Deimian

You mean as strong and about as close as the magnets many rigs have on the risercovers? A few centimeters from the magnets you don't feel anything from the magnets, I seriously doubt that if you can't feel the magnets with a nail or something that should be attracted to it, the electronics in the AAD is fine. I also recall Booth saying something about the magnetic risercovers and AADs a few years ago. I could be wrong but I believe it was him. There is a small difference though. The magnets in the riser covers are always there, far away from the AAD electronics. The AAD electronic unit in most containers is on the bottom of the reserve tray, isn't it? At least in mine it is there. Meaning that it is very close to the main tray. When you put the bag inside the container the magnets can be momentarily very close to the AAD. I believe it shouldn't be a problem with a properly designed electromagnetic shield, but I am not sure if this is really the case (see Cypres SB http://www.cypres-usa.com/SB_31012013_eng.pdf). If static electricity from packing can become a problem, relatively strong changes in a magnetic field might be a problem too. I'm not saying it is the case, I'm just saying that it might be a possibility. It might be advisable to contact the AAD manufacturers and hear what they have to say.

Careful with that. None of them "turn on" when the plane starts climbing: -Optima II (and I think Solo II as well, but I didn't check it) will switch to "airborne mode" when the plane starts climbing, if it was already on. The screen will turn off after 14 hours, but the device will still be turned on. If you turn it off manually it will not turn on/switch to airborne mode automatically on climbing. -ProTrack will switch to "airborne mode" when the plane starts climbing, if it was already on. In automatic mode it will never turn off automatically. In economic mode it will turn off automatically after 14 hours. If the device was turn off (either automatically when in eco mode or manually) it will not turn on/switch to airborne mode automatically on climbing. As a side note, regardless of how you operate your devices, I think it is a good idea to check them before getting into the airplane and not just assume that they'll work "automagically".

Ok, thank you for the clarification. Now I understand what was meant. I am not familiar with Strong harnesses. Regarding having the hands on the risers: You don't have to have the hands up in the risers, but close to them, or holding them close to the 3 rings. I completely agree that if you have canopies open close you should review the exit procedures. But it takes one mistake to have a problem. Meaning that if you (or anybody else, or something goes wrong for whatever reason) make an exit mistake, it is a good idea to stack the odds on your favor.

Not that it's recommended, but you gotta give it to him. That's quite badass! I am not sure if badass is the word, but definitely remarkable :-P. I have two small stories/mistakes about myself. Jump #4 or #5. I did my thing, everything was more or less ok and was about to land. As in the previous jumps I was hearing my instructor through the radio. "Don't flare yet.......... hands up...........not yet..........flare!". By the time I've heard flare my ass was already on the ground. My instructor and me were pretty far away, and the terrain was not flat, so I guess he didn't saw where I was exactly. My tailbone and "hump" bones were hurting for a week. Lesson learnt: trust your eyeballs more than the radio! Around jump #25. Hop'n'pop. I did another 2 or 3 hop'n'pops that day. I got too confident. So I jumped, left hand on my front, right hand close to the hackey and pulled, almost immediately. I wasn't stable, went on my back, the bridle came between my arm and my body, and as I kept falling backwards the bridle somehow sneaked between my legs. Grabbed with my right hand, pull it out and the canopy opened nicely. Lesson learnt: don't get confident and/or cocky!

Wouldn't you loose the chest strap after opening and not during opening?

While there is no doubt that the OP is a little bit bitter (understandable, he has lost his job), I think some people here are bashing him for no reason. Sure, the way he came to dz.com and started pointing fingers might not be the best. But he has a point: -Best case: The TM does "not recommended practices" and nothing else. Sitflying/rodeo'ing the passenger to "help" the videoman. Holding the passenger so they don't "fall out of the harness". Not recommended practices is putting it mildly. -Worst case: The TM is a jerk and unsafe to jump with. "I'll get drunk and do some skydives, I am not sure in which order", grabbing passengers boobs (sure, you don't get a feeling of it, but it is still taking advantage of your passenger), tossing the drogue in whichever position he is, wrestling the passenger, rodeo'ing the passenger just for the shake of it. Even on the best case, I think the OP did the right thing calling the TM out. Whether he dealt with it in the best way or not is another debate entirely. With this thread what I am seeing is that somebody pointed out some bad practices and got punished twice for it. Once with his job and another one here (ok, maybe this is not a real punishment, but you get the point). This has the potential of making other people to shut up when they see something wrong, just because they will be looked down by the community. I personally don't like that, and I'm pretty surprised to see that some people here think that the OP is somehow the guy to blame and he deserves it. From my point of view, kudos to the OP for having the guts of fighting against what he thought it was wrong. Even if he did it in a completely shitty way. Doing it poorly is better that not doing it. I'm not an expert, but with the force on opening I doubt anybody can prevent that from happening single handed. Besides that, as a fellow skydiver, I would appreciate that every one in the sky has his hands up ready to grab the risers in case it is necessary to avoid a canopy that appears out of nowhere during opening.

I can't tell about all the instructors, there are quite a few. But my instructors, when I was doing the AFF 2 years ago, were awesome. I think it is just that, as Dough has said, "people do whacky stuff", but I am not in a position to judge.

Yes, I find these things interesting to listen. I've just read the formal definition of entertainment. It was definitely not the right word. I didn't want to hear these things for my amusement, but rather to share experiences with other people, in the same way you would do it around the bonfire, without mocking anybody. I was not aware of the connotations of entertainment. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

It does. I don't know if he was hung on the harness, but I was when I started my AFF course.

I think you completely misunderstood me. It is nowhere close to my intention to promote a culture based on mocking anybody else or making fun of anybody. I don't do that and I don't like when people does it. When I say entertaining I say it in the same way as old timers talk about how gear was in the past, or how tandem masters talk about particular experiences, or how somebody talks how scary was that cutaway where a toggle from the main got entangled on a cascade of the reserve for a few seconds, or how current instructors got into skydiving and how their first experiences were, etc. All those are skydiving experiences. I like to hear skydiving experiences, hearing them entertains me because I like the sport. I think everyone likes to hear these kind of experiences, but it does not mean in any way that they are making fun of them. I would like you to point out where exactly you get the impression that I am this kind of people. "People like you, who make fun of someone". This student was turning painfully slow. That is a fact, it was a very slow turn. I don't think I am making fun of anybody for stating that fact. If you don't like the wording I'll substitute "painfully" by "very" next time, to avoid misunderstandings. Likewise, I didn't make fun of a student for pulling when in doubt. I've just said that she did it (pulling too high), and I guessed it was because she panicked. That is all. No mocking anywhere. I completely support you in calling out people for making fun of others, particularly students or newbies. But you choose the wrong target, I am not that kind of person, nor my message had that intention. I guess on the internet is easier to assume somebody is an asshole just out of a reinterpretation of a message. Lastly, the incidents subforum is full of serious incidents. I've read my share of it, and I am still reading the subforum every time a new one gets posted. What I wanted to read here were skydiving experiences related to student mistakes, not serious incidents, just out of curiosity, since I didn't see anything like that around.

In my short time skydiving I've seen a couple of stupid mistakes (by students) that really caught my attention. One, somewhere between 40 and 50 years old, last season, was on his first jump. As far as I know he did ok during free fall. I was on the same load as him and I saw him landing. The turnings were painfully slow. I saw how he tried to "flare", but his arms almost didn't move when pulling down. I thought he was landing on risers and I was pretty shocked. After I approached and checked if he was ok (he was) I checked the toggles. They were still stowed. It turns out he was not pulling on the toggles, or not even the risers. He was pulling on the excess of the steering lines. He thought that the "loop" of the excess was the loop that he had to pull. Amazing. I don't think he jumped again, I asked him and he told me that he had to recover from the shock of that one jump. Technically he landed on risers, on a brake approach, on his first jump. Looks remarkable to me

I guess our thinking process is different. I rather spend these 2-3 seconds disengaging the RSL on the ground than on the air. What is the probability of these 2-3 seconds being of vital importance for survival once you are on the ground? What is the probability of the same number of seconds being of vital importance for survival while you are in your pattern? I assume the first one is way lower than the second.

I see no point in doing that. You are distracting yourself at a low altitude, when things are even more critical due to the ground proximity and lack of time/altitude. What is preventing you from disengaging your RSL as soon as you land? Even more, what are you doing jumping in winds high enough that might require you to cutaway to don't injury yourself once you are on the ground? On my opinion, if you can't control your canopy on the ground you can't control it on the air. The only exception I would make is if you are going to land in a deep water body, but I don't think it happens that often, or does it?

The Next has the cutter located on top of the pilot chute, on the left flap, according to the manual.

Indeed, I missed the question. Scenario B is not really relevant from the safety point of view (it is from the economic point of view though). You can change the algorithm to account for this case. Something like: If after a cutaway the fall speed did not increase passed a couple of seconds, or if it has slowed down, don't fire. I agree that it adds complexity and adds little value over what an RSL does. I have an RSL and a MARD. With them this is pretty irrelevant. This concept/suggestion/discussion is for the people that don't want an RSL for whatever reason. For everyone else it is completely unnecessary. I knew about those incidents, but I was too lazy to search the specific examples and details of them. I believe that in those cases this thing could have helped. Again, of course an RSL is better, but not everyone wants an RSL (I do!)

I can't think of any reason to undo your chest strap with the brakes stowed. I can think of one very important reason to do it with the toggles in your hands. The reason is that if you have a problem with one of your steering lines and you don't see it before taking the toggles, you might have to cutaway with your chest strap loosened, which will make more difficult to reach your handles.

So how would the device then work? Say you cut away at 3000ft and not do anything. Then by the time you get to the activiation altitude, your speed should be higher then the activation speed. But say you only cut away at just above 1000ft. Changes are that you won't have the activation speed. Should the AAD then fire at activation altitude, regardless of speed? If so, won't that in case of a cutaway always result in a AAD fire? Or am I missing something? :) You are not missing anything. That is exactly what it is supposed to do. Cutting away at 1000ft you simply do not have time to get stable or anything like that. Under those circumstances you need to get something out as fast as possible, and that is the purpose of this thing. But it still allows you to get stable and pull manually if you have more altitude, contrarily to what an RSL does. In other words, it leaves you completely on your own unless it is completely necessary to take action. I still prefer a normal RSL, but there is some people that doesn't.

I still disagree with this . If you cutaway at 3000ft, but the activation altitude is a at 750ft, this thing would not trigger anything regarding deployment of the reserve PC, whereas any RSL, electronic or not, will do it. I just don't see the "static line" here anywhere. It would just rearm the AAD, it won't trigger any action regarding reserve deployment if the altitude requirement is not meet. An RSL does it regardless of the altitude, hence the "static line" in its name. If something I would call it electronic reserve dynamic line .

It is not an electronic RSL. If you see it like that I agree that it is totally stupid, as an RSL is a well proven device that it is unlikely to be outperformed by this concept. The point is that this is not an RSL. It won't pull the reserve pin on a cutaway. It won't prevent you from getting stable before opening the reserve. It will just avoid that the AAD cuts the loop too low. If the AAD takes the decision of cutting the loop then by no means you have altitude to get stable and pull the handle yourself. Its appeal is that it would speed up significantly the rearming procedure of the AAD after a cutaway. I think the complexity of such thing would reside on making sure that when the device tells the AAD to rearm, it is not a false positive. On that sense, it indeed can add an additional failure point and cause the AAD to cut the loop without needing it, if the algorithms are not properly adapted or the device is not reliable enough. But this is a matter of implementation I think. It might be possible to implement this reliably, and it might be not, I don't know. Indeed, I think CRW jumpers *might* be interested in this. At the same time CRW dogs are typically smart enough to don't get themselves to be that low without something functioning over their heads, as the majority of their problems happen up high. Also anybody else that do not want to use RSLs. The problem is that even if the concept makes sense, the market share (skydivers without RSL/MARD but with AAD) would be so small that no company would invest any money in R&D for this.

Reading some recent AADs threads an idea popped up. It looks like in some recent fatalities the AADs failed to cut the loop on time to save their owners after a cutaway. Possible contributing factors or concerns that people had mentioned: -Stuffed containers -Insufficient drag of the reserve PC. -Slow opening reserves -Disengaged or lack of RSL/MARD The last one affects cutaway scenarios, whereas the others affect also total mals that require to use the reserve with the main still in its tray. In any case, discussions are been held to determine whether people should raise the activation altitude of their AADs. So far so good. Now, what happens when the AAD activation altitude is high enough to allow the reserve to fully inflate and hopefully save somebody's life (an user that raised its activation altitude to compensate for some of the factors stated above), but the AAD won't activate after a cutaway because it has not reached the activation speed (i.e.: the jumper is in free fall but too slow for the AAD to activate during the first few seconds after a cutaway)? The resulting activation altitude will be lower, and potentially not high enough. The activation speed is the way that the AAD has to determine whether the jumper is in freefall or not. What I am thinking to avoid this scenario (admittedly a corner case, but I think every fatality in this sport is close to a corner case, since in most of the cases any given skydive does not end up in a fatality), is to have some kind of built-in feedback device to notify the AAD that we are again in freefall even though we didn't build up enough speed yet. Something like a "freefall pin" that would be pulled similarly to an RSL, but whose only function is to tell the AAD that we are again in freefall after a cutaway. It can be just a cable to goes to a riser, and when the riser is released the circuit opens and the AAD knows that even though the activation speed is not too high, it will increase as we are in freefall, and therefore, if we are lower than the activation altitude it should cut the loop. Does anybody know of a documented fatality or injury where the AAD cut the loop too late due to lack of speed? Or is this a solution to a problem that does not exist (or has not manifested itself)? I don't see any downside of the concept, but it might help to save a life or two, if somebody implements the concept in a practical and reliable manner. This is meant as a discussion, so feel free to criticize the post. But please avoid posts like "the solution is to use better PC, non-stuffed containers or less cornered, fast opening reserves, RSL, MARDS, etc". I think all these things are a better solution, but they are not mutually exclusive of what I am saying. Besides that non-optimal PC and stuffed and cornered containers will be around for a while, not everyone agrees on using RSLs and MARDS, and the fastest opening in the world might not be enough if the loop is cut too late. Moreover these things have been discussed plenty of times in other threads.

How do you suggest to attach the rubber band to the hand? Passing a finger through it? Another possibility would be strong magnets in gloves and toggles. That way they wouldn't sleep so easily but they would release anyway in a cutaway. It might create problems with hand mounted altimeters though.

No, sorry, I didn't use it. I just knew that it existed and thought you might be interested.

L&B have their own wedge. Useful is you have a viso. https://www.lbwebstore.com/wedge-mount.html

I personally think that releasing brakes after loosening the chest strap is not the best choice. What is the reason? Here: http://www.deepseed.com/d-spot/blog/liam/inside-no-pull-cypres-save-0 I agree. Goonie, you may want to consider this flow: Canopy looks good... check traffic Release brakes & control check... check traffic Locate LZ... check traffic Choose best/safest route to LZ Housekeeping... slider/legstraps/cheststraps/turn camera off, etc. Not only the aforementioned cheststrap, you may not want a reserve opening with legstraps down to your knees. This has been discussed before, but I personally don't think that pulling the slider down AFTER you have release the brakes is a good approach. Pulling it down with the brakes released looks to me far more complicated, time consuming, distracting and error prone than doing it with the brakes stowed. Also, why would you want to loosen your leg straps? I understand that being in a seated position is more comfortable, but we are not hanging for that long......

I don't think he's saying you shouldn't loosen the chest strap -- he's saying do it after you release your brakes. I agree. The idea is to make sure as best you can that you won't have to cut away before loosening the chest strap (e.g., what if one brake releases and the other won't release?), which could cause for a very difficult time trying to find your handles while executing EPs. Exactly. I do loose my chest strap. But I do it after releasing the brakes.