olemisscub

Well, the one on the left is obviously the Bing sketch and he used it as a template. Spreckel merely adjusted the width of the forehead one-sixteenth of an inch (according to the agent).

That was Tom being confused by what he was reading. Tracking the first day or two of the sketches is very complicated, so it's understandable he'd get that mixed up. That drawing that came from Vegas was done using Tina's description without her real-time assistance. There is a 302 that specifically states that it was drawn using Tina's description. Gregory did go through the Facial ID Catalog on Nov 25th though, so that might be the confusion. Roy Rose didn't get out to see the stews until Nov 26th. However, the FBI had already sent Rose the catalog selections from Gregory as well as from Flo and Alice and maybe a handful of others. So I'd be curious to know if he had already drawn a rough outline of the first Bing sketch using the ID kit numbers before he got to the stews and then made in person adjustments OR if Bing was completely created on the fly. This is one of the reasons I'd really like to get that Facial ID Catalog. I'd be interested to see if some of those early ID kit selections from the 25th made it into the Bing sketch. That would give us our answer to whether Bing was drawn on the fly.

The one about the looking Mexican on page 24 is Gregory. Page 25 is Labissoniere. 26 is again Gregory 27 is a repeat of the info from Page 25, so it's Labissoniere again. 28, the Nov 21 one is Gregory and Nov 22 is Labissoniere. 29 is either Bill or Spreckel, but likely Spreckel. 30 is Labissoniere. 31 is Labissoniere. 32 is Gregory It's important to remember that the majority of what you're seeing there are criticisms of the Bing sketch. Only pages 28-30 are criticisms of Comp B. The ID kit would be nice to have and what we were just discussing slipped through all of our fingers last week on Ebay. I was so pissed when I saw that someone had sold one of those that it gave me a migraine. Been looking diligently for that book for over a year. Interestingly, we do have this sketch on the right that was actually drawn by Spreckel. I've FOIA'd for a high res scan of it. I'll certainly post it whenever I receive it.

The head shape is consistent with essentially every witness description, with Alice's head shape selection, and also consistent with photos of Allen Cooper and Donald Murphy, two men we know that the stews picked out of photo lineups as looking like Cooper. Hell, all Nancy House could remember was that he had dark hair and a narrow face. Cooper 100% had a narrow face with a sharp chin.

Gregory isn’t wildly far off. He used the term russett to describe Cooper’s suit and Tina called it brown. So I tend to agree that his suit wasn’t black. The people who claimed that his suit was black were likely just visualizing his raincoat/topcoat, which was definitely black

Nov 25th

No. I wish. I even contacted the seller to ask if he had another or where he got it from. I was livid when I saw it AFTER it had sold. I've been religious with looking for one of those on ebay for a solid year now. I guess I got distracted with CooperCon and forgot to check this past month.

Headshape that Robert Gregory picked out

It's a real shame this interview with Tina never took place. Although maybe it took place over the phone or something and it's going to be in one of the upcoming internal files released by the vault. Regardless, I'd love to see the answers to these questions.

Correct, plus we know the provenance of the yellow map. It definitely came from 71. The FBI received it the next day.

But again, it wasn't a challenge. You didn't make a definitive statement about it. You just said that you thought it wasn't actually yellow paper. Your statement made me curious. I asked Tom. I supplied his answer. It wasn't a challenge. It was merely an addition to the conversation, same as what you are saying made you post the SAGE document.

It wasn't a debate!!! You said you thought it was a certain color but that this was due to lamination. I was curious about it myself. I sought clarification. I supplied what Tom said. It wasn't meant at ALL to challenge you or be like "durrr Flyjack is wrong na-na-na!" This is my whole point about the way you view this case. You take everything that is at all contrary to what YOU think or what YOU say as some sort of personal attack or personal affront. It's bizarre. We all greatly respect your research on the case. I can't speak for others but personally I just wish you were more of a team player and weren't so sensitive.

You said I "challenged you". How did I challenge you?

yep. We've all seen this. We've been battling with Eric's ridiculous notion that it wasn't a SAGE map for months now on the FB group and have used this as evidence.

challenged you? You said you "think" it wasn't yellow underneath. I was curious myself. I asked Tom because I figured he'd know. I supplied you with his response. Don't mistake my tone here, because this isn't written aggressively, but merely out of curiosity. Why do you view this case as a contest among researchers? I view it as a collective effort. It's like you claiming some sort of proprietary status over coming up with the tornado. Why even mention it? Are there bonus points being rewarded for coming up with a theory? This isn't a contest. No one is challenging you or fighting with you. Most serious researchers have each made individual contributions to the case that all add up to help tell the full story.

nm

He may not have had an actual LZ in so far as “planning”. Just anywhere around Clark or Cowlitz would have been fine with him. He’d figure it once he landed. Mac was essentially just wanting to jump somewhere that was in northern Indiana or Michigan so long as it wasn’t Lake Erie. LaPoint apparently just wanted to jump anywhere north of Denver. Hahneman may have known he was over Honduras but he certainly wouldn’t have had a precise LZ in mind. I posit Cooper was the same way. Oh, and I asked Tom about the map. He said the map is laminated but he’s pretty sure that the actual sheet that the map is on is yellow.

Those are all fine opinions, and I'm starting to understand your point with all of this, but they are still just opinions derived from assumptions. None of us know what the guy was thinking. But I totally get your point about why he would he even care to argue about a refueling stop if he intended to jump early in the trip. That element has always made me wonder what he was thinking during all of that. Would LA and SF also have flown down V-23? To say there is no evidence for a Portland DZ is obvious...but there is no evidence for ANY particular DZ. One thing I've learned from getting close to Mac over the past year is how intricately he planned certain things yet completely brain farted on others. I get that sense from Cooper at times. Mac and Cooper aren't exact analogs but it appears that they were both winging a good bit of their hijacking. I do have a hard time with your theory that Cooper didn't have any idea of where he wanted to jump. All of the copycats at least had a rough estimation of where they wanted to jump. They all were planning to jump near where they felt they'd be safe. Mac was planning to jump within an hour (driving time) of Detroit, Hahneman jumped into Honduras, LaPoint was living in Denver at the time and jumped 90 miles north of Denver, and of course Heady and McCoy were jumping very close to their homes. As for the Mexico thing, my belief is that Cooper did a little research and saw that the max range of a 727-100 was about 2400 miles and, incidentally, Mexico City is almost exactly 2400 miles from Seattle. Seems to me he wanted the plane to be in flight (without him still in it) for the maximum amount of time, so he picked Mexico City. Of course he seems to later say "anywhere in Mexico", but the point stands.

There is nothing in any of that which negates a Portland area DZ. It IS evidence against a Seattle DZ, however.

I know your theory and I've genuinely tried to understand it numerous times. Either I'm an idiot or you haven't explained it well (or maybe both), but I've never been able to understand what you are trying to convey when you've gone through it. I've tried. Regardless, I don't think he wanted to jump outside Seattle. He wasn't even ready to jump when they took off. I checked my messages and the first time anyone messaged me about the Vancouver tornado was Nicky back in June when he sent me an article about the tornado. So unless you told him about it, then he had a similar idea as you.

Drew Beeson and I did an anniversary show for anyone interested.

This is why it's critically important that Tom be allowed to put sticky stubs on the museum chute. We need a control FROM the plane to be run against the tie.

I’m so, so glad he gave that up and didn’t double down on it

“No soil” Silt is a type of soil I believe

Video I took of McNally reuniting with a 727 for the first time. The audio improves after about 20 seconds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ7T7ioES_8