rehmwa

Please...... My grandfather smoked 3 packs a day until he died at 65, but he never got lung cancer. no, he probably gave it to 3 or 4 people around him, plus aggravated 100 people with asthma, and gave headaches and migraines to thousands more - but, that's ok. HE was fine. now that I think about it, much likely the same result as reading posts on speaker's corner for the same interval ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

don't be silly, we aren't going to ban cars. anyone that can do the pullups is strong enough to control their steering and avoid most accidents, sheeeesh ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Dude - it won't hurt, and it MIGHT help. and we can save just one life....... PLUS everyone needs to be healthier, so pullups might just save a few lives and reduce the drain on healthcare costs overall. Plus, think of the boost to the fitness industry when everyone needs to purchase home pullup bars. we can give 'free' ones to those in financial need too - just raise a couple taxes on bigwigs that exploit the workers anyway. they can afford it. it's a freakin' win win win scenario now that's what I call forward thinking ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Wendy and DanG have come closest to it, I think. 1 - Animals don't have rights. 2 - Laws and rights are not the same thing. 3 - And "Rights" by gov decree or as a protection, vs 4 - a natural concepts of 'rights' in terms of social conscience and nature - are VERY MUCH different things. I'm going more from the idea of rights as the last item. (the rest is goofy and fluid, and not the moral discussion needed. the last concept drives the existence/discussion of the first three, needed or not, abused or not. Which are tangential discussions. YMMV, but I think these are not fundamental, except for those that think legalese is everything and human nature is not something tangible.) Anyway Rights are a social construct, they go two ways, and for us, it's an expectation of behavior that we have for each other. Much of the time, it's an expectation that we are better, or can be better, people than we really are. But it's a two way street. We do it for each other. Animals don't enter into that, they don't have any contract to reciprocate. What we have, is a social contract amongst people that we try to hold 'each other' to. about expectations on how we treat animals. So it's not 'rights' - that's a crappy anthromorphism to make it a feelings thing. But, it is a code of conduct that we want to live by. We should do it with or without any laws to press it. The laws apply to the outlier elements of society - that's not rights as much as protection. It's a really great concept to explore and would be fun to discuss (anywhere but here really) DanG has it right - if people have a different basic understanding of what they consider a "right" - then arguing over what it's called is a pointless exercise in frustration - and even worse, a fire drill of purposefully ignoring what the other person is means in order to just bash them. Even if it's actually something other than a 'right', in practice, it's what a lot of people call it (for various reasons) - and I understand what they mean and I'm ok with the term. Deep in that, though, I do have a fundamental issue with using the term 'rights', but only when it's purposefully abused to overdrive the issue. The rest of the time, I don't care, I get it. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

well crap - I pretty much align with this whole post and have nothing witty or snarky to add sorry ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Of course they do. Don't be silly. WE have a certain ethical responsibility in how we treat animals though. it's not animal rights, it's more about us and our expectations of our own behavior WE have a certain ethical responsibility in how we treat other humans though. pretty much the definition of rights. it's about an expectation from others on how their lives should be respected the parallel is VERY close though so it really comes down to a subjective semantic discussion. or a degree of how one anthropomorphizes animals (which I find silly, and actually a bit damaging really, and sometimes outright stupid) so it's a moot point at best, or a contrived conflict point at worse so if someone wants to call it "animal rights", I understand what they mean. unless they are a nutjob that prioritizes another species over their own, then they are trying to twist a term in order to make a parallel that I don't agree with one bit ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

and it should have its own logo (couldn't find one with the three monkeys all shouting at the same time, poking each other with sticks and throwing poop at each other - while covering their ears and eyes....) A picture of the GOP debate would do. So which character are you? Trump? No ... Bush? Noooo. Ah yes, Dr. Carson. what are you, the narrator? it was a perfect tongue in cheek comment to my post - he actually took the bullet (made himself the butt of the joke) for sake of a wry balanced post in response to mine - I'm impressed. no way it wasn't on purpose I suspect if he saw his bank account and it said his balance was $123457, he'd immediately withdraw a single dollar. I would. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

bizarro world - clearly if you are State's Rights advocate you must hate black people (It's the default talking point - automatic to put it out there. I don't make the rules.) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

and it should have its own logo (couldn't find one with the three monkeys all shouting at the same time, poking each other with sticks and throwing poop at each other - while covering their ears and eyes....) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

sounds like another 'religion of peace' perversion of belief systems to rationalize horrible behavior is found frequently in religion, politics, social agendas, etc at least in this case, this particular group will be shut down and the sickos that did the deed will be put to justice (and not by some vigilante self serving revenge squad that is just as bad as the sickos) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Ignoring the perfect irony in the series..... This is more of an aside, but: In terms of psychotically blatant oxymorons, "extra-judicial justice" is more than a little frightening and the best example so far I've seen of how so many people have no clue whatsoever in terms of what 'justice' really is. FJ - Go see someone. If it doesn't help you, at least that counselor can learn something and maybe write a research paper that would help others someday. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

on all the talk stations for my drive in this morning around here - the 3 right wing and the 2 lefty, if you delete the blind coolaid drinkers from both sides and only listen to people talking in a normal tone of voice........your conclusion is pretty much the consensus ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

She's doing much better. Not ONCE during the entire debate did she let any secret or confidential information loose. As a bonus - we can also note that never in the debate was she observed to take a bribe. baby steps people - we're all human actually none of the 5 were observed in this behavior. Not bad for 5 old white career politicians ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

It's so easy to spot, that one could, as an option, ignore the clear sarcasm and attempt at humor, and obtusely and robotically use it directly to set up strawmen, or issue veiled PAs or character jabs. I'm not saying that happens here, just that it's an option if one chooses. Insults are a lot more fun, anyway, than two way debate and discussion. You mean like you are doing right now..... maybe.... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

which includes St Louis then ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

20% of the left and 20% of the right disagree with you. With 5% of each really angry you say that at all and they want to take away your speech that leaves 60% of us on your side ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

I understand where you think that, but it's really a perspective thing. I'm reversed in the opinion - both sides have a LOT of issues that were best left to individual choices and responsibility. Left disregards economic choice in their attempt to social engineer (freedom at another's expense is very common). The right disregards personal choice when it conflicts with the churchie fringe. The left intrudes in a LOT more little areas (it's insidious and ratcheting). The right intrudes on fewer, but BIGGER and personal issues (it's emotional and very conflictive). The left needs to mellow their approach and tie personal choice and freedom to individual responsibility. If they do that, I move to their camp. The right needs to get out of the social business and go full fiscal - they do that, I join their camp. Right now, my tent is on a completely different campground than they share. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

As always, we're good.. here's my thing - the "original Tea Party" was about personal liberties and fiscal prudence. TODAY's "Tea Party" after the co-opt is just the same old social right and is meaningless. It's the whole point of my initial post. So saying that Cruz or Rubio rode the "Tea Party wave", I'd submit they didn't ride the initial intent. They just are riding the social right - which they'd get regardless if the New and Crappy Rep version of today's Tea Party existed or not. It's pretty much what co-opted means. Which we all seem to agree on. the term is pointless and any effort needs a completely unrelated label It seems the general sentiment of personal freedoms and fiscal prudence is popular. But we don't have anyone that stands for it yet. And the fringies hate it because it weakens the power they get by handing out favors to (industries, demographics, etc etc etc) Face it - 1 - It's completely at odds with the left philosophy 2 - It's what the right is (IMO on purpose misleading) CLAIMING to be but deep down FAILs to be. Now, I can expect the cool aid drinkers from both sides argue how 'their party' meets the intent and the other party is pure evil.... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Really? the only true Libertarian that remained was Ron Paul - I didn't find him to be very churchy at all. But he's gone. none of the 'candidates' are claiming Tea Party status are they? I thought they are were just Reps. so to answer the question - because the entrenched left and right wing succeeded in a major co-opt I'll simplify for the others: This is why we need the 'original' effort re-started under an entirely new brand name, and as Billvon notes, the new party needs to stick to its guns - and the public needs to back them up much more actively. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

??? read it again I was talking about the Pea Tardy Glibs - what is this "Tea Party" you speak of.......? If - hypothetically - I was referring to the Tea Party takeover...... I would state that my argument is EXACTLY what they DID do. (However, I could see your misread if you only read the second half that spoke to a backup position of 'portraying' them as co-opted - but the left handled that aspect at the start before the co-opt even got going). the last thing the two entrenched parties need is for some upstarts with popular opinions to get any traction - absorb them, pervert them, or ostracize them before they get up to speed.... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Yes, exactly. This is just what I was referring to with the reference to my last bit "As a bonus, fringies on both sides will then get to swallow their party brainwash and mock the PT Glibs on internet forums and wonder why no one has thought of personal liberty and fiscal prudence before...... " nice example ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

On the plus side - it's good to see that if both parties have a common goal, they can cooperate like ravening wolves and achieve real results..... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

I'd love to see this, but it would take a real effort - I believe history shows otherwise. A group of people that believe this, let's call them the original, I'll just make up a name, "Pea Tardy" group, or perhap, "Glibertarians", would actually get another reaction. 1 - the right wing would quickly try to hijack the movement and then inject (they like to inject) an excessively religious social agenda into the movement - or even just try to fool the public into believing that. 2 -the left wing, in clear cooperative movement, would also go and make a bunch of false noise CLAIMING that the Pea Tardy Glibs group in essentially focused on an excessively religious social right wing agenda and not a freedom and fiscal responsibility philosophy. Thus making them look like the worst of their counterparts, or the mirror of the worst of their own factions. this clear example of true "bi partisan" cooperation would then minimize the Pea Tardy Glib movement into kind of a joke that can't maintain it's own self image. Both entrenched parties then get to keep their fringies, and also continue to fight over the bulk of the citizens that would actually have liked the original intent. As a bonus, fringies on both sides will then get to swallow their party brainwash and mock the PT Glibs on internet forums and wonder why no one has thought of personal liberty and fiscal prudence before...... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

It's so easy to spot, that one could, as an option, ignore the clear sarcasm and attempt at humor, and obtusely and robotically use it directly to set up strawmen, or issue veiled PAs or character jabs. I'm not saying that happens here, just that it's an option if one chooses. Insults are a lot more fun, anyway, than two way debate and discussion. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

OK offers a 5 year and 10 year. I think you have to start with the 5, the you can renew with the 10 year. No clue how often, or if they run a check to see if there is a reason to revoke them. I'm trying to conjur up an idea of a gun permit, just not has difficult to get as a CCW (so people don't fight it and it passes in congress), where you can take a Saturday and pick up a free application at your favorite gun shop. Fill in all your info, stop by Walmart and get a $10 passport photo, then take that to the Sherrifs office and give them $15 to finger print you. Leave them you app, photo, prints, and something like a hunter safety course certificate (but just a gun safety class) and a nominal processing fee. They send it in to your state investigative branch (OSBI, or TBI or whatever) and a couple weeks later you get your card. Either a separate card or an authorization on your drivers license. The idea is to do this at a state level, but all held to the same federal standard. Some states will have to give a little (NY) and some will have to take a little (TX). When you buy a gun, rather than a paper application and phone in NICS check, scan your card. Just like your drivers license, any disqualifier will automatically put an electronic hold or revocation on your card. Also at random, Fish and Game officer can see you out hunting and spot check you by calling in your card and seeing if it comes back clear, or if you just spent the weekend in the loony bin and they didn't realize you had a legally obtain gun when you were released. this is excellent - lots of people putting forth a "permit to purchase" type of idea. I like the idea of a gun safety course requirement as part of the vetting. the only bother for me is it could be leveraged into a defacto registration. I prefer it to be a blind system - it gives the authorization status (yes or no), but doesn't reverse the info to tell the gov what I purchased. Once I'm cleared to buy, at that point, then my property is not anyone's business. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants