diverdriver

Heineken. Thanks. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Well, a long story short.....I came to Skydive Chicago as a packer. Only two people knew I was a pilot and had jump pilot experience. I didn't broadcast this info either. Well, they needed me in the DC-3 Mr. Douglas one day for the right seat and so I filled in. Man, the looks I got getting up there. A few grumbles of "Man, they'll let anyone get up there as long as they have a heart beat." So, low and behold I start training for the Twin Otter during the week and packing on the weekend still. Then the time comes....I'm in the left seat and Roger Nelson is in the right. A few odd stares come our way but some one says something about "Oh, he's got some time" or another. Climbing to altitude Roger gets up, tightens down, and bails out the plane. Now that was a lot of startled faces! Not to mention my first solo landing in the Otter. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Yes I can. I read all about them every day on the FAA Daily Intake website. Aircraft land gear up every day of the week. That pilot made a very human mistake. When you get to cranking load after load it's easy to forget where you are. And since we crank load after load we (as jump pilots) tend not to use a written check list. This leads us down the road to forget and then land with the gear folded. Ooops. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Now that's funny! Not really a good thing to do but really funny. I've done that when I had a licensed pilot/jumper in the right seat I've crawled to the back of the Otter to have a conversation. Gets more than one persons attention. Did it when I flew my last load at Monterey Bay. Skip the photographer was pretty startled when I tapped him on the shoulder. I don't think he was expecting me when he looked up. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Which part of the First Jump Course wasn't clear when they said "Don't touch any of the pilot controls. Ever." Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Yeah, you all just keep it up with your pilot pranks. I'm writing ALL YALL's names down. See if you get any extra altitude out of ME! Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

You're correct. We don't "have to". But it is recommended to be done once a year. Safety Day is a great time to get it done too. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Call ParaGear in Skokie. I believe they'll do an Inspection and Repack for you. Is that close enough to Chicago for ya? Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Ok Rainbo. I'll stop making you look old. Even though you are. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Doubtful. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Opie, Email me. diverdriver@hotmail.com Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

We jumped in Chicago! It was 20F on the ground and not much colder at altitude (maybe 0F) but it was gorgeous with half a foot of snow all over. 5 people in a Super Otter with a new stereo system jamming tunes. Thanks Roger. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

I flew one weekend at Summer Fest and jumped bigway (40-60) stuff the rest of the time. Decentralized manifesting, large hangar for packing, dirt diving, vendors, cooling off, large pond for swimming sunbathing, river for canooing, horse back riding, the Bell 222 helicopter, four otters, DC-3. Sound good for yah? And that's just scratching the surface. Last year there were many coaches for freeflying and flat flyers. Bigway to 1 on 1 coaching. And it's a fun party. You can make it as big as you want or as small as you want. It's available for your taking. The airport is privately owned for skydivers. The dates are set and the event will happen. I've been to Quincy several times in my short time in the sport. I had a good time every time I went. So I'm certainly not bashing anything about the WFFC. I would also suggest the Labor Day boogie at Richmond, IN, Lost Prairie, and Couch Freaks. Any one of these you'll have a good time at too. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Well, the Freak Brother Convention happened all well before my time but I might be able to give the Reader's Digest version. The way I understand it, it started as the Freak Brother Reunion. It was held at Big Foot, Wisconsin. Someone else is going to have to fill in the years. I believe it was there for two years and then Roger moved it to Freeport, IL to handle larger (and more) aircraft. But the Freak Brother Convention quickly out grew Freeport so Roger moved it to Quincy, Illinois to have more room and to go for bigger records. Someone correct me, but I believe the 120 and 144 were done at Quincy. The move to Quincy may have been because of the plans to bring in a C-130. Not sure, that is spectulation on my part. As far as I know they did refer to the female members as Freak Sisters. A good video history of Freeport and early Quincy is "Largest Formation". I've only seen it at Skydive Chicago but I believe it was produced and distributed years ago. It still might be floating around. Well, that's most of what I know. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

I'm glad I was proven wrong. Course, I wasn't trying to make any accusations either. The original post that brought this on talked about an otter running out of gas. I posted that "IF" that happened....yadda...yadda....yadda. This board isn't the NTSB so nothing official can ever be expected here. But I'm still concerned about the attitudes that originally thought running out of gas wasn't a big deal. No disrespect to any jumpers, but the average jumper doesn't know very much about aircraft safety. Skydivers put a lot of trust into an operation to take care of them. Oh, sure. You've signed the waiver, but we as operators are required to give due care. I hope this thread serves two purposes: 1) Don't post inflamatory information unless you're sure of your info. The following posts will take on a life of their own. 2) Increase your self worth and expect nothing but the best from your aircraft operator and pilot. Just because it's "skydiving" doesn't mean we can have a laclustor (sp?) attitude toward aircraft safety and operation. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Thank you for clearing that up. I hope all can rest well now. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

This would be the question I'm asking then. Was there an actual engine failure during this incident? Or was the abort called after the engine failure? When (whoever it was) said that the otter "ran out of gas" I would take that as there being an engine failure. Now, if I (and many others) have taken that wrong it would be good to clear that up. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Ok, I just got an email asking me to way in on this thread. Where do I start? Background: I was the Chief Pilot on the World Record 246-way in 1998. I flew the Lead Otter (following three Casa's) which was the base plane and I was responsible for spotting the loads. Now, since I wasn't there and only going on some of what has been posted here, IF the low fuel lights came on (the forward tank comes on at 75 lbs and the aft tank comes on at 110 lbs while in level flight) then you have roughly 15-20 minutes of useable fuel. By FARs you are required to cary fuel for the flight PLUS thirty (30) minutes. So if those lights come on you are already into your RESERVE fuel by 10-15 minutes in level cruise. But what are we doing here? We're on climb power at altitude. Fuel flow will be higher than normal cruise so if you're climbing when those lights come on your are really screwing the pooch. ESPECIALLY ON A FORMATION LOAD! Now, if even one of the engines flamed out during this whole ordeal I really question his attitude toward aircraft and jump operation safety. This IS a big deal. There are no excuses that can validate the decision to continue when a known low fuel situation was developing. My otter had all the fat boys with lead in spandex (shudder to think). I can think of no excuses for not having enough fuel on board for at least two passes and then landing with plenty of fuel afterwards. If you got stuck at altitude due to anything (line up, ATC, clouds, etc) and saw a low fuel situation developing well then it's a DAMN ABORT. You don't wait for an engine to flame out to make the decision for you. As for the Twin Otter fuel system: It's great when maintained according to airworthiness. I have found that the guages can be VERY accurate when calibrated by an A&P mechanic. Plus the low fuel lights aren't part of the typical guaging system. It is an INDEPENDANT system for redundancy. Remember, these planes were airliners not so long ago and still are in many places. The guaging system is very good when properly maintained. I think I've said my piece on this now. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

And this means......what? When I was the full time pilot man you had to watch cloesly for me to show up at the bonfire. I was exhausted after a full day of flying. 35 loads a day to 13k takes its' toll. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Ok, I guess I just stuck my nose where it don't belong. Is this DZ in the US or somewhere else? After reading the lengthy thread in the other section I think it's NOT in the US. Sorry, I've got no buisness here. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

If you have POSITIVE proof (you saw it happen with your own eyes) then you need to tell USPA headquarters (whether they are a Group Member DZ or not) and you need to call the FAA. That's bullshit. If you need help email me privately and we can discuss it. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Oh yeah, we had good support from SDC and I expect the same and more this year. Count on it. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

Unless that one procedure would add to the problem rather than help. That was the point of the story I told which I know has happened more than once. If you cutaway but your risers are covered by the keepers then you can have loose risers which can then catch and entangle with the deploying reserve and rendering it useless. Dealing with two canopies out is a much more "controlled" (relative term) environment than an entanglement. 1. Make sure you pull at an altitude that you can handle emergencies. 2. Don't box yourself into a corner with only one procedure. One size does not fit all. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

YOU GO GIRLS!!!!! Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com

You believe you could survive from 50 feet? I watched two friends die this year from a canopy collision at 50 feet. It was pretty much instantaneous lights out. Watch out for what you wish for. Chris Schindler D-19012 ATP/CFII www.DiverDriver.com