SkyDaemon

Which DZ is this? =) -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

Michael, He didn't hit on me while he was in Vancouver either... come to think of it, no visiting BASE jumper ever has... =) -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

Jaap, I respect your decision to remove the basewiki.com website. When information is protected and hard to obtain those who desire it go to substantial lengths to acquire it. It filters on the quality of individual who is willing to invest the time and effort to seek out those with said information about an otherwise underground (and extremely dangerous) sport. Placing the "how to" guide in the hands of the masses often leads to each member of the masses gaining a sense of confidence due to their reading things such as these forums or the basewiki.com. The 'script-kiddies' that are the mosquitos of my industry are a prime example of how ignorant people can get ahold of just enough information to damage themselves and those around them. While an argument can be made that placing all information in the public domain, readily and easily available is 'good' one has to define what 'good' is. I think you properly illustrated the argument against it in your post. To address the fatality list, it serves to discourage individuals from jumping while this forum and the basewiki seem to indirectly encourage people to jump. The hype of what the 'cool kids' are up to in the 'BASE community' intrigues and appeals to many, and could be considered to 'market' the sport. Providing quick and easy information about the sport, someone could assume they have the skills and confidence to approach the sport independently, or worse talk authoratively about it to others. Perhaps this is how the 'bad Jacks' are born (allusion to a recent post of Nick's). Many from dz.commers (and the general public) peruse this forum and find 'getting into base' is becoming easier and easier. (as is demonstrated by the explosion in BASE numbers and new jumpers) The message you posted on the wiki seems to spell out the position well, and I find it makes sense. The information is important to have... but that doesn't mean it has be written down and posted on the internet. There are other ways to preserve the value of the information without making a website about it. At the end of the day it's your call, although if you don't repost it, someone else may. Installing wiki software is relatively easy, and more than likely someone will eventually duplicate your attempt. Best of luck with your decision. -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

... -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

My sincerest sympathies to those who were friends with the deceased. I can't say we were close, but certainly friendly. This is a sad day. -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

I'm willing to bet the individual who hired you is a small businessman.... As a small businessman I can say that cash flow and cash management aren't necessarily inherent qualities to an entreprenuer. Banks tend to make a king's randsom in bounced check fees off people who spend most of their mental cycles on running and growing a company, and then deny them overdraft protection and lines of credit for their bounced check record. It's one thing to have a regular and fixed income and to setup a budget and live by it, and another thing to have a variable income and unreliable cash flow, and try to keep the books balanced and the most important creditors paid on time. The fact that he had the cash to cover the checks but didn't transfer it over in time, is a mistake I'm familiar with. He's actually a good businessman in a lot of ways (i.e. produces more than he consumes, and earns enough money to cover his expenses) although he's a bad businessman inasmuch as his focus on 'banking' isn't enough or very good. I have a lot of sympathy for that, I hate banks, banking, and dealing with moving money in general. It gets even more fun when you start adding in all the accounts you have. The average joe schmoe probably has a couple of credit cards, a savings account, a checking account, and maybe a car loan and a mortgage. They have utility bills and living expenses... Now add in: payroll, office leases, inventory expenses, business checking accounts, savings accounts, overdraft protection lines of credit, credit cards, business utilities (which btw are always higher than residential), business license fees, legal fees, proper incorporation paperwork, creating and sending invoices, maintaing the books, advertizing, (costs and efforts), sales (costs and efforts), contract writing and reviews, hiring some contractor to do book keeping, oh yeah, and then creating a product or service to sell ;-) Versus the individual who goes to a 'job' does their 40hrs, and goes home to live the rest of their life... I'm not certain that this is the case, although I have a hunch that it is... if so it's akin to someone juggling two balls saying "can you believe that guy has dropped over a thousand balls while juggling this last year". The answer is: "Yes. He's juggling two hundred and you're almost able to keep two in the air." (even people who never bounce checks still make financial mistakes.) :-) -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

Congratulations. :-) I had LASIK about four years ago, and loved it then, and continue to love it. Welcome to a corrective lens free world :-) -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

Anyone else notice jumpers trying to make a name for themselves by being loud critics of others on dropzone.com tend to spend most of their time online talking about culture, ethics, and opinions versus actually contributing objects, exit points, and style to the sport... find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

That's been posted on here and Blinc as well. I believe it illustrates the spirit and essense of what is admirable about the sport of BASE. I think it also says a lot about those who post online. -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

The concept of the "BASE Community" is actually a silly one. Each jumper is out for his own object(s). Objects a BASE jumper inherits through no effort of his own are subject to the rules (advice) of those who opened it. If you don't like them, get your own object. If you want to jump an object that was 'gifted' to the 'community' then jump it with the intentions of those who opened it. Otherwise f*&k off and get your own. Jeb has paid his dues and respected the objects of those who opened them, he attempted a high profile jump and failed, although if he'd succeeded and suddendly had the beta to the ESB you'd all be panting at his feet for access (or pretend you were aloof and that you weren't interested in the object). BASE wasn't invented or defined for people who were cautious or careful or interested in regulations or licenses. It was a bunch of yahoos thinking that flicking fixed objects would be fun. The 'community' is those who jump objects opened by other people or those who open them and give the beta to the world. Then there are those who open objects and choose not to post them on dz.com or share them with the masses. Those with hundreds (or over a thousand) of jumps who don't post online and engage in the 'community'. The fact that those online have an opinion without knowing Jeb (or his objects of his jumps) and griping about the 'rights' of the 'community' need to contribute more than you consume. Get to a point where you've contributed more than you've consumed and then talk about 'the community' You might change your attitude. With all due respect, Jeb has contributed a fair amount and the fact that he's made a mistake along the way is sad, although immaterial. While those who have opinions about this event are interesting, I look forward to the point where your opinions are backed by goodwil of those in 'the community', based on the contirbutions, and your earned respect. I wonder how many of Jeb's strongest critics are familiar with his contributions. I'm certain he is of theirs. -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

That's the risk of jumping buildings... what's your alternate suggestion? -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

Well said. It seems there are far too many skydivers walking around with BASE rigs (and even numbers) these days. -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

There already is a "bonfire" "speaker's corner" and "base forum" as well as a technical forum over on blinc. (as well as many other forums on blinc). -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

I find a part of this discussion interesting, most of which revolves around the concepts of: a) attacking Jeb for attempting to jump the ESB and 'burning it'. b) being offended that if another jumper did the same thing the reaction from dz.com regulars (not BASE jumpers, just the people that post on dz.com) would be different. c) criticism of methods used by the guards on the buidling to detain Jeb. The ESB is a high profile object which has been jumped very few times, it's hardly anyone's regular object. The concept of 'burning' it is exaggerated as no one was using it. The risks of jumping such a high profile object are obvious, and Jeb (and likely everyone who has attempted to jump such high profile objects) take as many precautions as possible to make the jump successful. Jeb did the same thing, and confronted difficult odds of success. The bust factor is high, the landing is technical, and access to the exit requires some definite creativity. He likely did his best and failed. That's not an uncommon outcome for those who attempts high profile objects or open new objects. It's one of the challenges of forging new ground. I've been on top of the ESB and I've jumped with Jeb. I found Jeb's BASE ethics and drive in the sport admirable. While that's a subjective opinion, I (and I'd like to think others) hold their subjective opinions based on evidence. The fact that other jumpers may be flamed for 'burning' objects is a) unprovable in this situation, since they didn't attempt to jump the ESB and b) likely based on something other than their success of failure in jumping the object. People develop reputations and identities based on what they say (about) themselves as well as what others say about that individual. If anyone feels that another jumper would be treated differently than Jeb, I'm curious why they believe such a delta exists. I'm also curious how familiar they are with Jeb, his experience, his knowledge, his sense of ethics and his attitude. I'd hypothesize that one's reactions are directly correlated to their perception of a jumper's experience, knowledge and sense of ethics. While it's nice to read the headlines and articles posted on the internet and speculate, none of us were there. Have you ever been at an event that was covered in the press? How accurate the was the write up? There's more than one side to this story and no one has heard Jeb's side of it yet. While it's fun to make comments from the sidelines, Jeb was the one who actually there and actually attempting something interesting and perhaps amazing, while the rest of us are sitting in chairs, staring at screens, and typing on keyboards. I think a jumper who spends time jumping, scouting new objects, opening new objects, and spends a few years in the sport has a different point of view on situations like this versus someone who's just earned their BASE number, made their first few jumps, or hasn't jumped at all. One learns by experience, and when you attempt to open a new object or jump a high profile object you may well feel differently. You also may not feel differently, you may still hold the same opinions, and those with more experience may still criticize Jeb's actions. The guards on the top of the ESB live in a city that has seen it's two tallest skyscrapers crumble. They (like many) are probably trying to a) climb the corporate ladder, b) keep their jobs, c) do a good job. They nabbed someone doing something unusual and obviously illegal, looking at the situation through their eyes, it's pretty easy to understand that they'll do whatever they can to ensure they catch him. If anyone thinks that enforcement officers are looking for ways to be gentle and kind to someone who has climbed on the over the big rail onto the other side on a high profile object ilke the ESB, you're wrong. Much like another poster here, I feel like it's Groundhog Day. -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

Well, I'm trying to figure out some mathematical statistics and am having a hard time with some of them. Unfortunately it's one of those sciences that few people know. I was curious if anyone could give me a hand. I'd really appreciate it. Here's one of the questions: The average SAT score in mathematics is 483 with a standard deviation of 100. An ad for a special preparation course claims that this course can increase mathematics SAT scores. A sample of 32 students completed this course and took the mathematics SAT getting a mean score of 494. At an alpha of .05, does this course do what it claims? find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

Quality Absinthe is damn good :-) I have a nice bottle from 'Liquores de France' and am loving it. I'll likely get a bottle from Pernod next. It's a very tasty and interesting spirit with an amazing history. It was the original target of prohbition in Europe which was attempted by the US. -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

Shalom! Happy Passover! Hmm last I checked Elijah had a bad habit of burning people he didn't get along with in a pillar of flame. I think i'll stay out of his way. :-) -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

Whoa... man, you have some real growing up to do. Methinks you know very few gay skydivers and have far too much fear, ignorance, and general self loathing to publically such disgusting stereotypes. -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

Canada is great right now! :-) Well vancouver is anyways. -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

Been there, done that, moved on... ... hope all of you who enjoy it.... enjoy it :-) -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

Normally not my thing, but it is beautiful. -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

Krisanne, I think you're pretty hot :-) -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

I saw themin concert back in 1994 (or something) with Metallica and Alice in Chains. Awesome concert in Portland, OR. -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

Happy Anniversary to Jeff and yourself! May there be many more :-) -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

I win :-) It's good to be Raistlin -=Raistlin find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;