diverdriver

Ok, wildblue, I PM'd you but I get an error message. So I hope ya get it. Thanks. Chris

Alright, that's enough. Just because others are offering more accounts, and we happen to be regulars at SDC, doesn't mean we think that nothing can ever be wrong there. A post was put up about why Andy Man doesn't like SDC. But in a later post he says he's not "anti-SDC". If he's not "anti-SDC" then the tone of his post has been misconstrued. Now, I sent a PM to Andy about why the guy on the golf cart took as long as he did to get out there. I believe Andy was satisfied with that in his response to me. Could the guy on the golf cart have asked a better question first? Yes. He could have and probably should have. This subject is not going to be swept away. But don't imply that we are some sort of cultists just because we offer more information from different perspectives than the original post. I believe we just went through a thread on an otter running out of gas during a formation load. I believe as more information came out and others posted on it we learned that the original situation was not as serious as previously reported. The subject was dropped. No one faulted the posters who gave different accounts of what happened. And it was nice to clear the subject. Can you see where I'm going with this? Maybe there are reasons why people reacted in the manner that they did. We all bring our different perspectives to a situation as it happens. Personally, I have had streams of people go running over the runway just as I was touching down. This is very dangerous. As an operation, you don't know the personal backgrounds of each of the jumpers. So if they don't know you have advanced medial training they will act like they don't want you in a dangerous situation. May I remind you of the prop strikes? The perspective of the person on the golf cart may have been totally different from the others involved. So am I rambling here or am I just another one of "those people." Chris Schindler ATP/CFII D-19012

We have been seeing this sort of thing happen with risers that have open toggle keepers. The top of the toggle knub is exposed. Put PD "Slinks" on there and there is nothing to slow the slider down from hitting that knub and knocking a toggle loose. We're pushing people to get different risers or have their current risers modified so that it can't be knocked out. I think Relative Workshop's "True Lock" system is great. We are also pushing people to get the riser hard housings installed because the resulting spiral (or spin) can, and has, thrown people into unrecoverable line twists on heavily loaded canopies. Is this a possibility with what happened to you? Chris Schindler ATP/CFII D-19012 www.DiverDriver.com

Yes, they do. And they rent out their gear to non-students too. Are you sure this was a student who piled in? And if he piled in on a taxiway then he is too close to the buildings. There are 250 acres to land in out there. "Land safe, not close" comes to mind right now. Oh, and I saw a girl bust a femur on a Genesis 300 (that's 300 square feet) so I guess people can get hurt on any type canopy. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII

Oh, I hate that too. I usually end up sitting in the plane the whole time because it'll "just be a minute." Chris

Pulling up on the ramp and then seeing the jumpers begin to stroll down to load the plane. Taking more than 2 minutes to load. Not counting how many people are standing there to get on the load then trying to load too many people on. Talking to me about where the jumprun should be after I've already turned the green light on. I mean really, you just now want to let me know what you want? Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII

I've got one of my own from O'Hare. Afectionately known as O'Scare. One stormy night when all the departures were shut down and we had all taxied out to be ready once the departures would start again I actually heard this exchange. Many flights had been sitting out there for two hours by the time we came on the frequency and took our slot in line. Ground controller: "To all aircraft, don't call us for departure times because we don't know yet and we are very busy trying to get you out of here." Not even 20 seconds later a United flight: "O'Hare ground when are we gonna be able to get out of here?" Of course the Ground Controller was ticked off by this unprofesionalism while trying to do his job. Ground Control: "I've got a 3 year old and a 5 year old that listen better than you guys do!" Unknown pilot: "Somebody needs a knap." Ground Control: "Oh no, I just got here. You have to listen to me for the next two and a half hours!" Dead silence on the frequency for about 30 more seconds. Another United flight: "Ground, any idea on when we're gonna be getting out of here?" Ground control: "Not long, just as soon as I get a clear shot I'll get you out of there and right over to the Penalty Box where you can sit and think about how you're acting." (The Penalty Box is an actual area of pavement at O'Hare to sit when you've been bad or you don't have a gate to park at.) Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP,CFII www.DiverDriver.com

It all depends on the paper work done to make the plane jump legal. Most Cessnas have an inflight door. In the paperwork for the 337 (FAA form for modifications) it will state that all persons on board need to have an emergency parachute. This includes the pilot. I think a lot of it has to do with the statement (paraphrasing) all occupants in the "cabin" will wear an emergency chute. Since the pilot is in the Cabin in a 182, 205, 206, etc....they have to have it. BUT, any plane that has the chance of being taken out by a premature deployment over the horizontal stabilizer should wear an emergency bailout rig. Look at the accident in Australia where the pilot got out of a Cessna 208 Caravan at the last second after having the tail ripped off in just such a case. Casa's, Otter's, Skyvans have almost no chance of this happening. Now, people like to climb on the tail of the Otter and could PUT themselves in a position to foul out the tail with a premature. That help? Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

You go right on asking for kindness Zenn. That's all we can do. Civilized discussion is not easy. It's actually hard. It's harder for some people. We've all been there when we say something dumb. We get corrected. I know this from personal experience. But how we deal with it after the correction or response is what makes us civilized or the next guest on Jerry Springer. Chris Schindler

This was tried once and the pilot could not hang on and fell to his death. It was out of a porter a few years back (I believe it was in Israel but that's a vague guess on my part). But still, I think you have a better chance on a PD 143 than on a Raven. That's a whole nother thread. And thirdly, if I was going for water I would have them hang on till splash down. People have cutaway over water trying to be cool and misjudged their height. It killed them. The cutaway happened at more like 100 feet. And I hope I never have to actually try this. I just take the time and check people's chest straps as they get on or sit around me. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Exactly. Skydivers are not on board for our entertainment. If we're bored as jump pilots then we need to go do something else. It's just not professional to do things to make you feel uneasy. Chris Schindler www.DiverDriver.com

I know all about that deal. And it wasn't 10EA. It was another one. And that pilot was about chewed up for it. Of course, the jumpers involved (I was told) also encouraged the pilot to do the negative Gs to get the raft out the door. I've flown raft jumps in the Otter and it is totally unecessary. But then again, jumpers aren't pilots and don't understand all the forces involved (and potential hazards) in certain maneuvers. Hence, my warning against asking a pilot to do them that hasn't done them before. Chris Schindler ATP/CFII D-19012 www.DiverDriver.com

Well, to all of you who think this is great fun, let me tell you what it is doing to the plane. The engines (turbines) aren't made for negative G's. Anytime you go from the floor to the roof that is negative G's. Zero G's would be where you just get light on the floor and you can push off and you don't come back to the floor. The vast majority of pilots out there don't know how to do the maneuver correctly. Sorry, to be a wet blanket. But your pilots are fucking the plane. The oil system isn't designed for prolonged negative G's like in this maneuver. The turbine wheels (on a turbine engine) are spinning at aprox. 15,000 to 30,000 RPM depending on type of engine. There are extremely tight tolerances on these wheels that are "plugged" by engine oil. What do you think happens when the oil stops flowing to these vital parts? Damage. You may not see it the first time, or second time. But down the road it will catch up to you. And it will probably happen to the "other" pilot who came in after the "really great pilot who always gave us a thrill" is gone. Been there. On piston engines, same thing. The oil can stop flowing to the engine and damage can occur to only be found down the road. Nice huh? Please, don't ask your pilots to do this negative G maneuver and don't let them do it. Your little "yippy!" can turn into someone else's "Oh shit" down the road. You want to do acrobatics? Go get in a plane with a pilot rated for acrobatics. Jump Planes are not made to do this! Chris Schindler ATP/CFII D-19012 www.DiverDriver.com

Oh yah, I did the old green light first switcharoo once on a 100 way drop. Sheesh. Drop 300 people on the airport perfectly 24 times in a row and miss a 100 way 3 tenths short and your name is mud. Well, they said if I was gonna miss, miss to the south and that's what I did. So Nyahhh!!!! Chris Schindler ATP/CFII D-19012 www.DiverDriver.com

Yes, there should always be one person looking down and one person looking at the lights. They can communicate to each other and agree that the climb out is right. Chris Schindler ATP/CFII D-19012 http://www.DiverDriver.com

No sharing of seatbelts. The child can be held on your lap up to 2 years of age. During preperation for a forced landing that might turn into a hard landing you are to place the child under the seat in front of you like carry on luggage. Love your child? BUY THEM A TICKET AND FLIGHT APPROVED BABY SEAT!!! You don't think accidents can happen to you? Just look at NTSB.gov and you'll be able to see each accident on file per month. Look on the right side of the screen and you'll see "Part 121". That's airline stuff. Happens all the time. Plane runs into something. Has to evacuate. Hits turbulence. You want your 20-30 pound child out loose? You think you're strong enough to hold on to them? Please get a Flight approved seat and use it. Chris Schindler ATP (Airline Transport Pilot)

Addition: Helicopters don't fly. They just beat the air into submission! Wop, wop, wop, wop, wop, wop, wop, wop, ka thud!!!! Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Exactly. No sharing. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Everyone duck!!! Shits gonna start flying now!!! Clay, look out! Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Yah, Ancient! 1996!!!! Man, ages ago!!!!! Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

And the rest of the skydivers at his DZ are saying: "Damn! Now he'll wanna jump all the time! Next pilot!" Cheers and congrats! Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Yah, Kelli, was she trying to flare? Suddenly changing how they were flying together at 20-30 feet sounds, at the surface, that this jumper did something that caused the wrap or entanglement. Is that a possibility? Advice on two canopies out is that you fly both with brakes STOWED and NO flare. PLF. More info would be appreciated. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

I'm sorry E150. My true sarcasm just didn't come across. The post was just in jest and not to really pick on anyone. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Oh my gawd. I think the guys are more sensitive on this forum than the chicks!!!! Do you guys have a spine??!!!!! Caring about someone else's feelings more than your own! Oh, .....and I cried when I read your post too. Someone pass me a tissue would ya? Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com