ManBird

I think the tandem rating isn't relevant, because it's a whole different scenario when you get a student/first time skydiver involved. I think more than jump numbers, currency and jump maturity are what matters. I think we're all in agreement there. If someone has that by 150 jumps, and it has happened, then I think they're entitled to give a wingsuit a try. Realistically, though, that doesn't happen. People usually get either hundreds of jumps or years in the sport before they are ready to try this stuff out. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

That doesn't really make sense to me, either. The bend at the hips and the angle at which you fall is what puts the intake into position. Bending the knees to present more of the top of the leg wing increases your horizontal profile, thereby inducing drag, and it also distorts the wing, thus limiting the airflow. Fly next to someone with your legs completely straight, in any suit. Then bend your knees. Your forward speed will slow down, and relative to your buddy, you'll really notice. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Like I said, "I have S1 flights, but not enough to know the best body position." Though a bend in the knees at all just doesn't make sense to me in terms of performance. It seems like it would make the half of the leg wing below the knees less effective. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I totally agree, but there are definitely some fundamentals that apply all around. What I detailed above, again, is what works for me. Some people get the best glide ratio comspensating a fast fall rate with fatser forward speed. Some people get their best glide ratio by "floating", and compensating their slow forward speed with their slower fall rate. Some people have popcorn on Thanksgiving. As far as knee position, yes, a bend in the knees will aid in stability. But if you are going for maximum performance, you shouldn't have a bend in the knees. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't be maxed out and stable at the same time. It just takes some practice. You can even fly maxed out with others, but get a LOT of solo practices in first. TALONSKY and I have done many maxed-out two ways... that sounds so wrong. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

The more I think about it, the more undecided I am on a wingsuit-specific rating required for wingsuit instruction. I was really all for it, but I gave it a lot of thought, weighed a lot of pros and cons, and am finding that I am liking the idea less and less. This is totally my own opinion and what I think has no bearing in the real world. This post will not affect the outcome of anything, so don't get too upset if and when you disagree. Let's try to keep the voicing of our disagreements civil and logical, as we have in other threads. That disclaimer out of the way, here's what I've been debating with myself: COACH RATING Technically, you do not need a coach rating to provide instruction to a licensed skydiver, and the purpose behind a coach rating, as I see it, is for post-AFF-level-7 students and new licensees. I do agree that a coach rating would provide skydiving instruction fundamentals. I'd like to get my rating for that benefit, but fear that if I get the rating, I will be required to do coach jumps with unlicensed students at my home DZ (as others have), which is not what I want to do in this sport right now. My view: The coach rating is highly recommended, but I don't think it should be required. BM-I RATING There is no instructional rating for any discipline in skydiving where unlicensed skydivers are not involved... even where different gear is involved (ie, skysurfing). A BM-I, specifically, is good for BirdMan because it helps people who are considering a purchase or have purchased a suit to get into it properly and safely, and ensures a standard. However, this shouldn't prevent or inhibit wingsuit instruction by those who are qualified but do not hold the rating. If that was the case, the rating would hurt, not help, the growth of wingsuit flying. If that was the case, we'd have at least a dozen or so birds I've taken that otherwise may have never flown. There are no BM-Is in the Northwest at all. Should this mean that no one gets to fly a wingsuit in the NW? Of course not. Also, if BirdMan requires a rating, but other manufacturers don't, this may cause people to buy from other manufacturers to avoid having to locate a BM-I. The BM-I program is, in my opinion, a way to ensure standards and quality of instruction for the initial use of suits manufactured by BirdMan, but it should not be required for BirdMan suit instruction. I think the rating and its purpose should be viewed as what it is and not be treated as other instructional ratings or a merit badge. I also believe that those who plan on providing instruction without a BM-I rating should consult BirdMan and, at the bare minimum, get their advice and respect their decision if they decide you should not provide instruction based on your qualifications (or lack thereof). Basically, find out if your instruction plans are a benefit or a violation. My view: I don't think the BM-I rating should be required for BirdMan specific instruction, but permission should be sought from BirdMan. GENERAL WINGSUIT RATING It sounds like the revision to the instruction program, if taken to the level of a wingsuit instruction rating in the governing bodies of skydiving, would potentially do more harm than good. While the instruction quality might be great, it would, at best, slow the sales and use of wingsuits. At worst, it would kill wingsuit flying. If you can't get instruction from someone that isn't rated, the amount of work it will take to find someone who is may not be worth the fulfillment of curiosity. If you are rated and everyone has to go to you for instruction, then say goodbye to a lot of fun jumps. Not all of us want to spend every weekend working in the sport, believe it or not. Instruction is fun for me when I'm not required to do it. My view: I am opposed to a general wingsuit rating, required or not. WINGSUIT SCHOOLS Chuck mentioned freefly schools; how they pop up without credentials and he doesn't like seeing that. Neither do I. I can see an official rating potentially promoting that activity rather than preventing it. I think a lot of people would use the rating responsibly, provide instruction, and really aim to get new birds in the air and get other birds to fly better. Inversely, I can see people getting the rating and setting up a school as a means to improve their image... a trophy to show off that only indicates skill or teaching ability to a certain level. On the other hand, without a rating, you could see the same thing happen, but frauds might be easier to point out if they have to rely purely on achievements and the program they've established, instead of three letters, a hyphen, and a badge. Wingsuit schools will be established. The variation in quality and integrity will be the same whether there is a required rating or not. A required rating would only inhibit the existence of these schools. Even if a wingsuit school was run by a money-hungry ego-tripper that sucks in the air but gives a good course on the ground, it would still benefit the growth of wingsuit flying. My view: A discipline-specific rating should not be required. Schools should establish credentials through achievements and a solid instruction program. CHARGING FOR INSTRUCTION (SCHOOL OR NOT) Personally, I don't charge for instruction. I even pay for my own slot (unless someone offers). If you do charge for instruction, this is something that should be worked out first with your drop zone, and then the wingsuit community in general. If your drop zone grants you permission and deems you qualified, and, if possible, other wingsuit flyers have also deemed you qualified, that seems like the right conditions to set up a school or provide coaching independently. I believe it was JP that has something set up with Perris' school. That's a good model to follow. My view: General acceptance and coordination with a drop zone should be the determining factors for paid instruction. Required ratings should be determined by the drop zone. IN GENERAL I'm interested in both the growth and safety of wingsuit flying. Over-regulating will inhibit growth. Under-regulating will inhibit safety. Many disciplines have shown up in skydiving and have grown with only a certain amount of general regulation and recommendations. I see no reason to exceed any amount regulation that there has been in the past. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I agree. Right now, no one with that low of jump numbers should be going up in a wingsuit. I was speaking to the potential of getting in a suit earlier. We've all observed newer jumpers safely (and sometimes dangerously) get into gear and flying styles that we never dreamed anyone would be able to handle with their jump numbers. I've only been in the sport for three years, but it already freaks me out to see someone with 150 jumps properly flying their Stiletto loaded at 1.3. This is possible through a combination of training and the "right" person. Some people just have better reaction time and the ability to stay calm and make good decisions under pressure. When those people are properly trained, they tend to get better at what they do in skydiving sooner. While no one is a natural at skydiving, some pick it up and perform more quickly than others. Send this type of person to the right canopy control school, and they'll fly their loaded Stiletto just fine at low jump numbers. I can see the same thing for wingsuits. This doesn't mean that jump number recommendations should come down (they haven't for canopies). It just means that some exceptions could be comfortably made. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I can only speak for the GTi and the S3. I know what works for me, and it seems to work for others, too. I have S1 flights, but not enough to know the best body position. In general, here's what I recommend: BASICS: - Keep wings fully open and extended. There is no reason for your wings to not be as taught as possible. - Present as much surface area to the ground as possible. - Present as little surface area to the horizon as possible. - You aren't moving 100% horizontally, so you should always have a very slight attack relative to the horizon (unless you are going for temporary slow speeds (stalling) by flaring your body). DETAILS: - Arm wings extended as far as possible. - Hands directly to your sides. When viewed from the side, your hands should be even with your back. Your hands should never drop below your torso. As Fordy put it to me once, "Have you ever seen a plane that has wings that droop?" I said, "Yes, the C-5", but that doesn't count. - Your elbows should go up as much as they possibly can without making the wing untaught. In general, your arms should slope at about a 12° angle with a very, very slight curve... your elbow being the peak of that curve. - On suits with front deflectors, your forearms should be rotated slightly forwards to feed air into the "nose" of the deflectors, thus pushing air over the wing. - Your hands should not extend past your wings. This induces horizontal drag. On the S1 or S3, grab the grippers or wingtips. On other suits, just fold your hands back. When viewed from the side, your hands should not drop below the wing. - Roll your shoulders forwards without changing the position of your hands. People tend to droop their arms when rolling their shoulders forwards. Don't do it. Roll your shoulders right to the point that they don't start going towards each other. As DW once put it (for wingsuits or general tracking), create a channel for the air without losing surface area. - Head should be down, but just enough to form a continuous shape in your overall profile. Too high prevents air from getting over your back, and can also cause you to put your chest out, thus distorting airflow both above and below you. Too low blocks the channel of air you are trying to create to get airflow underneath you and into your leg wing... it pretty much ruins your lift. If you're looking straight down, your head is in just about the right position. - Legs are completely straight and as wide as possible, keeping the leg wing fully taught. - Toes should be pointed, but not outside your legs. Your toes should point directly behind you. - Body is very, very slightly d-arched. Maybe have about a 9° - 12° angle to your body, with the "joint" of the angle being your hips. - As far as angle relative to the horizon goes, think of it as riding on your forehead and toes. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

My girlfriend bought me Léo Valentin's BirdMan for my birthday. My birthday is almost two months, but she couldn't wait to give it to me. Needless to say, I'm already halfway through it. There is far too much to comment on in this book right now, but here's a thought that stood out while reading it last night: It is very ironic that the original goal of putting on wings in freefall was to aid in stability and understand freefall aerodynamics when the issue now with using modern wings, at first, is instability. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I THINK so. That's a good idea. Either that, or hold the gripper with my thumb and ring and small fingers, while docking with the index and middle fingers. I'm going to try holding the grippers like that this weekend. The more I think about it, the more I realize that releasing the grippers entirely is not an option. There's just so you get out of holding the wings completely taught. I ordered my suit a little long in the arms (big in most areas, actually), so I can actually pull the wings almost as far out as my hand extends. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Off Road Skateboarding -- a nice downtime activity: http://www.deepart.org/sight/off_road_skateboarding.wmv "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

What? That's weak. I've farted bigger than that. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Flying relative to a fellow flocker, true. Flying relative to a buddy under canopy, not the case. I have to fly my arms exceptionally hard to make up for the slowing of my forward speed. I basically have to do 40 down while only doing about 60 - 65 forwards. I also have to have pencils in my stomach. We're thinking maybe a two-stack or having him just put his foot ON my hand, but it'd be nice to have an actual grip. I'll just lose like ten pounds. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Just grab a marker and change it to "The Instructicator III". They'll know not to mess with you. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Another great exercise is punching stuff, such as other people. The attached images give a pretty good idea of how to punch stuff for both men AND women. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Right. I think the fluctuation of currency values is a bigger factor. Right now, the US dollar is pretty weak compared to the euro. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Maybe I should drop my grippers long before the approach, or do the flight completely without grippers. One less thing to think about. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Word. That's what I thought. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I asked them what options I had outside of paying with a credit card, and they said that they preferred a wire payment. I don't think they were aware that they couldn't receive wires from the US, but they are now. On another interesting note, in some places, the post office is also the bank. Réunion Island is one of those places. When they sent me info on the bank, the namne was listed as "La Poste", which seemed really odd, but is correct. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Yeah I remember when I was in the witness relocation program way back when. I have a confession. ManBird isn't my real name. Tom, that's a good idea. I didn't even know that existed. Though, now that this has happened, I'm starting to sell myself on the idea of holding off. I've already got a $70 (both wire fees) slap in the face. God wants me under a Crossfire 2. I'm convinced. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

LIKE YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE! Like this one time... er... No, I'd probably spend all my money on getting subscriptions to porn mags for my friends and sending them to their workplaces. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I'm not a big debit card fan, either, because I'd be broke all the time. Maybe God wants me to buy a Crossfire 2 instead. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

No, you can pay by credit card. I don't use credit cards. I need to go to one of those banks that has a debit card thingy. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Not sure. Possibly. Thought maybe they'd make some sort of exception. I just got the WORST news. I'd wired money to Fly Your Body for my S-Fly. My bank just called and said that their bank doesn't accept wires from the United States! WTF?!?!! They returned the money and charged me wire fee! I don't use credit cards. I'm SOL now. Maybe they'll take a check. Sigh... "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

We're going for the wingsuit/canopy dock soon, and it'd be nice to grab his foot without budging at all. I have to be right in the sweet spot, on the edge of instability, to stay up with him, and dropping the gripper has been making me lose it. Let me rephrase that to "Docking in the sweet spot and the S3". ;) Edited to add: It's more critical than usual for me to maintain lift, as he can't compensate with his canopy without turning... which isn't an option with this stuff. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Any tips on docking without dropping the gripper? It sort of screws up my flight to do so. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click