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My definition was "something that could not normally be anticipated", so my definition would probably not include any of those. My definition is not the only one. I started the topic because I wondered how people use the term, including outside of skydiving.

Another thread prompted me to start this topic. We often use the term "freak accident" (related to many incidents and accidents in life, not just skydiving.) So what is the best definition? To me, it is something that could not normally be anticipated and that caused or made worse an incident or accident. 1. One example might be something that collapsed a canopy when none of the conditions that cause turbulence are present. 2. Another might be someone that falls on landing and hits their (unhelmeted head) on an undetected rock in an otherwise grassy landing area. 3. Unknown medical conditions might be included. But in general, perhaps we should not be using the term "freak accident" very often, because most of the dangers in skydiving should be well known, as well as the things we do to mitigate their risks.

Well, there we go! The precedent has been set. The floodgates are now open. Soon to be seen at the DZ. (Well, if Perris Valley allows it, then why not others? Why not tandem students?) I wonder if the "anti-camera for under 200 jumps" crowd is going to be as indignant as they have in the past.

There is no reason for it to be in any USPA documentation. It is an FAA medical not a USPA medical. Search Google for "faa class iii medical duration".

That's right. It was at Couch Freaks. They asked me to be one of the "judges". It was judged by looking at the video. Proves you don't need anything too special.

For the big stuff you may need all that. Smaller records need very little. You can tell from the record forms what is needed.

Actually, someone like yourself should go to the USPA web site like I just did, spending maybe 1 minute to fetch this info from the state record form: Initial Records ($35), Includes One Certificate. Additional State Certificates ($10 each) Additional National Certificates ($10 each) Honest question: Do you really think these rates are a "money grab"?

That is a very good question, and I don't know the answer to it. Maybe USPA is just using what record types are already out there already. I guess they can't include every type of record, but that would be a good one to add.

You know, I have thought about that subject myself. Who is going to set those minimums? How much time and money is USPA going to spend doing it? And most importantly, how much time are we going to argue about those minimums on dz.com? Whatever minimum is selected, someone will not like it, and there is the possibility that some minimums might be so difficult to meet that no one will try for a record. Seriously, it is easier and cheaper to not set minimums, even if it creates ridiculous records for a while until they get broken. And I can vouch for Craig Bey. He is a real skydiver that lives in Iowa. Hey, you need a new job so you can goof off posting to dropzone.com during work like we do, using our real names. :)

That does seem a bit ridiculous doesn't it? We load organizers at the (late) WFFC got our registration paid, our jumps comp'ed, and the opportunity to purchase the official WFFC jackets for half price. Some of the best organizers from around the world came to the WFFC at their own expense to participate. We also got the opportunity to jump with our great friends from around the world, (which is what it is really about). People that are our friends to this day. Isn't that enough payment? True story: When I was in charge of the load organizers at the WFFC for years, Danny Page asked about helping. He told me, "Now you know, I normally get $300 per day for doing this?" I said, "I know Danny, but this is the WFFC. We volunteer here." He grumbled, but I know Danny had fun, even if he wasn't a "paid" organizer.

Yes, that is quick and easy, and a reasonable way to do it.

Yes, actually I do, but many people will not like this version of how to do it because it includes Velcro, which many people now think is evil: http://www.pcprg.com/slstow.htm My point is that people should do something. It does not need to be perfect. Often, simply providing elastic of the proper size and strength on the back side of the riser will do.

People! Stow your excess steering line! This weekend I (again) found 2 experienced jumpers that are not stowing their excess steering line, and when asked, they said something like, "Oh, it will be OK." No it won't! It can be deadly, and has contributed to reserve rides and fatalities. I just don't get it. It is so simple to have your rigger put something on your risers to hold the excess. I would do it for free for anyone that brings their gear to my house. Some manufacturers are not providing something easy to use, so people are making excuses. Quit doing that. Fix it.

If you have a choice of several DZs to work and only one of them requires a large investment to look like everyone else, then I think you have answered your own question. If you itemize your tax deductions and they are all larger than the standard deduction, then yes, there will be a tax benefit available. Care to name the DZ?

AJ, good work. Those sources of data are never going to be as complete or accurate as we would like. One guy that I emailed about one of the online files said that they never remove an airport, so that they always have the history. It's still fun and educational to write these programs, and having a graphical representation is good for skydivers. The main challenge is convincing skydivers that these are only forecast winds aloft, not guaranteed!

PIA/manufacturer lobbying. They have been working on the USPA BOD for some time. They succeeded this time. I voted against this change because I believe a DZO should be able to decide the amount of liability they want to assume.

Bored enough to attend a USPA BOD meeting?!!! Starts Friday morning, but you will start seeing skydivers by tomorrow afternoon. Flamingo Las Vegas, 3555 Las Vegas Boulevard South. Complete info on the USPA web site.

I think that there are too many variables in how a parachute is used to predict wear. Mainly, is it used in desert conditions where dirt and sand become embedded in the fabric and lines, or is is used where the jumper lands on grass that looks like a sod farm? Can you point us to that study?

I would really like to see some numbers that confirm that, from the Weight and Balance document from an actual jump plane conversion. On a C182 I converted, I did the weighing of the components added and removed. Some examples, weight is in pounds (not a complete list): Right yoke - 2 Right front seat - 14.5 Back seat - 27 Fairings - 17 Adding the jump step adds more than a few pounds. Changing the door to a jump door may add or subtract weight depending on the door. Plus, some of the replacement items are heavier than the original. The original carpet on the floor is very light, but the big foam mats that we usually install are much heavier. The reinforced rear bulkhead is at least a few pounds more. Changing to a large oil cooler is 4 pounds more. Surprisingly, the entire headliner is only a few pounds. Removing the side interior panels removes some weight, but people usually add something back like carpet. Even if you strip out everything you can, it isn't as much as we think, plus, it is a pretty ugly airplane with things to snag your rig on.

Skydiving Instructor. (I was trying to avoid calling attention to that.)

[Laughing my ass off...] No, I'm not needing to be edgy, and would probably be the last thing that I should ever try to be, even if I needed to. (I'm not looking for a job either. I'm self employed and already have the coolest boss there is.) Your example pictures are good, however, all the people in those pictures actually look quite clean-cut to me. But to me, a person would have to look pretty rough for me to even blink an eye.

Explain something to an old guy, would you? I saw a classified ad that included this: "Can look edgy in appearance but not sloppy." Anybody want to post me some pictures of what "edgy" looks like, because I am really in the dark here. (I seem to recall some ad agency posting an ad here years ago, asking specifically for someone with an edgy appearance, and no one had an examples then.)

Mike, my apologies for suggesting that you are Chris Donovan. Yep, we made an assumption. I see that you have filled out your profile. Thank you! To tell you the truth, I have not cared to comment on the content in any of the posts in the thread. It is just that Mr. Donovan has been such a challenge to deal with lately that I thought that we should challenge him back, thinking that you were him. If you get a chance to read up on some of his posts you will see why some of us have gotten a little sensitive to his posts.

I respect new skydivers a great deal, but it is hard to take someone seriously when they have not filled out their profile. That is one of the local customs on dropzone.com, letting people know who you are.

Seems likely to me...