dreamsville

They didn't have the Beech in '99 when I was there, just the 182. That should help alot! | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

What do we do in the very short term? | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

Don't forget about the 3 or 4 low turn injuries in the last 2 or 3 weeks that I can think of, in addition to the deaths. Those could almost as easily have been deaths, especially the one that I may visit in the hospital ICU this week. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

I have a 150 Stilleto main with a 143 reserve, and the 143 was comfortable to land when I needed it. My other rig with the Stilleto 135 has a 126 reserve which I have not used. I believe the PD126 is probably close to the actual size of the 135 main, but I must confess I don't have the numbers to confirm this. No, I can't see any reason for a smaller reserve other than preferred container size. When I jumped a Saber 170, my reserve was a PD176. Edited to add: when I have had to land a reserve, it was either in the landing area or on a large field, so I have not been tested under a reserve in a tight landing situation. Under my main, I sure have, including dirt road clearings and a ravine with little pine trees all over it. Set it down between 2 little firs (not fun, but no injury or damage). FYI: Wing loading under the 135: 1.41:1. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

Grove City is nice, and seemed very friendly. I don't know if Pittsburgh Skydiving Center in Connellsville in Fayette County is still there, but that's good. Otherwise, I'm a child of turbine DZs, except in the winter if I'm north and the big planes are south. Visit around. The best thing about this is the people. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

The sixth fatality in your list, if I'm thinking about the correct incident (1500 jumps 33yro), also involved a pond swoop into a relatively tight area. While it definitely helps make a valid case, that's a whole 'nother area of risk thrown on top of the wing-loading issue. If I'm correct, it was also a case where the person ignored specific warnings against trying it shortly before the accident. It's hard to help if someone doesn't listen. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

After some more thought, any regs based upon jump numbers might be waiverable (ability to downsize by a certain amount early) with a set course on canopy control to be completed to the satisfaction of the instructor. However, I jump at a larger DZ that might be willing to do this. Well, first, this idea might not work given potential controversy involved in setting the standard for the downsizing. Also, smaller DZs or those who can't afford instructors or find time or people to do this aren't going to benefit. They may feel that this allowance puts them at a disadvantage. Tough decisions. This is a place where we see flaws in arguments, sometimes our own. At least the ideas got exposure. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

Congrats! Is that in Grove City? I jumped there 4 years ago and can recall that part of the landing area had an upward slope to it with trees on part of 2 sides. There was a fence that separated the airport from the DZ. Is it still that way? | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

Did you consider cutting away your main? I know a guy that this happened to and he chopped it. They never found out who packed it. If you pack carefully, you'd probably notice a backwards hook-up easily. I can't help but wonder if someone made a canopy switch with the main still in the D-bag, and so it wasn't detected during packing. Just a thought. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

Everyone will not be pleased with one any system, and there will always be those who will cry "favoritism" or "politics" if exceptions are made to a jump number threshold for wing-loading. So, I am back to favoring a jump number standard that changes as experience increases (as much as I dislike making rules this way). Of course, there are exceptions to this rule where more experienced jumpers will still need or want coaching who are BEYOND the thresholds. Related topic, I believe that students should still be trained on canopies similar to the ones they will be jumping when they complete student status. When I started, we had no Mantas. I was trained on Sabers loaded .9 in the beginning and 1.1 when I finished AFP. I would rather see that than someone making a precipitous downsize once they can buy their own canopy (even if that canopy technically falls within the rules), and then get busted up without the instructor around. I can remember when some thought that training students on Sabers and BOC deployment was ambitious. BTW, I jumped the 1.1 loading (Saber 170 fully loaded out the door) until jump 750. I now jump a Stilleto 135 and 150 and don't swoop aggressively as I want to get more instruction first. From what I have witnessed, there is a lot more that someone with my loading can get out of these canopies than I have asked of them so far, and I'll bet that's true of a lot of jumpers out there. Freefly instructor friends I have jump the Velocity 84's and make it look easy, but then, they spent a lot of practice time to make it look like that. Be safe my friends. This was a great weekend in the air for a lot of us. Let's make it so we can continue to do so and have a better safety record than the one I have been seeing lately. Wing loading 1.41, 1406 jumps. || I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

That's a cool post, except that I don't think you're referring to the act of packing the parachute itself, unless of course the skydive itself is just an excuse to pack. I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

I agree with Ron and Billvon about the wingloading and the potential regulations. I will be sad to see it, but if it happens we will have brought it upon ourselves as a sport. Myself, I load a Stiletto 135 at 1.4. Who knows if someone will make a rule saying that's too ambitious. Not to be naive, but maybe this is the year that DZs make a larger safety issue of this. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

I am inclined to agree that regulation may be coming if we have many more accidents that attract attention. If it happens, I don't know how those regulations will factor in experience. Where I jump, there are a number of excellent canopy pilots whose swoops and landings are a beauty to watch because they have practiced extensively (at least well enough that they're still sound enough to do it). While I would agree that saving lives and serious injuries is more important, I'd hate to see those who have worked hard to really learn to pilot their canopies well suffer. For some, the swoop is the favorite part of the sport. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

I am in the city, flying around amongst the buildings with no parachute at all. I line up next to my building and swoop in, standing upright and gently landing on the ground. It was a great dream, since I didn't have to worry about a gear check: I could fly with no gear. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

I'm not intending to be flip, but from a couple of things I've seen and heard about, we should remind ourselves that sometimes we aren't safe until we are in the hangar. I've seen intentional (they thought they could swoop their buddy and miss, but they didn't miss) and unintentional collisions (not serious) between landed jumpers on the ground and landING jumpers. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

That would be the Hairy Bob video, for anyone else who saw it. Bob sat there watching it as Roger showed it. The reserve was completing its opening near the tree-tops. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

Recognizing that there is a thread elsewhere, I just wanted to mention one thing that may be obvious. The similarity between RW and jumping with a tandem is that you would never fly straight to your person at a high rate of speed but, especially on larger-ways, aim for a point just outside your slot. Then make sure the fall rate is good and come in gently. If you can treat your tandem target like a delicate big way slot you stand a good chance of keeping people safe. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

Well, just require that a potential TSA candidate make one skydive. That'd filter things a bit. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

"because im an inspector for the united states department of gravity. yup, it still works. " I thinks that's imaginative. Also remember that birds sing because they can fly. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

Actually, yes. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

When are you not a whuffo (considered to be a skydiver)? This was a thread some weeks ago that drew some pretty diverse opinions. It was also a very long thread. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

Don't worry so much about knowing what you want to do in skydiving in the very beginning. Learn, try stuff, and keep an open mind. Don't worry about planning anything but the money and just try to be safe. You'll know what you like after you start trying it. After all, at the time of my 3 tandems I didn't know what RW was and probably thought freefly was when a trapped mosquito found its way out of a car window. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

I hate to get off the subject, but I'm lucky enough to have just been places where they have what they say they have (26 DZs). Maybe I missed someone's ad along the way. You have obviously been to places where you showed up and they didn't have the plane(s) (shame shame). Back to the original thread. I don't care for the 1.5 rule either, even though out of luck I sqeak by with a 1.41. My conclusion is that the rule is probably there to stay for the forseeable future, and nothing on this forum will change that. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

A slightly de-arched position with hands a little below the sides, as close to your body as you can stably fly, works well. Toes pointed and head tucked into shoulders looking off to the side(s) even better. When you try it (it requires some pressure to keep it going well, you'll feel it). I think that's part of what RB is talking about. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143

Give more details on this as it develops. Good for him! Interested to see his son's reaction. I'd like to know who in the family will be attending, and see the video. | I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143