TomAiello

Here's a rough summary of the instructions I give them: Write a letter to your family explaining that you have died BASE jumping. At a minimum, include: a) the fact that you have died b) a statement that you understood the risks you were taking c) a request that they not try to hold anyone else responsible for your actions d) some explanation of why you wanted to BASE jump, and what you hoped to get out of it I also recommend you include: a) some personal things b) a statement that you love them c) a statement that they shouldn't hold themselves responsible for what you have chosen to do Here's my reasoning for doing this exercise: 1) It acts as my waiver. A handwritten letter explaining that you know the risks (including death) is going to be much stronger in court than a "check off, initial and sign" type waiver. 2) The families of deceased jumpers have tried to sue other jumpers, close objects, and lobby against jumping generally. Hopefully, this will help your family understand, and reduce those types of problems. 3) I want my students to honestly evaluate the risks and rewards of BASE jumping, and weigh them against other things in their lives. BASE jumping is not your entire life, and especially if you have responsibilities (to children, primarily), it is important that you honestly assess the risks and decide that they are really worth the rewards, for you. Those risks include the impact on your family if you are hurt or killed. 4) If someone dies BASE jumping, I want the family to have some kind of communication from them, which can help in the grieving process. I tell them all of this before they write the letter. I've had students who wrote short notes just hitting the points I asked for, but most of them take longer, and write things that are more deeply personal and meaningful. I've also had more than one student openly crying by the time they finished writing. I've never had a student tell me they thought writing this was a waste of their time, though, or that they didn't want to, or that they regretted writing it. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Yes, that's what I had thought. Thanks for clearing that up. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

By this logic, you should never practice your emergency procedures while skydiving, because practicing them will lead you to experience a cutaway. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't make dangers go away--it just makes them blindside you because you aren't watching out for them. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Although that's a reasonable summary, it should be noted that you must apply for a number--it's not just given to everyone--making this an entirely voluntary process. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I suggest you ask this guy. There is no one more qualified than him to give you a complete answer. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I don't think it's really an issue of old v. new. This appears to be an issue that doesn't really split that way. Avery, Jason, Jimmy, Clair--full spread of BASE "ages" there. What about Rick, Nick, myself, and Ether? Again a pretty full spread. I also think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that Jimmy has been BASE jumping for that long. He did one jump a long time ago, then started actually BASE jumping much more recently. He posted the story to this forum, if you want to search for it. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

We've found a pilot chute with a bridle attached. It was discovered by hikers in the canyon and returned to us. Send me a PM if you lost it, telling me the brand and color, and what sort of bridle (1 pin, 2 pin or velcro) and I'll send it back to you. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Some things can be indicative of a lack of attention to detail without being life threatening. It's important to pay attention to those "gentle" reminders, because in BASE, eventually the reminders will stop being gentle. That may be a matter of opinion, in which yours varies from Mac's. You've clearly stated, on numerous occasions, that in your opinion no previous experience is necessary to begin BASE jumping. Given that, I'd say that by your standards, anyone has "enough experience to begin his BASE career." I think that you're misunderstanding the role of the moderator here. It doesn't really matter what the moderators' ideas and opinions are, and it's not necessary that a moderator have any particular opinions, or express any opinions. Moderating the forums is a task that is often unrelated to posting on them. You realize that you're replying to someone who has made two total posts, right? I doubt that this poster has responded "anytime [you] have something to say." Seriously, Jimmy, I've seen you provide well thought out justifications and answers for many of your opinions, even those that are way out of the mainstream. Would you be willing to answer a couple questions for me? 1) What is the negative impact on a student of reading The List? It seems like you think that it's not just unnecessary, it's actually a negative, that somehow hurts the students learning process. Can you explain why you think this? Can you give examples where reviewing The List made a student more likely to be hurt? 2) What happened to "not giving a fuck?" You obviously do care about what the greater BASE community is doing in this case. This really seems to fly in the face of your oft-proclaimed personal philosophy. Can you reconcile this? Is it possible that other people honestly do give a fuck about some of the stuff that you loudly proclaim "HIDGAF" about? Could it be that some of the things you've done, that other people have protested, have actually been things they care about? Can this experience help you put yourself in those other people's shoes, and realize that going through life "not giving a fuck" may not be the most useful philosophy, and that perhaps showing some concern for others points of view might be more productive? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Ease down, there. We can discuss this topic without resorting to calling people names. Remove the 1st and 5th paragraphs of your post, and it would still convey your point quite well, and it wouldn't be nearly so confrontational. Wouldn't that be a better way to make your point? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Interestingly, that exit point is pretty much in Moab. It's about 15 minutes drive to a legal exit. I think that they wanted that specific one for the recognizability, or the name, or something equally logical to filmmakers and equally inscrutable to everyone else. I don't know, but I tend to agree with you. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

If that was true, you'd have seen Tom Cruise BASE jumping in the opening scene of Mission Impossible 2. The free solo scene was a replacement for a planned BASE scene, for which the production company was unable to gain a permit, despite extensive lobbying of the Utah State Parks system. The intended exit point was one of the few in that Parks system that specifically prohibited BASE. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

If I died BASE jumping, I'd want the facts of the incident to be public. I wouldn't mind if my name was attached to them, and I would want to be included on The List. Iif there were video, I'd prefer that BASE jumpers watch it, and try to learn from it. I would not mind in the least if Nick wrote about me after I died. I'm sure that lots of other people would take the opportunity speak their minds about me as well, and there's nothing I can do to prevent that. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Only V2s Ive seen recently are on sale... Wow, we haven't seen a good penis measuring contest in this forum for a while. Can we get some "my daddy can beat up your daddy" next? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Bullshit. There was at one time video of test jumps of these from a building . Don't remember who or where, but it was a lowish building with a PLF landing on the grass. That was hardly a realistic situation, though. The closest I think any of these came to simulating real conditions was probably the test jumps done by real live people on any of a number of the systems (Anne Helliwell landed a HOPE system on the other side of the river here, in the boulders, and I believe Brian Chopin test jumped a system off a bridge in Northern California, as well as the video we've all seen floating around of the PLF into the perfect grassy field). Still, none of those were exactly "real" conditions, and they all involved experienced test jumpers. I'm totally unconvinced that any average office worker would be able to make a good decision about when to jump, and even less convinced about their ability to land uninjured in a real emergency situation (or even in a situation that they thought was a serious emergency, but turned out not to be so bad). -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Actually, if you read this thread there are several people posting who can imagine that much more clearly than you can. Did you read the post by Ms.Sofaking? Do you really think that the level of grief you feel for your friend can approach hers? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Happy Birthday to Harry and Skin! -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

No, but it does apply to buildings under construction, because they are already jumpable. As well as completed buildings like the one you linked. If I don't know if a site is being jumped, don't have time to investigate it's status, or am uncertain, I'm likely to err on the side of caution and just remove the link anyway. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

The Rangers on the ground, and the Search and Rescue teams, already know this. It's the bureaucrats in Washington DC (and a couple in the head offices at individual park units) who need the lesson. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

You forgot "and past the massive turbulence created by the huge fire between the exit point and the ground, the one that blocks the stairs and all other conventional means of escape." -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Here you go. Save a copy now, and keep it updated yourself. It's a lot of work to do something like that, and while I'm grateful Nick has taken on such a thankless task all this time, and I personally wish he was continuing, I understand that it's taken a toll on him in many ways. Each of us is free to continue his work however we like, provided we respect Nick's right to control his original words. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

There is also a condolences thread in the BASE forum here. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Anyone who wants to is free to compile the data, with or without names, and do whatever they like with it, including creating a website. Nick has put significant effort into the words he used on The List, and out of respect for him no one should plagiarize his text, but the underlying facts of the accidents, as well as identifying details and biographical information, are all in the public domain. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Skydivingfatalities.info Dropzone.com Fatalities Database -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I wanted to also say, in regards to the "other sports don't have a list" comments from some in this thread: Accidents in North American Mountaineering is compiled and printed by the American Alpine Club and distributed to their entire membership each year. It is also available for purchase at numerous stores, including your local REI. The United States Parachute Association compiles and prints accident reports in every issue of their official publication Parachutist, which is distributed to the entire membership of the organization. The United States Hangliding and Paragliding Association, maintains an accident database on it's official web site. The National Transportation Safety Board maintains a database of aviation accidents, as does the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. The argument that "no one else keeps a list" is fairly difficult to sustain in the face of a few quick Google searches. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

That's your interpretation. It's also possible that they were actually trying to convince her to slow down (and make a couple skydives) before getting into BASE, or that they thought her approach was likely to result in problems, and wanted to dissuade her. In many ways, reading an actual list of names, with photos and background, brings the reality home in a way that a few simple sentences never could. It also provides some historical and cultural referents that are difficult to obtain in other ways. Let me turn the question on it's head: Why did you, Jimmy, think that it was a problem that people asked Clair to read the list? Do you think that BASE students generally ought to be steered away from such information? Does this mean that you have finally found something that in fact, you honestly do give a fuck about? While that sounds flippant, the point I'm trying to make is that you have spent years promoting your "Honestly I Don't Give A Fuck" philosophy. Why has it abandoned you (or perhaps you have abandoned it) now? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com