diverdriver

Here is the link to the NTSB preliminary report. It is very cursory and provides little detail. Check the link later down the road for updates. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20020806X01314&key=1 Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Oh, thanks for that info. I have that AC on my website. Just haven't gone to read it lately. And as I remember I said I wasn't sure if they needed a 337 or not. Chris

Rhonda......I'll make you this offer....when you think you're ready, we'll set up a date so I can fly with you and teach you what you need to know about flying jumpers. We'll do it right. Chris

Ok, maybe not a 337. But, yes, the proper placards must be affixed to the appropriate places. Also, when you remove the door you must make a note on the current weight and balance for the change. If not done, you are in violation of the FARs. Chris

My concern, of course, would be door size. The 152 is very small on door size. The 172 would have a much larger door area so would make it easier to get out. Plus, the 172 is on the list for flying with the door removed. Not sure about the 152. Also on the 152, I believe the brake line fluid runs in a tube right on the trailing edge of the strut. Either front or rear positions can be trouble if the person does not place their foot just perfectly on the strut. If they bend it, you may not have any brakes on landing or at least no brakes on that side. Again, you will need a bail out rig yourself incase there is a premature deployment over the tail. Land owners permission. Aircraft owner's/insurance company's permission. File a NOTAM at least a day before for jumping location, times, and altitudes. Do not deviate from that NOTAM. Chris

Please, guys. No more rumors. The people at the convention will post what they know when they know it. Too many rumors go around at every convention. EVERYONE swears that there were two or three fatalities at every convention. Even heard it at the one I was at when there were NO fatalities. So, I know people "hear" a lot but let's let the ones there post what they know or can dispute. Man I hope this is not true. Chris

Rhonda, Again, I really hope you do not use a 152 for jumping. I'm 6' and skinny as hell and without a rig I'm jammed in there. Getting the seat back enough to swing out and roll out the door would be tough. I know you want to believe in your husbands ability to get out without taking the plane down but I still strongly recommend not using a 152 (even if all else is approved) for jumping from. If you want to keep the cost of purchase down I would recommend getting a Cessna 172. They are approved for flight with the door off. I would have to look further to see if a 337 is required in the aircraft paperwork to actually take the door off and fly. I also want to reiterate that the insurance company may not like it at all. Most insurance companies I know require 500 TT and 50 in type to fly jumpers. I'm not sure if they would agree with insuring you for the sole purpose of flying only your husband. As far as renting a 182 from a local jump club I don't think that would work out either again because of the insurance thing. Sorry to be a wet blanket here. Just trying to give the most amount of information to keep you safe and legal. Chris

Ewwwwww......bad form......unecessary comment. Take that to PM if you want to. Chris

Ummmm.......I don't think ATA has Twin Otters flying for them. You might be thinking of their Saab 340s though. Chris

DiverDriver; eeneR; Kallend; Tigra; and many others are SDC regulars and post here. Send me a PM if you want anytime. Are you there now or are you coming for SummerFest? Let me know and I'll make a point to introduce myself. You can pretty much find our group on the red packing mats underneath the "Team Funnel" sign. Just ask for Chris (aka DiverDriver), Renee, Professor, or Maura and you will find us. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Hi Rhonda, Ok.......Cessna 152/150 jump plane = Bad Idea. Here's why: You will have just over the minimum hours required for the PPL. This is not a lot of experience to draw from. Do you plan to fly with a bail out rig? The doorway is so small and awkward that the possibility of a premature deployment is very high. If that happens then it would very likely go over the tail and take it off or damage it to a point beyond your experience level to deal with. "Should I stay or should I go now?" To do it legally you would need to get the airport owner's/land owner's permission to do skydives over it. Do not drop over a congested area. That can be defined by one farm house and barn. You have the FAR about creating a hazard by dropping objects. Go to my site and read the FARs on skydiving and the Advisory Circulars there. It should help educate you some things. Do you own the aircraft? You risk losing your insurance if they have not been notified that you want to use the plane for skydiving. If you're renting the plane then you risk the chance they will never rent to you again. But I would say the hazard to your life and your husbands is much greater trying to do this than any legal problem you could have. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Man....I just got home from SummerFest because of being ill and I read this. As a jump pilot this is the worst nightmare I can think of. I feel bad for the jumper killed. I feel very bad for Rod. As for those that don't believe this is a "skydiving" accident I will respectfully disagree with you. Jump aircraft are necessary for getting you to altitude to do what you want. They are a necessary evil. If something happens on a chair lift to take you to the top of the mountain is that not a "skiing" accident? I would say yes. I know people will disagree with this. I know I won't change your mind. Just adding my .02 to this thread. As a jump pilot, these hazards must be recognized to do our job. It may not be "skydiving related" to you. But it IS to me as a jump pilot. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

I'm so glad to hear that this record will be back on US soil. It's just not right having it anywhere else. And it will be broken. Those of you who have been on these 300 way attempts know what I'm talking about. The 300+ way is completely possible. Go slow, sheep dog. Dock, lock, and fly! Quote Jerry Bird (sp? sorry) If you don't want to go low....Don't fly there. And then track like hell! Good luck to you all. Need another pilot? Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

This is so wrong. This type of reporting is NOT good reporting. You said that a reporter digs around to find related material. Well this relationship has NOT been established. So having it in the artical infers that it will be true. To just say that the reporter "did not imply a direct relationship" is not right. Because it's in the article it implies a relationship automatically. We all hate reading "parachute failed to open". People on here get irate. They infer that the gear is at fault when the article should have read "jumper failed to perform actions to save their life." They think we are crazy because we continue to jump "unsafe" gear that malfunctioned for no explanation. We all hate that image. Infering that Roger's past has anything to do with this death is BAD reporting. Chris Schindler

Way to slam them. It was a rediculous grounding and they knew it. Glad it was only one weekend you all missed. Sad that you had to miss a weekend. Now......about that issue we talked about and this yo yos boss? How much are you gonna rub his nose in it? I'd make a bikini out of copies of the supplement and parade in front of him. Then moon him. No? Ok, it was a thought. Chris

You know I want one.......I'll call later with a fax number. So did Bombardier cough one up? Chris

[DiverDriver Safety Voice] Ok, Dude.....this is NOT a cool manuever. Your pilot can be seriously doing damage to the aircraft by doing those manuevers. The aircraft was not designed for, nor certified for acrobatic flight. With those types of manuevers he could be starving the engine of oil and causing damage that may not appear until down the road when the whole thing blows on takeoff. Then you'll be scratching your head why you have a smoking hole in the ground off the end of the runway with your buddies or you laying on the ground. Don't believe me? I'm being too conservative? Your pilot is better than I'm giving credit for? Just go HERE to see what I'm talking about. Read the accident reports for this year. [/DiverDriver Safety Voice] Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

LaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLa....Not listening....Not listening. LaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLa Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

www.DiverDriver.com has been updated with a link to the NASA ASRS reports for Jump Plane activity. It is updated every year with the most recent reports. They are submitted by pilots where no accident occured and are for educational purposes. The link from my site to the reports is at the top of the Accidents Page. If you are a current jump pilot or are thinking about flying skydivers I would highly recommend taking the time to read these reports (all of them). Learn from other peoples mistakes and experiences. These reports are submitted as a sort of "Get out of jail free" card. If the FAA down the road tries to start enforcement action against a pilot and they have a "NASA Report" on file then they are not supposed to pursue further action. Edited: I spake english gooder than me type it. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Hey...but I spot for out 10-way team....... Ohhhhhh....Heyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!

Yep.....Millenium in Kankakee just had a nice article written about them recently too. Skynights in East Troy, WI is well...different. You just have to go to see. I heard they have a new clubhouse actually that is really nice. I still have to go back and visit. And if you go there you have to say hi to Kermit and Julie for me. Chris

Excellent observation. Chris

Just cuz you're new and you are getting all kinds of acronyms, Skydive Chicago does not do AFF. AFF is only 7 levels. Skydive Chicago's program takes you to your "A" license. There is no "limbo" area. The program at Skydive Chicago is call AFP = Advanced Freefall Program. Chris

Go to www.USPA.org and you can go to a listing of all group members across the country. It is not a complete list of all DZs since they are not required to be a Group Member of USPA. But, it's a good start. Are you in the Chicago area or from someplace else? Chris

Yes, that is what you need to know. But in practice I can't say that I've seen that much from jumpers. And I have literally flown jumpers from one coast to the other. Either they don't spot (or look out the door at all) or they look out and are only able to spot for their ONE four-way. They don't think about the other 9 groups on board. Add in the fact that picking the EXACT point you are over the ground from 13K is not as easy as people are making it out to be and you have added in enough error to drop people off the airport or at least cause two passes when only one was really necessary. Chris