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This is getting boring so I’ll bail out after this but it seems to need restating…he could have gone to Mexico if he wanted. He nailed the max distance of a fully loaded 727 flying normally. That was obviously not a guess. So when they come back and say refuels needed/Reno, you claim that’s a mixup yada yada…but it doesn’t matter. Nothing they said would have changed his knowledge. He knew the plane could go to Mexico (fact), and he knew it had a full tank (fact). If he wanted to go there he simply reminds them of who has the bomb (fact..he has the bomb). You have nothing to counter those three facts. You assume he/pilots/GC got confused in the game of telephone around the configuration. But again…that’s not relevant to what he knew to be facts. He didn’t get amnesia and forget.
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Why is this so hard to understand.. You are arguing he pre-planned a random jump... OK,, makes no sense but fine. The evidence is that he had no indication where the plane would be,, it could have been on the coast... His eventual LZ was not his original plan when he boarded the plane,,, his original plan would be speculation but facts suggest it was somewhere further South... and he would have given specific path instructions in the air.. The fact that he did not ensure a position for the plane proves he did not target a location.. this is simple stuff.. To believe his original plan was a random jump is silly,,, The simplest and best explanation within the evidence... He boarded with a jump plan, when Reno was in play he altered it and jumped as soon as he felt he could,,,
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Sure, in fact I’ll take any explanation that makes sense to anyone. Seems to me all we know for sure is that it won’t end until the social systems we build stop falling apart as all things are won’t to do.
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Right but his plan may have been to do exactly that. It might seem somewhat barebones and even dumb from our point of view, but it indeed worked; we are forced to pick up the pieces and try and make sense of it. I don't know what 'evidence' you are pointing to; we know that he got on the plane and that he left the plane and, using the bits that we can piece together from transcripts, witnesses, etc., we can try and decide why he did the things he did. There's nothing that makes it clear what his exact plan was once he got on the plane. He didn't have instructions prewritten, he worked and instructed as things went on. His plan appears to have been malleable and it could have been as nebulous as "once I get them off the ground headed somewhere farther away I will jump out once I see the first lights of civilization." He could have timed himself and gotten lucky. He could have planned everything out before the jump as he did and told himself "I'll just wing the jump part." I think there are options that are more likely than not, but I can't think he wasn't at least cognizant of the cardinal directions on the map. I don't think he's pinpointing where he's going to land but he might assume he's within walking distance of the interstate in the dark or something of that level. That's a plan. Knowing that he planned something else that didn't work out and ended up going this requires orders of magnitude more evidence.
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So, you are stated a few generalities,,, "it worked" etc.. that don't actually support the argument. How can he have this plan the entire time if he gave no path, no demand or confirmation for the planes position.. It can be reasonably argued he would have no expectation for the plane to fly over a populated area... Safe to assume he had a plan,, targeting his jump where he did based on the lights of Battle Ground wasn't it. His jump as ad hoc... and I believe NOT his original plan based on the evidence.. There is no way Cooper boards the plane targeting his eventual LZ... no way.. He adjusted and just jumped..
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Hi Phil, One perspective: Former Defence Secretary Bob Gates once told me [ Katty Kay, British reporter ] that the three greatest threats to America's national security were a rising China, a declining Russia and the country's own internal divisions. Katty Kay: Why America is at a dangerous crossroads following the Charlie Kirk shooting The article is a little long; but, well worth reading. Jerry Baumchen PS) Of course, my age shows; it is something that we all suffer.
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I reiterate that Orwell was an optimist. Trump has yet to surprise me, but I can't wait until he's no longer a factor. I hope the next Grand Poobah is survivable.
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My point is that the immediate reaction from various corners was pretty much either A) The radical left killed him for being too far right or The radical right killed him for talking to the left. That it was some incel gamer who decided that anyone disrespecting homosexual/transsexual/furries needed to die wasn't one of the primary options. A very short video providing a description of the subculture and this guy's apparent place in it was moderately painless. Charlie Kirk's delusion centered around his relationship with Magic Jewish Zombie. His killer's delusion was exemplified by the idea that he'd committed the perfect crime and nobody would figure it out. I guess he watched too much of our Commander in Chief, and concluded that the rules could be put on 'pause.'
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To me it sounds like this is the plan he had in its entirety the whole time; there's little to suggest any other plan other than this rough one, he seems to have followed it without much fuss when told he couldn't do it as he originally stated, and it worked. The biggest thing here is that it doesn't matter--I don't think it will help prove who he was if we focus on this part of the hijacking since there isn't enough information to suggest something about a solid plan or where he intended to land. If he had been concrete in those things we could maybe put something together. For me we can tell that he was unafraid to jump into the night, fine with using a "good enough" approach to where he would land, and confident enough in the vagaries of the eventual flightpath that was settled on to not put up a fuss. Useful info, but... I err on the side of him having a basic plan to get the plane going south, however, he could have literally had no idea where he would end up at all and just gotten lucky again. He's good at luck. All that to say that when we find him this stuff will fit in and we can remove a lot of the fuzziness from our end, but it's not going to narrow down people enough to start with it.
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Woooow there Jerry your age is showing. Trump messaging is whats good on the right and what shows off America favourably. Its the rest of history that must be forgotten. New textbooks across the line coming soon and then burn the old..
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I hear you. Makes me sad for the days when murders were easily understood. Maybe we need a video explaining how it also wasn’t an up or down issue.
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Many happy returns!
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As a wise man once said, 'fuck 'em if they can't take a joke."
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Happy Birthday Jerry!
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Lunacy... curtain was closed.. blinds were pulled.. He could only see that far forward if looking around stairs from bottom, possible but no evidence he saw Battle Ground or planned it... but that isn't the point, South is not a path,,, he had ZERO knowledge for that plane to be there. It is a weak theory that doesn't fit the evidence, just layers and layers of assumptions. In fact, they seriously discussed taking the coast, going over populated areas with a potential bomb was not a good idea..
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Nah. The pilots did report seeing the lights. Since cities are considerably wider than aircraft, Cooper would likely have been able to see them too by simply looking forward out the side windows. Kamkisky's theory holds water. South is a path. When I suggested something similar a while back, you thought it was ridiculous that even if they had started out over the coast that they would have had to come back inland to get to Reno. How wide is California? You keep saying that they 'could have' gone out over the ocean. The question then is, if they had would Cooper have spoken up? Well they didn't, so we'll never know. Recently you were pissed off because you thought I had 'insulted' you. Is there anyone here that you don't insult?
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Hi folks, OK, what's next - lobotomies for those who do not agree with him: Trump moves to scrub national parks sites of signs that cast America in a 'negative light' : NPR IMO once we lose our history [ good & bad ], we are doomed. Jerry Baumchen
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Hi all of you, Thanks - and this is me 84 yrs ago. Jerry Baumchen
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The difference is when.. Did he have this "plan" before he got on the plane... Evidence says no...
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Hi folks, Yes, indeed; who is next: Comedians, celebrities and writers react to Jimmy Kimmel’s suspension: ‘What is happening to our country?’ - oregonlive.com Jerry Baumchen
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No, it isn's exactly when he jumped,, and you have zero evidence he saw the lights, planned to jump at the lights and he did not have the pre-knowledge that the plane would be there on that path... You have manufactured a narrative which is fine for a theory but it does not fit the evidence.
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I think that arguing anything other than a version of events like this--go south and when you see some lights jump out of the plane--is what requires special evidence. This is literally the simplest explanation. Just because he jumps quickly after getting to the bottom of the stairs doesn't mean anything. If the plan is "jump at lights" and the lights show up quickly...that still means it was his plan.
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I don’t think Georger can define path in this case without reference to directionality either. It’s a term you are using either incorrectly or without meaning. I think I’d land in the Central Valley every time. I think he jumped the lights, because that’s exactly when he jumped. And I don’t have secret evidence, I don’t need it. The distinctive lights quote you put is significant evidence of my theory. Thanks for that.
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Hi Bill, Lest any of us forget: The Nazi's first came for the Communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak for me. Rev. Martin Niemoeller Jerry Baumchen
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I guess he’s making the point that right wing criminals are more likely to be hopeless recidivists while left wing criminals are more open to rehabilitation? Not quite sure why though.
