chachi

i went from a xfire, to a fx very briefly (100 jumps?), to a vx for about 400 and now a jvx. i found the transition between canopies to be effortless in so far as the "feel" with a lot of the charateristics from opening, to riser preassure, to rear risers feel to be quite similiar.

you should read profiles a little more if you are going to "put me in my newbie place." stop taking things posted on the internet so serious. my comments talk about the general cost of training and do not in any way take shots at your dz. i over all think training should not be "cheap" as this sport is about as serious as life and death can get and the continuation of the sport is not "cheap" in any way after. reducing the involvement of this sport to the lowest possible cost is not a benefit for the sport as a whole and while it can be a good benefit to the odd club and its members it is not the bench mark that we want to strive for.

i think you need to breathe, this is of course just the internet. my comments were based on a business angle. that is all. clubs have different parameters. as for calling you cheap, i did nothing of the sort. i just think that while some people feel that training and access should be cheaper across the board i disagree. i think instructors should be paid their worth. i think student gear should be top quality, not antiquated. this "typically" comes at a premium and is never attainable by being the cheapest. i do not personally know all the situations of your dropzone, just made a couple of comments.

first question is how can you give props to someone that runs a business at a loss. its silly and if he continues to do so he will close the doors one day. another thought. why do we want cheap instruction? it cheapens the sport. we should charge reasonable amounts to provide excellent instruction, top quality student gear, insurance and facilities. skydiving is an expensive sport to maintain. why get people into it for cheap?

definitely safer to use your riser to gain speed and the most common and agreed upon technique. when you use a toggle, the pendelum action takes you way away from being under the canopy. the term PLF has been applied to many people cratering this way. parachute landed first. when you use a riser and bail on the turn due to a poor setup and being low you are almost instantly under the canopy and brakes will in most cases save you. when you use a toggle and bail you need to catch up to the canopy first before you brakes will make a difference.

Sorry, but I consider that bullshit. I've said this a million times, and I'll say it again; landing a BASE canopy on rear risers is the easiest thing on the world. Anybody who biffs in at the Perrine while flaring with rear risers is a fucking tool and shouldn't have jumped in the first place. Btw, I'm a shitty pilot. haha. 105 basejumps and 287 skydives and he's a fucking expert. or is that 287 jumps total?

if her doctor cleared her to skydive then he is probably the best to judge her competency. the problem with telling people (as you might as well have done after outing her on these boards) is that people are scared of the unknown. if she has an AAD then she is of little risk to herself and no more risk than brain locking idiots or dive bombing idiots that we already have to deal with. i hope that the detectives that already know you and who is new at your dz don't read this post and she is able to continue to experience skydiving as she always has. you should also tell her that if she "confides" in any more people it will probably be all over any how.

some people get it much earlier than others. take the advice that you get on the internet with a grain of salt. it will come from people with different perspectives and motives. while some are genuinely interested in your safety others will want to validate their own abilities or lack there of. you sound like you are heads up, knowledgeable, able to assess your own risks. listen to your instructors and the ones that know your flying skills most and take the added posts in here as more information for you to make good decisions. if you are going to downsize aggresively in this sport you should get coaching, make lots of hop 'n pops and high pulls working on specific canopy skills each time. billvons checklist is something i recommend but it is unrealistic to check it off at 20 jumps or even 50 so you need to find a good canopy for at least a season to work on said checklist with. no one on the internet knows you, or your skill level so i recommend listening to your instructors, coaches, and mentors in this sport when it comes to canopy safety.

just wondering what this has to do with my post. my original response was only to point out that the crossfire and the neos are both old canopies that have been upgraded. what does the glx ( a fully braced canopy) have to do with this convo?

Yes, that was a bit of a ramble, but I will tell you that there is NO non-braced canopy that will outperform any braced canopy when flown by the same pilot. I would take that Neos anyday over the Sail Crossfire if I had a spot for one in my quiver. Just my opinion as a guy that has been doing this swooping thing for a while. _________________________________________________ you are probably correct which makes me wonder why a pilot doesn't just choose a fully braced canopy instead of going half way. _________________________________________________ Jim talks a bunch of trash about the Neos as being "failed technology", but anyone with any memory capacity left will remember him highly praising the canopy when he was actually flying it. That GLS/GLX/whatever, I mean. We are talking revisionist history here. _________________________________________________ actually i was replying to the OP that called the cross fire old technology being recycled and was simply pointing out that the NEOS is recycled and improved as well. __________________________________________________

the neos is actually the old recycled technology from 5 years ago. what i don't get is why not jump a fully cross braced canopy if you are going to half cross brace it do it fully where the weight would be better distributed and be more rigid. the gls xf is a hybrid canopy. you get a great intermediate swoop canopy with hma, sail, and a hybrid nose so that you can launch it in no wind. an awesome canopy for sure. ps. what the eff is heading control stability?

i use a firefly freely camera suit with the medium wing. i have shot competitive 4 and 8 way (US nationals), tandem, big way records (70 +), and everything in the middle. works amazing and i swoop too. it holds up to anything.

"I agree there. And if everyone opens at an approximately simillar altitude, you will get "natural" vertical separation - after 30 seconds, the larger canopies will be higher and the smaller canopies will be lower even if no one does anything at all. That helps, and is often sufficient. If it's not, the first people can help by getting down faster and the last people can help out by floating a bit. This gives more overall vertical separation." you talk like people don't like to go playing around under their canopies which will ruin any natural separation. people usually find there own space, play a bit, and then go looking to jam into a pattern all at the same time. "the smart thing to do (IMO) is to increase that separation, not try to reverse it" it is not reversing things if i open last on an otter load and decide the best course of action is to wait until the 15-18 people that are already lower than me to land. i can hang in brakes forever. "Just as swooper A might not see the big canopy above him because he's below it and trying to float upwards." you can't float upwards. you are right to say that the blind spot is above so if anyone is above me then i am in the right of way situation. "Open, get into a pattern, and ride front risers the whole way down." riding fronts all the way down to appease you is not why i pay to skydive. i will say it one more time. you are talking about the perfect situation if everyone on an otter load opened at the exact same moment. real life is ALWAYS different on every single load i have ever flown. people don't just fly their stilletto in a docile manner that "naturally" has a heavier loaded canopy sinking more. across an entire otter load there may be as much as a minute between the openings of all canopies. having a silly rule that says i should ride my fronts down hurries my setup, causes potential for mistakes, and in my opinion is more dangerous than simply making good decisions by assessing the situation on every single load and separating myslf in a safe manner before performing any maneuver. it is my lift ticket, not yours. i will not rush, hurry, or proceed faster than i feel safe doing in any situation to fit into your magical fairy zone where all canopies open and do nothing which will make vertical separation happen naturally.

"Yes. Again, assuming similar pull altitudes (which is pretty common) it's safer for the faster canopies to "rush down" and land first." while i appreciate your thoughts and see how from your own perspective this is the "way" it should be how about you put yourself into my shoes for a minute. my one point will be that it is safest if everyone takes a look around on opening and separates themselves vertically and horizontally and gets into a pattern. as for smaller loaded canopies "rushing" into anything causes big potential for error. there is a way for varying size canopies to fly together but forcing people into a specific slot creates a precedent. precedent forces people to put themselves into bad spots (like NEEDING to turn into the wind). on one hand people will trash swoopers for being reckless and at the same time think it is smart for us to rush and land first. maybe that is why swooper A doesn't see stilletto B that spiralled lower because he thinks he should always be first down? open, look around, stow slider, assess entire load, find vertical and horizontal space to fly in while getting into pattern, approach my setup, clear all air space, make turn with head on swivel is my process. no one, at any dropzone is going to force me to rush into anything. if i plow someone, regardless of most situations i am going to be the one they blame because i was the swooper. therefore i will make a responsible decision as to at which point i will land which varies on every single load.

semantics. while people have been doing it for 20 years jim has refined it, produced canopies specifically for it, and turned it into a "sport." jim will be the first to give guys like bj worth etc... the rights for the idea. as for creating a marketable sport around it no one can deny jim invented it.

sorry, i added to my post....

my suggestion, go to www.canopypiloting.com and ask the guy that has basically invented the sport.

just wanted to add to this post. i find in most cases it is the average guy under his sabre 135 that opens at 2500', doesn't fly a predictable patten, spirals to be the first down, etc..... if i choose to wait my time, have clear airspace (if in a mixed landing area) before i initiate a high performance landing i think i am not only looking out for the safety of others but also choosing not to put myself in a rushed position where i can be the one to make the huge error. i think a view of the entire landing area from a high vantage point gives me a clearer picture than rushing to get out of peoples way in many cases.

i honestly don't understand this comment. if i choose to hang in brakes and land last in clear airspace after all the guys rushed for the gates why shouldn't i?

yeah dude.

i thought i would clear things up on this. originally when i ordered my VX from simon at icarus i made a deal with him to include a rds system in the price. simon agreed but told me it would be a few weeks until he could have it shipped as he knew that mel was away. simon then began ducking my calls and turning into the sales rep i had heard about. i proceeded to contact other dealers and ended up talking with nick in california. nick was amazing and got some action going but some how this slider got out to me. what mistake happened there i don't know. i am looking forward to my new one arriving soon. the only problem on the original was the cables were a little too short and the housing for the cables a little too loose which caused the cables to come out during packing. while the slider was coming down a cable got caught over a cascade and held the slider up. -rob

i "think" the canopy design is identical with maybe slider and line set adjustments but you may want to wait for others may have more information.

holy eff, you're quite the little busy bee typist. :P i am going to answer both your comment because it really goes to what i am speaking on. what about all the pilots that learn much faster than you? where do they fit in? i bet it would shock you to know my progression rate. i can't honestly say that i have noticed your particular advice and what you offered in that post seemed fine. however, your opinion to my post is very much like you have priveledged information and if someone phrases a question wrong or you think they are not up to snuff then all they should get is a warning and not the "goods" my entire point to this thread was to maybe offer less judgement and as much useful information or "educate" as much as possible. that is what will keep people safer, and learning faster.

Ding, we have a winner! Basically people have been told time and time again that their choices are wrong by the people around them at their DZ. Then they come here and want support. That's BS and will get someone hurt. If someone is ready for a HP canopy, especially if they're coming from another HP canopy (as it was in this last case) then they shouldn't need advice on how a canopy turns or flares. They should be able to do some altitude clear and pulls and figure the canopy out doing their own drill dives to start learning the canopy. Ian, I bet you have a set of drills you do with a new canopy to figure out the different flight characteristics of a new canopy, right? I know I do and that in a couple of jumps I can have a pretty good idea of what I can and can't do with a canopy (in terms of flare, stalls, risers, harness). Not to say I've got the canopy dialed in by any stretch of the imagination, but I can start working on that safely. an interesting thought pattern aggiedave. so you think in a sport where people pay 10's of thousands of dollars to particpate that you should be the judge of who should and shouldn't receive good helpful information? get it straight, most aren't looking for your approval to make them feel good about their decisions they are looking for the information to actually get better, and now to prove you wrong. now i consider myself a competent xbrace pilot dave and i thought to ask someone about the the characteristics about the canopy i was getting myself into. does that make me poorly skilled and mean i should have stuck to my vx94 instead of getting a jvx87? do you think i should have "known" exactly what to expect? the previous poster was not asking about how the canopy turned and flared he wanted the entire performance envelope and maybe some good drills to get better. see the difference? in any case, how should he "know" things. we as humans "learn" skills. what i am trying to say is that you are not in a position to judge skill over the internet. fuck, you all would have freaked out at my progression and i would have made the same comment our poster did which was that he had already made a decision and wasn't looking for your permission. just maybe some help to learn all he can and grow and survive. while my post may seem biting aggie, i am not being flippant with you. i am just trying to say that maybe we need to evaluate what people are asking us and phrase our responses to be as helpful as possible if we really do have everyones "best" interests at heart.

thanks for the comments ian. while i think that most people have everyones "best" interest at heart i think the most beneficial thing would be to stick to what people are asking if you want to be helpful. "do you think i should do this" is a great place to offer your opinion on skill levels, or just things to keep in mind. "how can i best transition to this canopy" is not a good place to speculate on skill level. when we can't discern where to give information and where to give advice we blur the lines of communication for people and it turns into a free for all. especially when the advice / information lines are already muddled when at 1000 jumps some people are a great source of canopy information and at 800 jumps others can barely follow a pattern and may have a poor perspective. i am not trying to stop people from soliciting information online. not ever. i have learned plenty by knowing where to go online for good information on the specific thing i have a question about. is that only because i have proved myself under a xbrace that i don't have to wade through the crap? or because i know people? i would like it to be made easier for people to get the useful inofrmation for their skill level without being told no. being told no in this sport doesn't work so maybe we should all stcik to what people are looking for and we will all benefit.