TomAiello

And now we play twenty questions... What kind of canopy is it? And do you have five control lines? Are there corresponding burns on the lines? If you can locate the corresponding burns somewhere it may help track down the problem. How do you fold the side folds in on your pack job? Are they separate folds for each bunch of fabric? Or do you wrap them all into one fold? And what kind of container are you using? It could be a problem with a flap twisting the pack job into the lines, or something like that. Anything else about the canopy (multi, secondary inlets)? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

It cost me around $90 to have my zippers retrofitted. If you ever think you might need to do so, you probably ought to just throw down the extra hassle (and little cash) to get them put in in the first place. I'm not sure how much life others are getting out of them (and as a fatso, I put extra strain on my zippers), but mine lasted for about 150 jumps, then they started busting every time I turned around with the suit on. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

When I first started BASE jumping, I asked the same question of one of the camera men at the DZ. He had around 10,000 skydives, and about 400 BASE jumps. His answer: "Well, I'm still swooping." -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I believe that the (co-)owner of TNT (didn't he own it with his brother, the other 'T'?), was Todd Shoebotham. He's now the co-owner of Basic Research. So, in a sense, what "happened" to TNT was that it became Basic Research. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Heck yeah they do. I've wanted a pair of those for a long time (Matter is sold out until their next production run in September). Tough pants with good pockets are a must--and adding the tracking vents makes it even better. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Hi 386: Welcome to the forums. It's good to see you here. You ought to be able to go ahead and use base386@dropzone.com. You can check email via the web interface (click on the top left "Email" button on any forum page. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I've had some correspondence with them about it. If you want, drop me an email and I'll forward you the stuff I've got. They seem pretty heads up, and delivery time is unbelievable (three days). They're at the same DZ as Loic (I'm sure we've all seen his "buzzing the cliff six feet away" video by now), and it's his style of suit, so I'd bet he's working with them, as far as design and testing. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Jim, My point was that you are deeply involved with BR, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. You are one of their primary test jumpers, you essentially get free gear from them (what else can you call it when someone hands you a rig and say "go put 400 jumps on this and let us know how it goes"), and they pay for your BASE trips to "show the BR flag" (your own words). Haven't you also taught first jump courses for them? At any rate, this puts you in a relatively rare, and highly enviable position. You have the inside track on developments in BASE technology. Lots of us appreciate hearing about them from you. All of this is something to be proud of, not to try to deny. When you speak on BR gear, you speak as an authority. This makes your words more, not less, valuable, and makes people more, not less, likely to listen to them. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I don't have a technical knowledge of the aerodynamics, but it appears to me... The inlets on a wingsuit are already on the bottom skin, rather than the leading edge (which is occupied by your arm or leg), and are already in a position roughly equivalent to the secondary inlets on the bottom skin of a BASE canopy (which are placed either just forward of the B line attachments, or midway between the A and B attachments). I'm not sure that anything other than a large one way valve covering most (or all) of the bottom skin of the wing is really going to decrease pressurization time. The only real good way to decrease pressurization time that I've heard is to somehow "preinflate" the wings. Picture a wing shaped balloon insert that you put inside the wing, then inflated prior to launch. That way, the wing would be inflated at time zero. I asked Robi about this a while back, and he pointed out that for deceleration purposes the wing is already expanded at time zero (since you stretch out your arms and legs to pull it taut), and that any additional gains to be made would come at great cost. Specifically, larger inlets would degrade flight performance, and that some kind of preinflation technique would require a complex (hence prone to failure) purge valve to be used prior to parachute deployment. Still, I'd love for someone, somewhere to work it all out, then sell me a suit that starts flying immediately upon launch. Maybe that powered Skyray prototype... -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

If there was a way to encourage faster initial inflation without sacrificing flight characteristics, it would be extremely useful to some folks. Achieving full pressurization even a second sooner (from a zero airspeed launch) would decrease the required vertical distance (to begin flight) by as much as 120 ft (if that's the difference between flight at 4 and 5 seconds, for example). For a superb flyer, who could theoretically begin flying in 3 seconds, an extra second would gain around 60 feet of vertical--meaning that you could launch cliffs that couldn't even be done with normal slider down gear (say 80 vertical feet if you had cajones made of some stainless metal), and outfly them to gain enough vertical drop to open. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

On the subject of vent locations, I believe that the initial BR (two way) vents were well placed to minimize disruption to the canopy's flight characteristics, while still allowing excellent inflation. However, given a one way valve inlet, I believe the (further forward) CR location is probably superior (since it places the valve directly between the first two suspension lines to load, and hence at the likely point of maximum air pressure. Jim, can you tell us if BR ever re-evaluated the location of the vents, subsequent to the introduction of the covers (and hence the change in air flow characteristics of the vents)? And if so, what conclusions were reached (and specifically why BR decided to maintain the same placement that was ideal for a different kind of vent)? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I asked the official USBA arbiter the same question. He said that he'd probably rule it an A, but that he might count it as an E if someone had the gumption to jump it as their qualifying cliff (he doubted very much--and so do I--that someone who had never jumped a cliff or antenna would be flicking a tree). -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Amen to that. My family and I had a long talk about the two latest valley fatalities (JD and FG), and we decided that: 1) In hot pursuit, I'll just stop and hold up my hands--and my Dad will come bail me out of jail. 2) I'll jump my good gear, and if it gets taken, the family will help buy replacements. I realize that most people's families probably aren't this understanding (and most people's Dads probably don't live close enough to just drive up and bail you out), but still, would you rather lose your $2000 rig, or your one-and-only, priceless shot at happiness? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I would think the first thing to do would be to talk to the local BASE jumpers. The truth is that, no, there's not a strong enough community ethic to be self-policing on something like that. I doubt there ever will be. Even if the object was actually owned by a BASE jumper (say, your local BASE manufacturer had purchased it to hold first jump courses off of), there would still be folks out there with just the right amount of spit-in-your-eye, rebel attitude that eventually someone would jump it. For better or worse, that's BASE. Nine times out of ten, I'd say it's for better. In this case, it may be for worse. Now, when's the next time I'm going to be out your way... -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Site naming. Believe it or not. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I can't imagine why they would be. Most of the smoke jumpers in the U.S. work for other government agencies (like the BLM) that have their own lands, which lands they would presumably use for practice. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I've just posted a similar poll in the BASE forum. I wonder if BASE jumpers are attracted by the risk more than skydivers? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Just saw a similar poll in talkback, and was wondering if there is a significant difference in the mentalities of BASE jumpers and skydivers. I realize that the simple yes/no is perhaps a little too simple, but let's see what turns up... -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Just a factoid: The vast majority of rescue time and dollars in Yosemite (and, I imagine most other national parks) is spent on day hikers--not backpackers, climbers, BASE jumpers, hang gliders, or any other "high risk" group. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I'm pretty sure this has never been tested in court. So, really, who knows until it gets there? OK, here's the actual text: The relevant part looks to be: The questions, then is whether such delivery or retrieval must originate and/or terminate within National Park Premises. In the second case (termination of delivery or retrieval), we can clearly see that the intention is for the rule to apply, since the original intention of the drafters was to prohibit parachute supply drops from aircraft. Such drops would, of course, have originated outside park premises, and terminated within them. The first case, however, is not so clear cut. While it could be argued that the intention of the law was to prohibit all delivery or retrieval (whether into or out of the park), I think that would be overbroad. In point of fact, all retrieval from the park was not intended to be (nor is enforced as) prohibited--see the rule allowing seaplanes to land on the surface of the lakes within National Recreation Areas, which are governed by the National Park Service. Then we descend into murky arguments about the intention of the prohibition. During the 1999 Yosemite Protest, NPS staff circulated flyers clearly declaring their belief that the jumpers could create a hazard of falling objects for climbers, hikers, and spectators below, and warning climbers not to attempt the routes under the jump line. This could be a clue that the real concern (and a valid one) of the NPS is the safety of NPS staff and patrons. Hmmm.... Ok, I'm starting to ramble. I'll think about it, but I think the bottom line is that you could make a case either way, and that no one really knows, and no one will really know, until this specific instance goes to court. Although I do know of one exit point that qualifies, I'm not going to invite the NPS to arrest me just so that we can all have a nice little test case. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Two thoughts: 1) I believe that Zennie has some legal background. 2) I'm pretty sure that it's only delivery if you land in the park. I had a long discussion on this point with a couple of (non-ranking, non-legal, just friends) rangers in a well known national park. They had found a cliff exit that was inside the park, but with a landing outside it. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I think this is going to depend on his other attitudes about BASE. Say he's the DZO at a hypothetical dropzone called Sky-Polka. He's a pretty nice guy, he lets me pack my BASE rig on his grass, I enjoy hanging out at his dropzone. When he asks me not to jump his object, I refrain--out of respect for him. Now, let's look at another hypothetical DZO, this one at a dropzone called Hi-Life. This guy is a curmudgeon, he hates BASE, he punishes staff members (by say, making them clean out toilets) who he suspects have gone BASE jumping, he doesn't allow BASE rigs on his dropzone, and he won't let anyone show BASE video. He has even kicked a couple of BASE jumpers off the dropzone, at least partially just because of what they do away from the DZ. I smile for the camera and flick his object in style. Since he's probably already banned me from his DZ, it amuses me to send the video back with some people who will show it there. Hmmm. I know that several BASE jumpers have specifically jumped FAA control towers, just to spite the FAA, because of the historical USPA and FAA attitudes about BASE. I don't think it would matter to me if it was an airport beacon, or a water tower, or whatever, but I'm sure it might matter to some jumpers. Actually, the reasons why I would make the jump (or not) would be exactly the opposite--not because of my self absorption, but because of the attitudes (good or bad) of the DZO/object owner. Betcha I can beat his active measures, given enough time. In short, be nice to me, and I'll respect you. Be a jerk (especially, in this scenario, about BASE), and I'll yank your chain every chance I get, sure as hell. edit: Dexter's point about the altitude is well taken. I probably wouldn't bother with this thing unless it was specifically to spite DZO McNasty. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Hoping that PerFlare will chime in here and tell us all about his Giraffe experiences... -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Um, was that a typo, or are you telling us to avoid YKK zippers because they suck? I'm pretty sure that YKK is the world's largest zipper manufacturer. They make big zippers, little zippers and medium zippers, as well as a bunch of other fastening type products. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com