ManBird

And testament to the differences in attitudes towards BASE in the US and abroad. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I know. Just kidding. I was stating my desire and anticipation to BASE jump by daylight through satire. SATIRE! "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Too true. Track and track and track and max track and max track. Someone who has 200 jumps and spent the last 25 in a max track would probably be a better wingsuit candidate than someone with 500 jumps that's never dedicated a freefall to tracking. If you want to fly a wingsuit at 200 jumps, work on getting a stable max track. Like Ed said, you should be able to deploy symmetrically (and therefore stable) without reaching for the risers. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

There's a Day BASE? I need a trip to the tater S... "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Backing up both Kevin and Glen in saying that it is great and that you should, no MUST, have a dedicated bridle. Using it is fast as f*¢k... no fumbling with the wing. Just a warning, make sure your PC isn't "bunched up" or lumpy in the pouch. The PC pack job should be thin and consistent, and only the top skin (no mesh) should be exposed to the pouch. Because there is no spandex in the pouch, an improperly packed PC can become "sticky", and result is a hard pull or an "impossipull" (PC won't come out at all), both of which I have experienced. I don't use the pouch right now, but will again once I have some new BASE gear and am balls-to-the-wall serious about taking a wingsuit BASE vacation. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I'm all over it. I'll bring an extra wingsuit, as well, in case anyone wants to go up on there first flight. I was home sick yesterday and managed to repair a Japanese PC9 that I bought for dirt cheap off of eBay. So, I basically have a "pond camera" now (my main one is a PC105). I'd prefer to keep it out of the water, but I'm willing to lend it to those who want to film their pond swoops without risking their camera. I don't have lenses for it, though, so bring your 37mm wide angles. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

It's so you can reach up and throw the pilot chute off if it ends up over the nose. j/k. Yeah, it's nutty how the canopy seems to be just right on top. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I've wondered if you actually get stronger or just figure it out. Based on what I've heard Jari say, I believe it's the latter. After flying the S3 for a bit, you find that you can do big, fat flights fairly consistently without burning your arms off. There's this sort of point where your body and the suit come to an agreement, and you just go. Even then, you still start to taper off for the last couple thousand feet on that fourth or fifth flight of the day. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Oh, man. That's just a crime. I don't really even care for it, but there's no way I'd leave it out my training. You'd better get with a BM-I and do the whole FFC all over again. Pay extra for video, too. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

No, that IS why he got a CC. :) "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I thought about it a bit more this weekend. I think that right now we're in this place where some procedures that occur before flight aren't set in stone, but don't need to be. When we became BM-Is, we weren't really taught what to teach in regards to bailout procedures or boarding aircraft with wingsuit-incompatible seatbelts. In this fairly new and definitely growing form of skydiving, I find that it's our job to determine what to teach students in regards to issues that weren't considered when we became BM-Is. I don't have the jumps or time in the sport that a lot of you do, so I do look to the more experienced jumpers that were part of addressing safety issues in disciplines. I think the PC in tow emergency procedures is a good parallel to our current debate. You've got advantages and disadvantages to either method. The recommendation is to pick one and stick with it. I think we can still narrow down the process that happens between donning the suit and exiting the aircraft to maybe two or three options. I don't think everyone will see eye-to-eye on one process, and we will all have very good reasons to back what we choose. Rather than fight about who's right, I think the best thing to do is to fully understand and accept what options are available and what their advantages and disadvantages are. With regards to teaching, should we provide all options to a student and let them choose one or just teach them what we think is right? Giving them options might confuse or overwhelm them, but only teaching one process may be a major disservice if they determine that they don't like your method upon the discovery of others. Sincerely, Undecided Just a quick comment on this. I do teach students how to modify their post-canopy opening procedures in this scenario. I just take what I teach them to do in the event of a reserve ride, and apply it to a bailout -- just free your arms and pull the LQRS. If there's no LQRS I recommend to waddle on landing and be ready to PLF. Students tend to burn a lot of altitude unzipping their legs. Focus on flying the canopy and landing safely. Basically, the BASE style post-canopy opening procedures with the addition of pulling the LQRS. I sense another debate coming on. When is this thread gonna get moved? (Edit) Thanks! "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

So I have to ask, were you guys zipped up and ready to go, or did you have to do a couple last minute things (with the exception of helmet and goggles)? "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

There are just as many security holes, if not more, in all the Linux variations. You just don't hear about them as much because it isn't used by 90% of the planet like Windows is. At the last 2600 meeting we had here in Portland, we had a wireless hack meet. It was 4 Linux (One RedHat, one Mandrake, two FreeBSD) machines vs 4 Windows (three XP and one 2000) machines. All 4 Linux machines were compromised (files were placed on the machine), and none of the Windows machines were accessed. Two of the Linux machines were hacked by multiple Windows machines. With either OS, you do have to know quite a bit about how it works to truly protect it. With Windows, there's just less work that needs to be done. There are some fundamental holes in Linux that make easily hackable (primarily the disconnect between file system security and security of third-party compenents and/or web services). Inconsistency is the nature of open source. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Just being flip in that first remark. Here... I live in Portland blah blah ;) Is what I meant. I disagree with your advice and my opinion is fact. Just kidding. This is the point where we agree to disagree and go on living. Kind of like the cutaway a PC in tow discussion (don't actually comment). I do agree that this thread, at least the last portion, should be moved over to the wingsuit forum. There are a lot of valid points from every side that might get missed in here. I'm happy with the fact that there is at least some proactive discussion regarding these matters. What's important is that we at least look busy. ;) "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

OK, this is just trying to insult me here. I live in Portland, Oregon. What do think I do half of the year? The exit and deployment were stable. The wing inflated and rolled me AFTER the PC had left my hand. I've never experienced uncontrollable instability like that. No, because you still control the leading edge and therefore the direction the wing is flying. The wing can't "get away from you". You really shouldn't be cutting away only one wing either (while in freefall). I disagree. I believe that there is more potential for instability with wings unzipped than zipped, at any experience level. And a more experienced wingsuit flyer should have no problem smoothly exiting and deploying. Edited to add: As a side note, when I took the BM-I course at Eloy in December, the most accepted mode of wing in the plane was halfway zipped. This gives control of the area that is likely to inadvertently pressurize (elbow to shoulder), without presenting enough wing to introduce instability or hide the PC. I think this is acceptable, as well, but prefer a suit that is ready to fly. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

No. It's attached on one side, not at one point, and it's the wrong side (which is why we it's not recommended to unzip your wings in freefall, and why blowouts are bad). Cutting the wings away from the body in flight is OK because you still control the leading edge. If you don't control the leading edge and the wing inflates enough to take shape, it will fly in the direction it is aiming at the time. When this happens asymmetrically (one wing inflated, one wing not), it's more than enough to flip you over or spin you. If your wings don't pressurize at all, or if they both pressurize equally (unlikely), then you're good to go. I'd say the risk of major instability is high enough to want to avoid this method. Think of what would happen on a plane if its vertical stabilizer was positioned two feet to the left, and there wasn't one on the right to counter the offset. Even if it's straight up and down, the plane is not going to fly straight. That's essentially what's happening when you have one inflated wing and one lame wing flying behind you. The leg wing would be less of an issue, because it'd most likely inflate symmetrically (unless it's being worn on one leg). A friend of mine did, in fact, have to bailout low while wearing a wingsuit. He was fully suited and everything went just fine. If you leave one zipper open, you have just as much chance (and maybe even a little more) of forgetting it as forgetting your leg straps, but it's the lesser of two evils, and it gives others the opportunity to notice both your leg straps and the zipper status. It allows for seatbelt compatibility on many aircraft. It also makes S&TAs and DZOs comfy that they can check your leg straps in a glance, especially in light of this incident. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages. I don't think you or I will ever forget our legstraps, and there's no need to have others checking us out every step of the way. In over 370 wingsuit flights, I've paid special attention to my legstraps. But what about the guy who comes along on his first or second solo flight, more concerned with fall rate than rigging while putting on the suit, when I'm not around? By having set an example, someone else can give him a thorough gear check. It's the same reason why no one should route their chest strap around the friction adapter in a way that hides silver. It might work, but it starts to make a misrouted chest strap look normal to the impressionable and quiet jumper. I'm not saying "hey, do this!". There are some outstanding safety issues with wingsuit flying that could and should be addressed. I'm just trying to offer the best solution I can. I'm open and hoping to hear a better one. If mistakes can be corrected by a third-party, we should let them. I will argue, however, that exiting with your wings unzipped is unsafe and only presents addressed problems to which we really don't need to revert. All this time we've been trying to avoid blowouts because of the major instability issues. It surprises me to see what is essentially a total blowout recommended as a safe way to exit. No one should be forgetting their leg straps. The vast majority of people won't. But this problem has happened twice. What was the solution the first time around? "Check your leg straps!" I tell that to all my students and tell them of the first guy that did it. It happened again. If we ignore it again, let's hope BirdMan suits are 3 for 3 in saving asses. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I, personally, don't want the front zippers open at any time I may need to exit quickly. I don't attach my booties and zip up my legs/arms until nearing jumprun....definitely not when I board as I see some people do. I've done a hop&pop with my suit on, but nothing zipped up but the front double zipper - just to see what it would be like if I have to get out low with my suit on. With the double zipper wide open, there's a chance that I'd get air into the suit on one side, and possibly spin me or make me a little unstable....which is the last thing I want during an emergency exit. Mike The suit should be entirely zipped up when exiting. I tried the same experiment. My left wing unfurled, inflated, and caused me to roll over... after I'd deployed. I ended up with my right risers under my right arm, which turned into an uber-mal. Chopped it low and lived, obviously. I now zip everything up upon boarding, though I will now leave one body zipper undone, so that I may check my leg straps. If the body is unzipped on exit, it really wouldn't do much harm. People have exited with one or both zippers halfway undone... just forgot to close up. It affects performance a bit, but doesn't cause instability. Having WINGS unzipped could easily result in what I already experienced. Not zipping up your wings and legs is not what I'd consider being ready for an emergency exit. It worked out well for you that one time. Think it'd go as well the next ten times? Without a leading edge, you have no control over your wings. Without control of your wings, it's up to the mood God is in to determine whether your wings will wreck you or not. I've done quite a few hop and pops with my wingsuit since, all fully zipped up, and they went great. If your concern is not having enough time to unzip wings or deploy, then don't be concerned. Deploying is as easy as any other time, of course. You can at least undo your arms. Pull the LQRS if you have it. Otherwise, just landed with the legs zipped in. I've done it a dozen times and only stumbled once (downwind, uninjured). Better than entangling with your canopy (believe me). You aren't getting out under 1,000 feet, right? It takes one - two seconds to zip up the body. Unbuckle, zip up, done. Which would you rather leave with? Your leg straps off or your suit unzipped? I stand firmly by my belief that there is no compromise on the wingsuit pilot's part to leave a zipper open until s/he unbuckles. It may be slightly inconvenient, but deploying without legstraps seems a hell of a lot more inconvenient. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Just recently came across this article: http://www.basejump.org/discus/messages/1/21.html?1063200948 It speaks more specifically to the Ace and Blackjack, but eludes to some problems common across all gear. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Not only was I slow, but I bitched and moaned about it the whole time. I'm so out of shape. I need better technique. I'd have it for like twenty rungs, and then I'd start thinking about those ducks by the pool. They swim in this puddle right next to the pool, and I'm like, "Dude! There's a POOL right there! Why did you go for the puddle?". "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Does site naming go for this forum, too? Popular spots, but still. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

You're all over it. 'Twas the plan. Thanks for the tips. I'm think that by the time I get across the pond, I might have put enough together for the trip, a container, and a new canopy. I really like BR, and I really like the Flik Vtec. Maybe I should just get a second, slider-up/terminal rig this summer. I'd get some use out of it... just not much. Last question then -- smaller canopy -- how small? Looks as though the WS Extreme is happy with a 200 or 220. I imagine I'd be taking something like that on many skydives in a huge, borrowed rig before being required to touch down between rocks. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

2 slots. BM-I and student. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

A good thread that covers this topic: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=728298;search_string=mods; "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Just wondering if anyone out there has a Pilot loaded at 1.6:1 or higher and what your thoughts are. I currently jump a Sabre 2 107 near its recommend max WL and I'm looking at a Pilot 104 for my main in a second rig. It sounds like it has a similar performance range to the Sabre 2... very forgiving at any WL, but a swoop monster near the recommended max. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Amen, brother Glen. A buddy of mine that bought a GTi last year, and really just now started to get into it. He plans to BASE his GTi. He was concerned with the lack of performance, but didn't really want to have to get the S3 because of potential deployment issues (especially in a BASE environment). After a month or so of jumping together every weekend (sort of fun jumping with a little debrief as opposed to formal coaching) he's now getting all the performance he wanted and then some. His no-wind glide ratio went from 1.1:1 to 1.6:1 in about twenty jumps (1.6:1 is the upper/top end of the glide envelope for a GTi). In also learning to leverage the wind, he's getting over a 2:1 glide ratio (just over 4 miles from 13K). He's flying the thing really damn well these days. The little tweaks recommended on each jump eventually made a huge difference, and he's now very happy with his GTi. If he does get the S3, he'll fly it much better than he would have if he decided to buy it before figuring out his GTi. Get with an experienced BM-I or coach. People are always amazed to find out all that they've been doing wrong, and the odd things that you have to do to max out a suit. The moral of the story is: Learn to fly the piss out of what you have before even thinking of moving up. This also sounds like the canopy lecture, doesn't it? PS I wouldn't say the GTi is 90% of the performance of the S3. Maybe in fall rate, but not forward speed. The only real comparison is with yourself. I have about the same number of jumps in the GTi as the S3 (~190 and ~180 respectively). With a GTi, I can get my average within 3 - 5 MPH of my S3 average, but when it comes to forward speed, the S3 is drastically faster. My GTi best forward speed is about 60% - 65% of my best S3 forward speed. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click