pek771

That looks like the reverser deployed at full throttle on takeoff (although I have never seen that before). There would seem to be more damage on hard landing. The rear cowl looks scorched. It still would require an immediate trip for alcohol for any occupants.

I suppose a scholarly book on DB Cooper would contain about one paragraph for the facts. Followed by a chapter or two of separating rumor from fact. If Mailer writes it, maybe three chapters. John (time and tide for no man wait) Updike likely could have written an entire series on it.

Good question. Is it possible that their extension angle was determined by airspeed? When the plane came to a halt on the ground they had no slipstream pushing them upwards. In the FBI sled test photos (taken from the chase aircraft) the unloaded and loaded stair deflection angles should be visible. I sure wish Ckret had been able to post the video of the sled test. 377 If airspeed is the determining factor of stair position (relative to up or down), who is to say Cooper didn't jump when N467 was on approach to Reno? Lower airspeed would have lessened the possibility of a pressure bump. But, then there is that money thing in the river...

Thanks for the explanation. My knowledge of civilian aircraft is lacking a bit. It seems the interlocks are, I am going to guess, via cable. To the point of egress...I suppose if you want to go "down", you push the down lever. The lever pusher does not care how the hell the stairs go down, that was Boeing's area of expertise. I still want to know what the ground crew found in Reno. Then again, since there was one hijacking every 5.6 days during the 69-73 or so time frame, maybe post flight inspection wasn't a big deal.

I may be missing a page from the schematics, but where is the electric motor? It seems we can only lower the stairs by hydraulic pressure, nitrogen pressure or gravity. One other little thing about the mysterious yet entertaining stairs. There are two separate control locations for the stairs; top of the stairs and outside under the (starboard?) engine. Do they have to be lever-positionally coordinated by the ground crew? ie, is it like a room with two light switches for the same light? This may be a stupid statement at this moment, but what I do have for schematics, I left at work.

This is a very interesting analysis done by naturehominid. One question I have had, which really would tell a lot about the DB Cooper story is this: Where did the ground crew in Reno find the levers? They could have definitely told how the stairs were placed down. I have not seen this information anywhere. I suspect the FBI knew it was done via emergency extension, else why would they have conducted the drop tests? From the diagram I have, it appears that the shear lugs in detail "D" would have sheared, which makes sense....you wouldn't want the stairs to go back up during an emergency egress. If the stairs were used in normal DOWN, then they should have been locked, as, if I recall, the stairs were also used as an aft support to keep the nose gear on the ground during ground operations. Thus, we have an implication that the crew did indeed disable the B hydraulic system, for their own safety. Was this ever mentioned publicly? The basis of the assumed drop zone is based strictly on the perception that the "pressure bump" was in fact Cooper leaving the stairs.

How is the FLIGHT PATH based on 'findings of Dr. Palmer, and physical description of Cooper by the stewardesses?' Why do you omit bleach and the Magna Carta? Sorry for the confusion. The few things are actually four things. The flight path (1) is not known precisely, and that,of course, has zero to do with the late Dr. Palmer. So, no one really is 100% certain of where the aircraft flew. Where exactly did Cooper jump (2)? Again, not know for certain. There are some very reasonable, objective guesses as to the flight path and the departure point. The findings of Dr. Palmer (3) seem to play a very large role in this mystery. The entire Cooper mystery changed when the money was found, thus the washed ashore/placed by humans intentionally/dredged up/ et al can of worms was opened. The physical description of Cooper is provided by two or three flight attendants, and it seems that many possible suspects have been excluded or included simply due to their match to the original and revised descriptions. So, this brings me back to my assertions that there are only four things that the entire body of work regarding the search for DB Cooper revolve around. Does this seem plausible? I omitted bleach because I prefer Oxy-Clean. I didn't think the Magna Carta added any value to the discussion. King John may beg to differ.

Well, 1971 was pre-Ronald Reagan in ATC terms. Also, the NYC area has the most arcane ATC system. There has been talk of an upgrade for years. I believe it is powered by Commodore 64's. Coomunications were sorely lacking in many respects that day. I recall standing on the roof at work thinking how quiet the skies were...until an F-16 flew by at about 0945. To quickly recap a few things, isn't the entire search based on only a few things...flight path (unknown for certain), point of departure (also unknown), findings of Dr. Palmer, and physical description of Cooper by the stewardesses? I believe the rate of hijackings in the 1968-1972 period was one every 5.6 days...I can post a thorough but boring statistical link. My dad told me that if you crashed on the carrier deck while alighting, you got pushed overboard, as you thus placed the entire flight recovery operations at risk. The greater good was to land what was left of the mission forces, and the USN would fish you out of the ocean as best they could.

What do we suppose Marla's cut is on Gray's book?

Was the money found in three separate bundles? Or were the bundles somehow attached together? Evel Kinevel could have dropped a single bundle when he was going into the Snake River and it could have ended up on Tena Bar, in theory.

Jerry, if Cooper plugs upstream, but in the area being dredged, and then he and the money get dredged, why is this not feasible?

Cursory glance reveals three separate methods for door opening/closing. Simple drop, as you highlit before, This is the "no electrical power" scenario. Thre is also the B system hydraulics, and the self contained pneumatic system. Any system actuated other than the simple drop system will lock the stairs down, which would preclude the stairs from retracting back when the load pushed off. I am assuming this as the manual states the stairs will provide stability fore and aft in case of the nose becoming light during ingress or egress. There are some parallel switches in there, but it is difficult for me to look at the schematic on my little laptop screen. I will print it tomorrow and look harder. I am also assuming the flight crew/ground crew found the stairs were gravity dropped upon landing in Reno. BTW, Dr. Hoenig used to tell us, "you mechanical guys need to pay attention to these electronics. The whole world will be electronic someday."

So, when you get to the party late (as I did), you find out lots of stuff you didn't previously know. Fazio Brothers, for instance. Tough being a casual observer for 40 years and then getting involved...thanks, Marla! Excellent find on the stairs manual. If aft stairs need to be in the detent to make the microswitch, I suppose it is quite possible that the stair bounce at exit shot the stairs to the detent, only to have gravity pull the stairs back down, and open the switch again. Was there ever any mention of the lever positions upon landing at Reno?

She has been digging there during summers since 1972. She hasn't found anything yet.

KISS was drilled into me long ago, although not everyone adheres to it. As Robert99 has demonstrated, the aircraft flight path could easily have taken it to the intersection of the Columbia on V23, and likely more on the west side of V23, so that exploding aircraft parts don't rain down on a major metropolitan area. I suppose if you are simply freefalling with no open parachute and a bag of money, you could be dredged up at some later date. This is a very distinct possibility. Perhaps there is some $194 K in a sand pile somewhere?

Looks like the Fazio Bros did not operate the site at 12112 NW Lower Road in Vancouver prior to 1976. Perhaps someone else did, or there was no site there. Next question: where did Fazio dredge just prior to the discovery of the money in 1980 (?) Did the FBI ask these questions?

I don't understand the "fan out" aspect of this. A stack of bills, wrapped by rubber band(s) isn't going to "fan out", it will remain as is. Rubber bands, I have discovered, will last indefinitely in water...no sunlight or ozone to destroy them. If Cooper goes into the Columbia as a "no pull", he could have essentially buried the money, along with himself, and some money got dislodged and ended up at Tena Bar during dredging operations. The rest, along with Cooper, his chute and the money is in the river or the Pacific. If the money landed in a watershed, it is unlikely it made it's way to that sand bar.

Farflung, wouldn't this have occurred to the FBI in, say, 1980 or so? Or, does the Fazio Bros operation begin after that date? In effect, the money is still in the river.

Robert99: If the cockpit indicator light was on indicating a stairway down condition, would there not be a similar light for the pressure door? This point has either not been clearly defined, as you say, or I missed it. This is central to the exit point. I am going to have to guess that for whatever reason, the FBI et al have determined that the pressure bump and the point of exit are concurrent, else this entire caper is totally out of whack. Pat

After reading the entire 68 page other post, and much of this post, in addition to Sluggo's website, I have come to the realization that only two factors have any meaning relative to the entire DBC saga. One is the found money, and more importantly, the unfound money. I suspect due to the unreliability of any physical means of identification, such as DNA or fingerprints, almost anyone could claim to be DBC. Now, if someone could produce a $20 bill with the correct serial number, that would make this interesting. The most important factor is that the point of the pressure bump. If not for the recreation of this by the same aircraft and aircrew, this point could be moot. But, the sled drop test, to the flight crew, was the same as what we now believe to be the exit point for DBC. The entire case is wrapped around this supposed jump point. Robert99 does an excellent analysis on this. However, I am unclear on one thing...was the rear door open or closed when the aircraft landed in Reno. I suspect it was open. Is the pressure bump a 100% certainty that was the point of exit? Most likely. But if not 100% surety on the point of exit means he could have jumped outside of Reno, for all we know.

orange1, I agree that there have been searches which have proved fruitless, such as the one I read from here regarding the crash in the Andes many years ago. So, true, there is no guarantee any remnants were ever found. If they were found, say by a hunter, the he became the most secretive person ever. I was stationed at Elmendorf in Anchorage. The area around the inlet was littered with crash remnants from years gone by, but these were usually aircraft hulks, or parts...not bio-degradable like we are. I didn't mention the less probable stuff, such as maybe he didn't jump where the FBI thought he did, and no one searched for him. I know we all have this view of the FBI as infallible, but I have my doubts about the effort on this investigation.

There seem three possible AND probable outcomes assuming Cooper jumped; he opened and walked away, he opened and perished in the landing, he didn't open. If he opened and walked away, he became the most secretive fugitive ever. The next parts require us to imagine a search is being conducted in some manner: If he opened and perished, remnants surely would have been found if over land. If he put down in water, there is still a high probability something would have been found. If he didn't open (a no-pull?), then he hit the surface of the Earth hard. I assume his terminal velocity is upwards of 170 ft/sec, so he would have large inertial forces. Would he necessarily be found if he impacted a tree, even with a cursory glance? If he hit an open area, could he have been buried? If he hit water, one would think some remnants would have been spotted. I am unfamiliar with the Columbia, so I can't say with any degree of certainty if nautical traffic would have noticed anything. Same applies to any of the other bodies of water there. I skipped over the less probable stuff. My father told me that when he was a kid in the early 1930's, some flying barnstormers came to town. They had a parachutist in the troupe. During the airshow at Christies Airport (gone but not forgotten), the parachutist was a no-pull. Supposedly, the kids all ran to the semi-swampy area and found him buried upright to his chest. My father also walked to school seven miles each way, uphill. As I did.

New guy here again. I thought the premise of the Gagarin story was interesting. I also think the premise of The Beverly Hillbillies was the best idea ever for TV, and that DBC jumped into an empty field west of the Columbia and walked away. And, further, I have reasoned rubber bands may last indefinitely in cold, dark water. It is the air and sunlight that kills them. Has there ever been any trace of the money other than the found money on Tena Bar?

Thanks again, Robert99! This rubber band thing has always been a sticking point to me. Maybe the money was also paper banded by the bank, but then you have glue decomposition on those bands. Someone put the money in the river intentionally is my best guess. 40 years is a long time to find nothing, with half the world and the FBI looking for anything remotely resembling a clue. I suppose if, by this time, Cooper has passed on, he is thumbing his nose at J. Edgar Hoover every chance he gets! I didn't read all of this thread...it is pretty long. I suppose it could be culled down to about 100 pages easily enough to be the Readers Digest version.

Robert99, thanks very much for the answer. Another question: how do rubber bands last for so many years in water? I have always found this DB Cooper subject fascinating from the day it happened. I also believe he did not jump over any mountainous terrain. Your aero analysis supports that. Man, that yellow Cub sure is nice!