad spot which was also my first time jumping at this particular airport and realized that in the 'ole airport aerial photo we saw, the ground was not "white", I eventually realized by seeing my smaller VX, Velo friends that I was waaaaaay downwind ... Shise! And after landing in snow "off" and realizing Damn, what if I had a cutaway in this stuff... And ... After being a full time cold winter AFF instructor last year ... Ummm, I think I'll stick to rigging indoors with heat and go skydive someplace warm like Florida and Hawaii this winter

My God Jenn! I just read your post and had to respond. Kudos to you girl. From one Jen to another. I have been there sister. Well, not quite there, but I can certainly understand. It sounds like that was a seriously scary skydive. All I can say is that I have had one or two of those myself. You cannot blame or beat yourself up for what you did. Thanks for sharing your story with us. Blue skies, Jen Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Wow, thank you to everyone who responded to this post. Especially crazydiver. I am no ProSwooper by any means of the word which is why I ask the advice of all you knowledgable people. I hope to get really good one day, but I am just at the start of a small incline getting ready to climb a large hill. I am however a rigger and even understanding the way the parachute operates, I am really trying to imagine in my head what kinds of changes stitched risers can make; in more of a scientific observation. Pro swoopers are using them so maybe they actually do have some effect and then as one has mentioned, maybe it is a placebo effect. I like hanging out with and listening to my swoop buddies, they are a hoot to listen to. I used to make fun of them (in a loving way of course) about all the shit they have on their parachutes and all the stuff they have to remember just to fly the dang thing. I would see them literally when they first started using RDSs, dirt diving their removal of it in the airplane. When I'd watch them pack, I'd see them messing with all that stuff. In my mind I was like, does all that crap really make that much of a difference? To myself I thought, I would never have all that crap to deal with. And so ... they have taken me under their wing. Now, what do you know, they are like you need to get rid of that slider and those bumper slider grommet stops. I need a pair of risers for my 107 and my buddy has his stitched ones he said he'd hook me up with. I was like okay ... and then the conversation started. So what do those things really do for the canopy anyway ... Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

And how many jumpers carry a radar gun in their kit bag? Sparky At Quantum Leap, we have serious technology . Just look at our name for crying out loud! Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

In reality, if you could beneift from the reductioni n drag, you're the sort of jumper who would want an increase to the dive-e-ness of your canopy. If there does prove to be an increase in dive, let me know. Also let me know what kind of thread to use, becasue I'll stich mine down right away. Well, steepness at this point would not bother me. I am under a lightly wingloaded Stiletto. A more aggressive dive at the ground will probably give me a better flare. I will let you know about the dive increase if I get one. I have heard stitched risers speed up the canopy a great deal. The people I get my information from fly JVX 89s and Velo 96s and are placing 1st in swoop competitions. They have the RDSs and Vectran lines. Me, I am just starting to learn how to fly my Stiletto 120 before I downsize to a 107 and then I have a Jedi 105 to fly when I am done with the 107. I listen to my canopy mentors who have this gradual do this first then try this. One day I hope to fly a crossbrace but I have to start somewhere. I am doing what I can to practice higher performance landings loaded up on weight and getting used to the mods early on something bigger so I don't do all of my learning on a handkerchief if you know what I mean ... The ground is hard. So basically, my Stiletto 120 can be as fast and ground hungry as it likes, I am not sure what kind of change if any stitched risers will have and I won't know until I use em in Florida after Christmas cause it's too damn cold here to jump!!! Edited to reply to Sparky: Radar guns Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. Basically, we are stitching the risers so that the leading edge is the thinnest part. What I meant by lateral was to give you some picture in your mind. When something is dorsally compressed think of the dorsal fin of a fish and where it is located. On the back of the fish. If you smooshed the fish dorsally you would compress it from its dorsal side like a sand dollar. Laterally compressed means compressing from side to side like a sunfish. I am contemplating buying some risers from one of my ProSwoop buddies. We were discussing the stitched riser effect and there was no arguing that it reduces drag ... but I have also heard that it makes the canopy more ground hungry and aggressive and I was wondering from those who have flown or know about stitched risers what their opinion is or how stitching the risers changes riser pressure thereby making it more aggressive? Thanks and I hope that clears up some confusion Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Glenn Bangs (if he is still course directing) Why? #1. Very professional. #2. Knows his shit as well as anyone out there. #3. No B.S. at his course. #4. If you do what he tells you to and you have the skills, you will get the rating. (I got my rating with less than 400 jumps because I listened to him and learned a lot from him) #5. He is super cool. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Congrats Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

OK so I am looking for some feedback from canopy swoopers and riggers on what their opinions are of stitched risers and how they affect the performance of the canopy. Any physics savy people who can explain the physics of why canopy pilots are stitching their risers laterally besides reduction in drag? Thanks and blue skies. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Damn Troy! You got your Tandem rating and you are already flying a Velo-96??? DAMN !!! I can't believe you are doing tandems And flying a Velo-96. OK we have to catch up. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Troy!!! What is up Dude? Guess what? I am going to be in Lake Wales the 26th thru the 29th with some friends for that canopy skills camp so I will get to see you!!! I am not sure when we what date we are leaving Florida (we are driving down from Missouri on Monday the 26th). You and I will have to catch up over a beer for sure! I would be participating in the camp if I didn't still suck. I am really starting to want to learn though. My swoop friends just got me all hooked up with the little bungy ball on my reserve flap so I can completely collapse my slider and I am starting to learn to fly the hell out of my 120 Stiletto with a 107 waiting in a 2nd rig for me. I am really only just starting to learn though and I listen to my canopy mentors. You will meet them all, look out for Nick Batsch, Robert Cook and Brian Kurzawa. I am more or less around for the ride and I may be their packing bitch for a day to help them make those 60 hop n pops Whew What is going on that week at the DZ? Any specialty aircraft for the Christmas Boogie? Any info on the Christmas Boogie? See ya in Florida!!! Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

I have always wanted to get a large class of students in the first jump course (AFF). Start the class with the introductions and then give a short briefing in reference to the first jump course: We go up, we jump out, we come down, we count to ten, we pull this little handle, the parachute comes out, we fly it down and we land. Any questions? Alrighty then, who is ready to skydive? It would be fun to play Fandango for a day and see the expressions on their faces Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Not sure if any of mine are already mentioned ... We like to rouse our students periodically. With the "right" student it is fun and it breaks the ice. Plus, it gives us instructors a way to make our day even more entertaining. Yes, it is somewhat bizarre but on take-off, located adjacent to our airport there is a cemetary right there full of tombstones. Sometimes I tell students to look out the window. I reference the graves and how those students forgot to arch on exit . Awe, come on ... It is funny When they ask what those "gripper" things are, we tell them we put them on there so it makes the trip to the hospital much easier, that way we can just throw you in the 'ole ambulance. Sometimes we talk about our days in prison, how we were let out of the mental institution a little too soon, it is no big deal that our prescriptions for our wellness meds have run out, how we are kind of new at this, going through the probationary period and how they told me if I bring you back in one piece, they will let me go again ... This is my second time Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

Hmmm, I think I'd have charged him double Kel ... Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

In response to all these posts, I don't necessarily think an AFF-I should lose their rating ... however, I am unsure what you mean by "dropped". Killed? Lost? Cypres fire? Frankly, and I can only speak for myself here, if a student under my supervision went in, I would not continue to instruct, maybe even skydive. Lose a student during a skydive? I guess it all depends. Losing a student temporarily on a release dive, it happens. Did you get back in time? Were you there at pull time? There are too many variables to consider. As far as trying goes, most of the AFF-Is I know and work with, work their butts off trying but I think we all try very hard to prevent things from happening. I think as far as what we do, we all strive for perfection eventhough we have to accept that we cannot be perfect all the time. As far as tumbling students, I have had them and dealt with them. I have however also seen video of students I do not think I could stop or would seriously wonder how or if. The one that comes to mind was on one of Skydive Chicago's best of AFF. The video was played after we earned our ratings as sort of a, you think we (the evaluators were bad...) WATCH THIS-----> They explained to us in the course that they were targeting specific skills and instructor abilities but that as much as they challenged us, they would never be able to replicate some of the abilities of young skydivers. Anyway, this one student began doing rotational cartwheels in the sky and I mean vertical. He was boxed out in a vertical spin and his arms and legs looked like blender blades. Now, me personally, Yes I am going to try and do what I can to help the student until 2,000 feet, but aggressively attacking an out of control blender may not be the smartest way to handle it. In a situation like that I may hesitate to dive in. Does that mean I am not trying? Not necessarily. Should my rating be pulled? It is my opinion that we do what we can on the ground and hopefully have respect for what could go wrong in the air. Being a lifegaurd taught me about prevention being the best safeguard from emergency. I think the bottom line is that we cannot ever expect a guarantee in the game of life. You have to fly if you are going to do AFF. I consider AFF a challenge sometimes and that is one of the reasons I enjoy doing it. I would hope that the people who earned their ratings demonstrated the abilities necessary. Glenn Bangs was my Course Director and he said it very plainly. I believe the story went: An AFF I candidate offered him a very large sum of money for a rating. Glenn's position was, why would you want this rating when you do not possess the skill or ability? It is not like we are rolling a bowling ball down an alley. We are throwing ourselves out of airplanes at high speeds toward the ground. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."