BruceSmith

Here's an excerpt on Larry. I thought it deserved to be here. As for the piece on Jo, I'll keep the juicy gossip stuff closer to home. ******************** The Legacy of Larry Carr Although the best DNA evidence that seems to be available at this time is from a very suspect sample, it does advance the Hunt for DB Cooper. Responding to this technological crack in the case, a young special agent from Minnesota named Larry Carr, who was trained as a bank fraud investigator, asked to be assigned to Seattle as the Norjak case agent. Surprisingly, not many FBI agents wanted the job as it entails investigating lots of long shots under the harsh glare of intense public attention, but with the new tools of the resurgence Carr wanted to take a shot at solving the Cooper case. Plus, his rugged good-looks and obvious charisma allowed him to thrive in front of the cameras. As a result, he was rewarded with a transfer to the Seattle office in 2007. There, he reinvigorated the Cooper investigation with his dedication to a new vision for the FBI – working with the public in an active partnership. Larry launched the new relationship with a superb gesture: he shared heretofore unreleased information, specifically the presence of the clip-on tie, and he was a regular commentator on the DZ. Carr didn’t form the DropZone site, but he definitely got it up to highway speed. His posts as “Ckret” gave the chat room an unprecedented air of authority, and it attracted the cream of the cop of Cooper sleuths in Cyber World. In fact, I have immense respect for Larry despite our bumpy relationship, reflected by my response one night to a Carr posting on the DZ. I forget exactly what Larry said, but I remember that the post was notated “4 am” in his sign-on, and I said to myself. “Larry can’t sleep either, tonight. DB Cooper is keeping us both up.” From September 2007 until December 2009, Larry posted often and in depth. Highlights of his contributions include the abovementioned revelation that the cigarette buts are missing. In addition, he clarified details of the parachutes delivered to Cooper, identifying the one Cooper didn’t use as a Steinthal 26’ canopy, model 60-9707, apparently packed inside a Pioneer container. But he added more confusion as he accepted Earl Cossey’s pronouncement that DB Cooper used a 28” canopy stuffed into a modified NB 6 container. From this declaration comes other questionable statements regarding DB Cooper’s parachuting skills, siding with parachute rigger that Cooper picked an inferior chute when he rejected the Pioneer/Steinthal. Carr confirmed that parachute rigger Earl Cossey had significantly modified the chute Cooper is believed to have used - a military emergency parachute known as an NB 6 - thus making it difficult to deploy. This begs the question of why a master rigger would engineer a parachute designed to be a pilot’s safety rig and make it more difficult to use. Oddly, Cossey enclosed instruction for Cooper, which Carr confirms, making the whole scenario bizarre. Compounding this, Cossey now refutes the notion that an NB 6 was used, claiming that it was an NB 8. These issues are replete with other controversies and will be discussed in greater detail in the parachute chapter. Nevertheless, Larry also told us pieces of information that reveal how extensive the Bureau’s investigation actually was, saying that the starboard seats of Row 18 were taken out of the airplane and sent to DC for further analysis. Also, some intriguing tidbits were shared, such as the fact that Tina was interviewed by the FBI both in Reno and Philadelphia, which is where she lived as a kid before moving to Minneapolis. In addition, Larry told us that 60 sets of fingerprints were recovered from Flight 305, but their identities are far from complete. However, SAC Russ Calame writes in his book that the total number of fingerprints retrieved is much less and are highly suspect. Carr also showed us some of the complexities of Cooper, revealing that the skyjacker thought the aft stairs were deployed via a mechanism in the cockpit, which suggests that he was not familiar with civilian usage of the 727. Larry also vacillated on some of his perspectives on the case, especially concerning whether Cooper jumped over the Washougal Basin and lost some of his money there. Carr frequently supported that notion, following with the idea that the $5,800 then floated down the Washougal River to the Columbia, taking eight years to reach Tina’s Bar. But he defended the Victor-23 flight path over Ariel, Washington, as well. Further, he also posited that Cooper may have jumped over Orchard, Washington, near Battleground. Larry also provided specific details, such as wind speeds and directions throughout the air column of Cooper’s drop zone, such as winds at 7,000 feet at 20 knots at 225 degrees, and 15 knots from 235 degrees at ground level. Larry stated often that he did not think DB Cooper survived the jump In his many video presentations Larry generally declared that Cooper was an inexperienced skydiver who knew enough to put himself into serious danger. Specifically, Carr speculated that Cooper tumbled and panicked immediately after leaving the aircraft due to the cold and his lack of proper clothing, and most likely cratered into the ground as a no-pull, or hopelessly tangled in his chute lines. Perhaps Larry’s most famous description of the above scenario was presented in the National Geographic documentary titeld: The Skyjacker Who Got Away, which aired in the summer of 2009. In the film, Larry and Tom Kaye shared the perspective that Cooper and all of his stuff, including the money crashed into the Lewis River drainage – most likely the river itself – and then washed down to the Columbia. There, the Cooper bundle became ensnared on a propeller shaft of a freighter going up river, which eventually separated DB’s remains from the $5,800 and deposited the latter six miles upstream at Tina’s Bar. However, Larry did acknowledge that Cooper had some parachuting prowess, generally accepting the notion that Cooper did have some basic familiarity with parachutes and 727s, and had enough skills to at least think he could make the jump successfully. Carr speculated that Cooper developed his limited but specific knowledge in a unique setting – aboard the cargo planes of South East Asia. Carr expressed this belief on the FBI’s Cooper web page, saying that Cooper was most probably an Air Force veteran, perhaps a “kicker” on air drops, such as were performed by the CIA’s Air America crews over Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and Vietnam. As a kicker, Cooper would have pushed cargo loads out the rear doors of a C-47 during mid-air drops while wearing an emergency parachute, most likely an NB 8 or something similar. Hence, Larry said, when Cooper was preparing to depart Flight 305 it’s reasonable to assume that he picked a parachute akin to one he knew. In addition, Carr popularized a unique aspect of the modern Cooper case – the Dan Cooper comic books. At this point it's important to remember that the skyjacker identified himself to the ticket manager in Portland as "Dan Cooper," not DB Cooper, which was an appellation given to him by a mistaken journalist named Clyde Jabin in the early hours of the case. The Dan Cooper series was an action comic popular in the 1950s and 60s. They were written in French and published only in French-speaking Europe and Quebec, Canada. They are utterly unknown in the United States. The comics describe the exploits of a Royal Canadian Air Force commando named Dan Cooper, who skydives into action to make the world safe for democracy. The existence of the comics were first discovered by an individual on the DZ named “Snowmman” and originally posted in 2009. Hence, Larry Carr gathered something very valuable for his investigation from civilian sources, too. Carr speculated that since the comics are written in French and unknown in the United States, they might have been discovered by an American airman stationed in the French-speaking parts of Belgium, particularly Brussels, which is also where NATO is headquartered. Thus, Carr speculated that his USAF cargo kicker spoke French, had quite possibly been stationed in the environs of Brussels, and at least got his non de guerre from the comics – or even derived the inspiration for the skyjacking. In addition, Vietnam and Cambodia were once French colonies, and a French patois was widely spoken in SE Asia when the United States military arrived in the 1960s. This provides yet one more connection to French-speaking, comic book loving, adventure seeking American cargo kickers. So, did DB Cooper have any knowledge of the comic book action hero? Was his signatore a talisman? An inside joke? Why not? Or, rather, pourquoi, pas? Sadly, after his ignoble presentation of the Propeller Theory on the National Geographic documentary - and endless ribbing on the DZ - Larry was relieved of his position as Cooper case agent by early 2010 and reportedly promoted and shipped to FBI headquarters in DC. When he left Seattle, Larry also stopped posting on the DZ, although I believe he still follows the case. I have sent him a “personal message” on the DZ – a wonderful little feature of the web site that provides secured communications between individuals – and although Larry did respond to my “PM” he wouldn’t engage in a conversation. Further, a “SA Carr” has posted on the Mountain News-WA, my online news magainze, but again does not engage in any follow-up emails. Nevertheless, one of Carr’s most lasting contributions to the DB Cooper case may be his Internet-based network of citizen sleuths. Drawing from his contacts on the DZ in 2007, Carr formed a Citizens Research Group, an eclectic team of scientists and sleuths. They’ve re-examined the evidence and visited the topography of the case, applying modern technology in innovative ways - such as using electron spectroscopy to assay mineral and biological deposits on the recovered money. The leader of the Citizens Sleuths, as they are currently known, is Tom Kaye, who was Larry’s side-kick on the Propeller Theory. However Kaye has publicly distanced himself from that infamous hypothesis. However, the contributions of the Citizen Sleuths are extensive and will be more full examined in the following chapter.

Hi Everyone, I have posted my latest chapter on DB Cooper, which is an in-depth look at the resurgence, examining the impact of the Internet, open-sourced sleuthing, and the legacy of Larry Carr. I also profile Jo in depth, which has earned me a 4,000 word rebuttal from her, and you can only imagine the angry phone message! (Ah, our Jo,,,smile.) ` The clicky thingy is dingy... [url]http://themountainnewswa.net/2013/02/15/the-hunt-for-db-cooper-an-in-depth-look-at-the-resurgence-to-solve-americas-most-mysterious-skyjacking/#more-6450[url/]

Yea! You bet your boopy I am madder than a wet hen in fact more like a rabid wolf and MY fanges are getting read to show! NO GUNS, NO WORDS, NO THREATS will stop me - NOT now! YOU won't even know I am there until I sink my fangs into your throat! I won't make if quick and fast - You will be tortured for a long time before the KILL! You Will be Exposed for what U are. Quote Oh, c'mon Jo, how do you really feel?

My condolences, Robert. I'm glad you posted - I think this forum should have the room to share the comings and goings of people we care about. On a personal note, I enjoy your narratives. The wacky camping trips, and your fondness for your Subaru, I'd like to hear more. What was it like to be on the set for the History Channel? Also, did you ever find out what the story is with that guy you interviewed in Ariel who identified himself as Eric Sloan and then walked inside and became Dave Paul? I get pretty cranky when journalists start changing names on me as he did - my note-taking is messy enough. BTW: Good Sam cardiac in Puyallup is where I got my stent. Tell the gang I say hi, and God Bless.

Would anyone like to claim authorship of these letters? They were posted on the Mountain News a year ago and since then I have been endeavoring to learn who wrote them. They're intriguing. The first one is from someone who signed in as "Agent Dueces." I have long wondered if the "Mr. N" is Special Agent Ron Nichols and the "Mr. G" is Special Agent Don Glasser. The Second Letter is from someone who called himself "nichols." Letter Number One: Agent Deuces commented on DB Cooper - 40th Anniversary celebrations include first-ever professional symposium on America's only unsolved skyjacking "Mr. Smith: You are a terrific journalist and we await your new book. We think you will set the tone straight, without all of the egomaniacal activities of other so-called journalists, one in particular. A point to make, we understand that Ralph Himmelsbach (retired) did not attend the Portland or Ariel events. This is unfortunate, as we were hoping that YOU would interview him. Your earlier assertion was correct, that he never interviewed Tina Mucklow. We know this for a fact, as we worked the NORJAK case from Seattle FO, the office of origin for the case. Apparently, Mr. Himmelsbach still knows better to stay away from these kind of media-driven events. We are sure that he was warned again, even though he is in advanced years. Keep up, Mr. Smith. you're on the right track. Sincerely, Mr. N and Mr. G. Letter Number Two: nichols says: November 30, 2011 at 1:45 am (Edit) bruce, forget about being in competition with blevins. there isn’t any. he’s neurotic and facing little man syndrome. i’ve seen the DZ and its VERY evident. this so-called expert in everything who goes by 377 enjoys the roost. he knows nothing about db cooper. he’s just in the game to cause disharmony. that’s evident too. we know dormuth. no such thing that blevins states about mr. dormuth is true. dormuth is one of us and YOU are on the right path with the witness. keep digging. the truth will be shocking and its not coming from the DZ. you’re closer than you think. g’night.

This is the third letter I have sent out this week and it is addressed to John Detlor, one of the key agents who worked the Norjak case from the very beginning. He worked closely with the initial Norjak case agent Charlie Farrell, who died several years ago. Although John was conversent with me initially, he is currently unresponsive to my phone calls and emails. He seems to be one of those agents who falls into the category of "One and Done," meaning that I speak to them once and then they decline all further contact. John said he would try to help me contact the Farrell family, but I have not heard from them at all. Greetings John, I haven't heard from anyone in the Farrell family. Alas. Also, I haven't been able to hear anything directly from Ron Nichols or Don Glasser. Nevertheless, I have some questions about the Seattle FO and Norjak that I was hoping you might be able to shed some light upon: 1. Were you or anyone from Seattle involved in the Reno evidence retrieval? 2. Do you know why the tie got to Seattle four days after the other physical evidence? 3. Do you know why the cigarette butts never went to Seattle but apparently stayed in Las Vegas FO, as reported by Larry Carr? 4. Numerous agents on the money retrieval at Tina's Bar in 1980 report finding money shards and placing them in plastic baggies. Yet, no shards or baggies are in the evidentiary collection in the Seattle FO. Do you know where they are? Are they in Portland FO? 5. How would you describe the working relationship between Ralph Himmelsbach in Portland and the Norjak agents in Seattle FO? Did Himmelsbach and the Portland FO maintain any Norjak evidence there, and not send it to Seattle? 6. Himmelsbach never talked with Tina Mucklow, the primary witness, despite the money being found at a place called Tina's Bar at a time when Tina lived about fifteen miles away in Gresham, Oregon. Tina is reported to have had a nervous breakdown shortly thereafter, and was sequestered in a Carmelite monastery by April 1970. Did any agents from Seattle investigate this occurrence? If not, why not? If so, what were their determinations? 7. Did you ever interview Tina? Did Charlie? Can you report any findings of those conversations? 8. Russ Calame, the SAC Salt Lake City, has written that the Seattle FO strongly believed that McCoy was involved in the Cooper skyjacking. Do you? If so, how was McCoy involved? 9. Larry Carr says that the Seattle FO reversed its original position on McCoy's alibi, and now believes that McCoy was at home in Provo, Utah at the time of the Cooper skyjacking despite multiple pieces of hard evidence from Calame's team that McCoy was in Las Vegas during the Thanksgiving holiday and prior. Do you know why this reversal took place? Do you support it? 10. Calame also reports in his book that the agents that were involved in the evidence retrieval in Reno seemed to be operating "under the influence of a post-hypnotic suggestions" when investigator and co-author Bernie Rhodes interviewed them in the mid-1980s. Was this allegation ever investigated? Do you know what findings may have been uncovered? Thanks, Bruce (360) 832-6248 Pacific Time

QuoteGreetings everyone, I have spent much of the past month endeavoring to learn the truth of Norjak as understood by the FBI agents who worked the case. In that time I have grown weary and angry at the endless stonewalling, silence and spin. Hence, I am taking a more direct approach. What follows here and in posts to come is an "Open Letter" format. These posts come on the heels of multiple letters that I have sent the agents, visits to their homes, and emails or phone calls to their trusted associates. This is the second letter and it is addressed to Ron Nichols, the Cooper case agent in Seattle from 1977 until his retirement. Greetings Ron, I was hoping you could shed some light on a few Norjak questions that have arisen. Thanks, Bruce A. Smith (360) 832-6248 Pacific Time 1. Cigarette Butts Apparently the eight cigarette butts retrieved at Reno went to Las Vegas FO and stayed there. Do you know why? Was there any attempt to recover them after they went missing? 2. Other Evidence Other evidence was possibly not kept in Seattle, such as the money fragments found by Himmelsbach and his team in 1980 at Tina’s Bar. Why is this? Many money shards were retrieved by federal agents at Tina’s Bar, confirmed by numerous sources such as Special Agents McPheters and Schreuder, but none of it is in Seattle. Do you know where it all is? Are the money shards at the Portland FO? Do you know of any other evidence kept outside of Seattle? 3. Money Find When did you learn that Norjak money had been discovered at Tina’s Bar? Did you visit the site, or send any agents from Seattle to assist in the retrieval? 4. Ingram Family Law Suit What is your perspective on the law suit brought by the Ingram family to maintain custody of the money found by Brian in February 1980? Were you satisfied with the court’s ruling? 5. Analysis of the Money Much has been said about the recent efforts by the Citizen Sleuths group to ascertain where the money resided until discovery. Did your office conduct any similar forensic analysis of the money? What kind of technology did you use? Electron microscopes? Electron spectroscopy? Did you look for chemical and biological residues? Evidence of pollen, diatoms, and other natural life forms? What were your findings? 6. Tina Mucklow What is your perspective on the relationship between Tina Mucklow and the money find at Tina’s Bar? Do you see any connection or meaning to the money being found fifteen miles from Tina’s home in Gresham in February 1980, or her rumored nervous breakdown that followed during that time period, and then her sequestering in the Carmelite monastery by April, 1980? 7. Richard McCoy Russ Calame, the Salt Lake City SAC in April 1972 has written extensively about the relationship of Richard McCoy to the Norjak case. Further, Calame has told me that he had daily conversations with the Seattle FO about McCoy. What is your opinion of McCoy’s involvement in Norjak? How do you evaluate the physical evidence that Calame has presented that indicates McCoy was not at home on Thanksgiving, 1971, and was in fact in Las Vegas? Do you know when – and why – the Seattle FO reversed its position on this matter? They now claim that McCoy was at home in Provo, Utah during the Cooper skyjacking. 8. Reno What is your analysis of the evidence retrieval in Reno? Calame says it was botched. Further, he writes in his book that when his co-author Bernie Rhodes interviewed the agents from the recovery team they seemed to be “under the influence of a post-hypnotic suggestion.” 9. Clip-on Tie Do you know why the clip-on tie entered the evidentiary collection in Seattle FO four days late?

Greetings everyone, I have spent much of the past month endeavoring to learn the truth of Norjak as understood by the FBI agents who worked the case. In that time I have grown weary and angry at the endless stonewalling, silence and spin. Hence, I am taking a more direct approach. What follows here and in posts to come is an "Open Letter" format. These posts come on the heels of multiple letters that I have sent the agents, visits to their homes, and emails or phone calls to their trusted associates. The first is addressed to Special Agent Ralph Himmelsbach: Greetings Ralph, I was hoping you could shed some light on a few Norjak questions that have arisen. Thanks, Bruce A. Smith (360) 832-6248, Pacific Time 1. Money Shards at Tina’s Bar Several agents, most notably Mike McPheters and Dorwin Schreuder, have told me that they found many money fragments at Tina’s Bar during the retrieval in February 1980. They further said that they put them in plastic baggies. You describe corroborating information in your book, as well. But where are they? Several people, such as Brian Ingram, Carol Abraczinskas, and Tom Kaye of the Citizen Sleuths have told me that the money shards and baggies are not in the evidence collection in Seattle. Do you know where this evidence is? Were they stored in the Portland FO? If so, why? Was this common practice? 2. Other Evidence I understand that other Norjak evidence was maintained separately outside of the Seattle FO, such as the cigarette butts being held in the Las Vegas FO, and the tie was outside of Seattle for a period of time in a place unknown to me. Did you keep any Norjak evidence in the Portland FO? Or along similar lines, did you maintain separate Norjak files and records of suspects and findings? In general, can you tell me how your work was integrated into the efforts managed from Seattle? 3. Relationship between the Portland and Seattle FOs Similarly, what was the nature of your relationship with Seattle, and specifically, Ron Nichols and Charlie Farrell? For instance, when did you inform Seattle of the money find at Tina’s Bar? Did Nichols come to the dig? Did he send agents from Seattle? What was Seattle’s role in the money retrieval, if any? 4. Tina Muckow and the Money Find I understand from Jerry Thomas that you never spoke with or interviewed Tina Muckow, even when the money was found at a place called “Tina’s Bar,” which is located about fifteen miles from Mucklow’s then-current home in Gresham, Oregon. Further, Ms. Mucklow is rumored to have suffered a nervous breakdown during this time period, and subsequently in April 1972 was sequestered in the Carmelite monastery for the next twelve years even though she "never really fit in" according to reports from the Mother Superior. What is your perspective on all of this? Why didn’t these developments warrant a call to your primary witness?

Bruce, No one is really basking in Tucson this weekend. A cold wave passed through yesterday morning, the night time temperatures are below freezing, and the outer portions of Tucson had snow yesterday. But it still beats the New England area. Robert99 YIKES!

QuoteQuoteHurricane Sandy and the intensive storms along the East Coast make me wonder if the North Atlantic current is still actually RUNNING... Quote Does anybody know the current status of the North Atlantic Current? The last I heard a couple years ago it was reduced about 40%. Guess I could Google it, too.....

Glad your family is OK Bruce. I heard NJ Gov. Christie giving storm survival advice. He advised residents to go home, relax and have a drink. Is he a natural born leader or what? 377 Now that Governor CC is BFF with the Boss, I'm inclined to follow him anywhere, metaphorically. Glad Barry O could make that bromance happen. Storm Update: Sis got power back within three hours. Two feet just south of Bahstahn...another day at the office, so to speak. She's very proud of her three-handled roof-rake to get snow off the roof so it doesn't leak. Such are her priorities today. Not exactly sure now the rake actually works, but it's apparently nifty. Mom had a foot. The Ex still baskin' in Tucson.

While we take a pause to get all lovey-dovey with each other for a bit - which I support completely - I'd like to share a little family news from Sandy Land, aka New York. The snow storm may not be the biggest storm of the century as the New York Times was reporting today, but it's a doozy. Sis is up in Boston, about 20 miles away from the Pligrim Nuclear facility in Plymouth. The NY Times is reporting that Pilgrim had an "external event" at 9:17 pm this evening and power was lost to over 500,000 homes, including my sister's. A foot of snow's on the ground she says, and the wind is howling. She's expecting two feet by tomorrow. Everything shut down in Massachusetts today - the Guv ordered all roads to be cleared this afternoon. Gas lines were crazy yesterday, but everyone lived. Mom on LI is okay at last report, but is anxious. She talked my ear off this afternoon as the rain was changing over to snow from rain. My cousin on Staten Island is warm and cozy, and watching the snow fall down. About a foot on the ground. NYC plows are out and plowing the streets. My ex is soaking up the sun at her brother's in Tucson, going back early next week to supervise all snow shoveling that the teenagers in the NY family should have down over the weekend... Things sound okay for my people. But, Gawd bless all those who are out in it, tonight.

Bruce, You refer to an "interphone" radio. The interphone isn't a radio. It's a wired intercom connecting the cabin to the cockpit. 377 Okay. Will correct.

Thanks, Smoke - getting questions like this is why I post my drafts here - to help refine them. Here's what I have: 1. Bennies are specifically mentioned in Skyjack, and Tosaw says that DB C had "pills" to keep the crew awake. 2. Watch? Hmmmm. I gotta go look for that one. 3. Cloth briefcase. Gotta go look for that one, too. But I think I read about it on the DZ first. 4. Small paper sack. The reference is proably in the same file with # 2 & 3. 5. Use of the word "interphone" is specifically mentioned in Tosaw and Gray. 6. Yes, the method of deploying the aft stairs seems to be unknown to Cooper, which is in stark contrast to what he did know. It is as if he was a commando familiar with jumping out of a 727 but not with preparing the ship for the operation. 1. I'm going with Bennies. 2. Can't find anything on the watch, so I'm dropping it. 3. Sack is from Ckret and a DZ post a few years back. 4. Cloth briefcase is still up for grabs, so to speak... 5. Inability to open aft stairs is noted and included in latest draft. 6. Staying with interphone and airstairs. Thanks to all. -BAS

Again I like the overview, but I'm curious where some of your non-attributed points came from. It will take more time than I have right now to go line by line, but some of this - including very specific items that he addressed from the fbi files -- is contradicted by what ckret has posted in the past. Off the top of my head, (memory here, so I might be wrong) states no one mentioned a watch, don't think the briefcase was referred to a "Cloth" briefcase, small paper sack (not sure if color was ever mentioned), use of the word interphone - I thought that was never actually found in the files - can't remember if that changed, no evidence that he had any communication about the positioning of the fuel trucks. There was only one note that he wrote and that was the initial one, Like I said I could be wrong - I'll have to look some of the stuff up, but it always come back to what/who to believe. Some of ckret's posts were his theory based on what was in the files, but also a lot of stuff, so he said, came directly from the files. Never heard about the bennies eta: from ckret that I remember Thanks, Smoke - getting questions like this is why I post my drafts here - to help refine them. Here's what I have: 1. Bennies are specifically mentioned in Skyjack, and Tosaw says that DB C had "pills" to keep the crew awake. 2. Watch? Hmmmm. I gotta go look for that one. 3. Cloth briefcase. Gotta go look for that one, too. But I think I read about it on the DZ first. 4. Small paper sack. The reference is proably in the same file with # 2 & 3. 5. Use of the word "interphone" is specifically mentioned in Tosaw and Gray. 6. Yes, the method of deploying the aft stairs seems to be unknown to Cooper, which is in stark contrast to what he did know. It is as if he was a commando familiar with jumping out of a 727 but not with preparing the ship for the operation.

......The smokes were lost during the time of the McCoy arguments long before Duane Weber ever became a suspect.... Go back in time and you will know the smokes disappeared BEFORE Weber ever became a suspect! Can you tell me exactly how this is known, Jo. Thanks. Further, when were the cigarettes lost? Where were they lost, and who lost them?

I'm working up a profile on the physical characteristics of DB Cooper, and some behavioral ones. If I've left anything out, please let me know - thanks. The Hunt, Chapter 4.4, Who was DB Cooper? Here is what we know about DB Cooper: First, we know for sure that his name was not DB Cooper, since the initials were a result of a misunderstanding between a reporter and a Portland police detective. The man known to us as DB Cooper, however, introduced himself to the NWO ticket counter as “Dan Cooper,” and that is the name that the ticket agent, Dennis Lysine, wrote on the skyjacker’s boarding pass. The man calling himself Dan Cooper was a male Caucasian in his mid-to-late 40s, or possibly even early 50s, which is very old to be conducting rigorous – and inventive - criminal activity. Cooper was wearing a dark brown or black suit, white shirt and thin clip-on black tie. Over this he wore a lightweight black raincoat. He wore loafers or some kind of slip-on shoe that might have come to his ankles. He may have been wearing a set of thermal underwear beneath his business attire. The detailed physical descriptions given by the passengers vary, but there is a general consistency in their accounts: Cooper’s hair was dark brown or black and short, and parted on the left side. It may have been wavy in the manner that is called “marcelled.” He was identified as having “dark, piercing eyes,” that flight attendant Florence Schaffner declared were brown. He may have had a square jaw, or a saggy chin. He was about six-foot tall or maybe six-one. Some fellow passengers thought he might have been five-ten. Cooper was trim and was estimated to be about 175 pounds. He also had an olive complexion, leading some to believe that he might have been of Mediterranean heritage. He also carried a cloth-like brief case and toted a brown paper bag, also reported to be a burlap sack. We later learned that he had a pair of wrap-around sunglasses and a knife of some kind that he used to cut parachute cords. He wore no hat. The ticket agent said Cooper stood off by himself in the passenger waiting area, staring out the window until the boarding call was issued for Flight 305. In general, Cooper looked and acted like a business man heading home for the Thanksgiving holiday. But he did attract some attention, and NWO gate agent Hal Williams reported that one of 305’s passengers stood out from the rest – a guy dressed all in black and who looked like a “lone wolf,” according to Geoffrey Gray in Skyjack. Cooper spoke with no discernible accent, leading some to believe that he might have been raised in the Midwest. He had no visible tattoos, scars or distinguishing anatomical features that are known publicly. However, it is rumored that the FBI knows of a small scar on Cooper’s hand that it has not revealed to the public. However, he smoked Raleigh cigarettes, and left eight aboard the plane. The flight attendants said that his fingers were discolored from the tobacco smoke, suggesting that he was a heavy smoker. Further, he wore no rings or any jewelry, but he wore a watch. Cooper drank a Bourbon and water during the two and one-half hour wait over Sea-Tac. Himmelsbach describes Cooper's behavior as desperate and crude, but the flight attendants describe Cooper as mostly calm and thoughtful – a “gentleman” one recalled. Cooper used a noteworthy colloquial expression, “funny stuff.” During the refueling of the craft he warned the crew not to attempt any “funny stuff or I’ll do the job.” Cooper was very knowledgeable of the plane and possibly parachuting: He knew the requirements for flying a 727 so that a parachute jump would be successful. That was classified information in 1971. He was familiar with avionic terminology, and properly identified the intercom radio as an “interphone,” and the stairway used by airlines to load passengers on the runway as an “airstairs.” His use of a bomb was considered by the FBI to be a “game changer,” and thwarted any effort to rush him from different directions. His choice of destinations – “Mexico City or anywhere in Mexico” – is widely believed to be astute, as it put him in the air corridor known as Victor 23 and over predictable terrain. Cooper’s insistence that the fuel trucks be positioned to the port side of the plane gave him optimum visibility of events outside the plane. His choice of seat 18 E was also optimal for monitoring events in the plane during the hijacking. Similarly, his crowd control was successful, and he had the passengers in the rear of the aircraft moved forward without incident. His use of the flight attendants as couriers kept the cockpit crew at a distance, and minimized his exposure to eye witnesses. Cooper wisely demanded the return of all of his notes. He even pocketed an empty paper match cover he had used from the ashtray. Cooper also demonstrated a familiarity with the area, noting that McChord Air Base was only 20 minutes from Sea-Tac, and correctly identified the lights of Tacoma from the air as they circled Sea-Tac. Cooper also insisted that meals be brought aboard for the crew, even though they never ate them, and according to Bill Rataczak the German Shepherds brought aboard in Reno to search for the bomb ate the food before doing any sniffing. Cooper also brought several tablets of Benzedrine to keep the crew alert.

Hi 377, To the best of your knowledge (or anybody else), were the cigarette butts lost before they arrived at Quantico to be DNA tested or after they were tested and sent back to the evidence box in Seattle? Vicki I recall Larry Carr posting here saying that the cigarette butts were already lost when he requested Las Vegas FO to send them to him in Seattle for further evaluation in about 2007. I remember being surprised that they were in Las Vegas and not Seattle, and when I asked Jerry Thomas about this oddity, he was quite lackadaisical about it. I think Las Vegas got involved because the head of the retrieval team in Reno was the SAC from Las Vegas, according to Calame and Rhodes.

My current understanding - from piecing together bits here and there - is that the cigarette butts were lost shortly after they were analyzed for DNA, somewhere in the 2002-2003 time period. Pat Forman has told me that she and Ron clearly remember a 2002 TV news reporter on Seattle TV discussing the DNA findings gained from the cigs. Hence, the bigger question is where is the DNA report, now.

I just posted this on the Mountain News, but since many of the members of the Citizen Sleuths post here I thought I'd share it on the DZ as well. The Hunt, Chapter 6.1, The Citizen Sleuths, 2. 2. 13 The Citizen Sleuths (CS) are a group of scientists and Norjak experts brought together by Special Agent Larry Carr early in his tenure as the Cooper case agent. It was perhaps the most visible expression of his vision to solve the case by enlisting the assistance of the public. Carr hoped a team of citizen volunteers could be a parallel investigatory arm coupled to the resources he had at the FBI, and under his supervision they would provide the Bureau with lots of free – and perhaps innovative - sleuthing. The group has been known by a few names, such as the Citizen Sleuth Team and the Cooper Research Group, but now it calls itself simply, “Citizen Sleuths.” Although Carr has left the case the CS are still working, and gave major presentations at the 2011 DB Cooper Symposium in Portland on a variety of findings. The CS have fulfilled much of Carr’s vision for them, especially furthering the investigation of the money and clip-on tie. However, they also triggered some unintended consequences for the FBI that have proved very troubling. But first, a personality profile of the sleuths: Tom Kaye is the leader, and is a self-taught scientist with many interests and skills. Despite his lack of a college degree, Tom is an accomplished paleontologist with many publishing credits, and has worked as a contract researcher on digs for the University of Washington’s Burke Museum. He is also an inventor, and reportedly made millions developing paint ball guns. Tom was recommended to Larry Carr by a fellow scientist named Jerry W., a university professor who wishes to maintain some privacy; hence I am withholding his last name. Tom lives in Arizona, and is generally responsive to email queries about his Norjak work. Carol Abraczinskas is known affectionately as “Abracadabra,” and is both a professor and science illustrator at the University of Chicago. She is also a leading investigator into the connection between DB Cooper and the “Dan Cooper” comics popular in French-speaking Europe in the 1950s and 1960s. This odd piece of evidence was first brought to light by Snowmman at the DZ, and then championed by Larry Carr. After Carr left the case, Carol seems to have picked up the mantle of discovery, and she delivered an overview of the subject at the 2011 Symposium. Alan Stone is a metallurgist, and a key scientist working on the CS team, especially in the electron spectroscopy experiments that were conducted on the tie and money. Alan works at a private metallurgical research firm in Illinois. In addition, the CS expanded in 2009 to include associate members for a field trip to the Columbia River Basin, where they conducted experiments at Tina’s Bar and explored the Washougal watershed. This latter group includes Jerry Thomas and the fellow who found the money three decades ago, Brian Ingram. In addition, the CS were accompanied by an in-house FBI journalist from Washington, DC who would like to remain anonymous, but whose initials are BF. Also, Geoffrey Gray is mentioned by the Oregonian newspaper as participating in the group’s activities, and in Skyjack Gray discusses his experiences with the CS, especially his encounter with one of Jerry’s wayward kids in the hills above the Washougal River. Apparently, Tom Kaye is more than just a leader of a group of volunteers, but someone dedicated to a new and bold investigation. Jerry Thomas told me that Kaye funded a large part of the Citizen Sleuths activities at the Columbia, paying for himself, Abraczinskas, Thomas, Ingram and Stone, while the FBI paid for Carr and BF. Presumably, Geoffrey Gray paid his own way. Findings of the CS: To begin, the CS spent two major periods of time perusing the FBI evidence – first in 2009 under Larry Carr’s tutelage and then in August 2011 under the administration of Curtis Eng. Access to certain personal files was denied to the CS, such as those developed during the investigation of suspects. Although little physical evidence has been found overall in Norjak, which makes the case intriguing, what the FBI actually has on file in its evidence room is still modest, with the CS reporting that the evidentiary collection is “sparse.” Nevertheless, the CS examined a variety of physical evidence and focused primarily on two items – the money and the clip-tie. They asked some refreshing questions. In particular, could the bills tell the story of where they had been via microscopic analysis of the diatoms and other chemical residues imbedded in the bills? The answer to that question has been inconclusive, but certainly the CS raised the big red flag of why some of the bills are so discolored. In fact, a few bills are virtually black in color. Why? As part of a microscopic analysis they found the bills have curiously large amounts of silver impregnated in the fibers. The two clues – the blackening and the silver residues - seem to be connected. At present, the CS say the discoloration is due to the silver nitrate compounds used by the Bureau to test the bills for fingerprints. But, one would think that would be obvious to a seasoned FBI agent, and a blackened bill wouldn’t need any separate analysis - which begs a second question, why was anyone asking the first question? So far, none of these issues have been resolved. During the several days this larger group spent on the water, they examined the floatability of the money bundles, measured the slopes of the river bank and compared aerial photos, and analyzed the shoreline sediments. The CS also made ancillary inquiries; in particular to the manufacturer of the rubber bands wrapped around the three bundles of twenties found by Brian Ingram. Tom Kaye says that they were able to find the original manufacturers of the rubber bands, who informed the CS that the bands would only last in the wild for three or four months. Yet, according to Brian the bands were intact when he picked the bundles out of the sand, but crumbled soon afterwards. “So this is in conflict with the idea that they (the bills) would be rolling down the river for seven years,” Kaye told a reporter from KGW-TV in Portland. It also raises the question of where the bundles were between the skyjacking in 1971 and their discovery in 1980. However, Kaye has acknowledged that the rubber bands might have been preserved much longer if buried in the sand. How much longer is still unresolved. Also, the CS put a few 20s under microscopes, looking first at the biological residues and the curious little holes found puncturing the bills. The CS was hoping that they might be able to find traces of “diatoms,” small aquatic creatures that live in all the waterways of the Columbia Basin. Kaye told me that the diatoms could function like a biochemical fingerprint, leaving unique signatures that reflect individual bodies of water – replete with their own mineral and biological characteristics. It was a very ambitious and thoughtful endeavor. However, it didn’t seem to reveal much information. “We didn’t see any diatoms on the money,” Kaye wrote me in September 2009. Nevertheless, Pat Forman has told me that Tom Kaye had told her the money had mineral residues on it indicating it had spent some time in a damp environment south of the Columbia River, in the areas of northern Oregon. Pat felt this validated her belief that Barb had stashed the money for several years in an agricultural cistern in Woodburn, Oregon. However, I have not found any corroboration on this claim. My relationship with Tom Kaye is uneven, as the CS “goes black” with frequency. This means the members of the CS do not communicate with any media for long periods of time. The question of what Kaye told Pat Forman – or what mineral markers have been detected, if any - has not been answered, falling regrettably into this black hole of silence. Nevertheless, Kaye did post on the DZ in 2011 that he thought the money did not float to Tina’s Bar. One reason he gave was that the bills seemed to have been stacked for a long period of time, almost compressing them together. “The money we examined was sort of adhered to the other bills in the stack and when they were separated, in some places a stock of bill chunks came with a single bill. You could see that the bills were all lined up one below the other when they were buried.” In contrast, Kaye said that his floatability survey indicated that bundles of money “fan out” when immersed in the water. Fortunately, I have found Tom to be quite chatty in person, and the CS have established a comprehensive web site to discuss their work, sharing the following important finding: “…the money…fragments recovered from Tina’s Bar were examined. Contrary to popular reports, there were only a few fragments in plastic boxes and no indication that there was a quantity of fragments found or any information on exactly where they were recovered.” (Italics are mine). So where are the money shards that have received so much attention? The feds aren’t saying, and my queries to the Bureau on this matter are met with variations of boilerplate spin such as “…Norjak is still an open case and the FBI does not comment on its on-going investigations.” Stonewall. Moving on, the clip-on tie has revealed significant findings. The tie was examined twice by the CS. In 2009, they report that they took many “sticky tape” and “stub samples” for a scanning electron microscope. Initially, they were looking for pollen spores and chemical residues. During the second visit in 2011, the tie was “thoroughly sampled using a variety of techniques including ultra violet (UV) laser florescence and forensic vacuum for high density particle collection.” The CS found significant amounts of pollen on the tie, saying that spores of Club Moss, common in herbal remedies and homeopathic medicines, were “prevalent.” Conversely, no pollen residues from other plants were found, which was a disappointment since the CS had hoped to get geographical markers from this line of investigation. Perhaps more telling was the CS discovery of titanium fragments on the tie, suggesting that the tie – and most probably DB Cooper – had ben exposed to metal filings sometime shortly before the skyjacking. Titanium is an uncommon metal. In 1971 it was used mostly in airplane manufacturing as it is lightweight and strong, and currently, titanium is also used in golf club fabrication and paints. Nationwide there are about half-dozen foundries that produce titanium in the form that was found on the tie. Did Cooper work in any of them? Or could DB Cooper have been an engineer at Boeing, or some kind of tie-wearing technician at a shop working with titanium? In addition, the CS found other bits of metal, such as two microscopic spiral shards of aluminum, which may have come from a drill bit. The CS also found traces of stainless steel and magnesium, plus exotic metals like bismuth. As a result, the CS feel that Cooper may have worked or visited a highly specialized metal fabrication plant before his skyjacking. Despite the assortment of metal shards the CS focused primarily on the titanium. “Of all the particles examined on the tie, the titanium particles were the most distinctive,” the CS reports at http://www.citizensleuths.com/pollen.html . In 1971, titanium was considered a “strategic” metal used primarily in military aircraft and some civilian aircraft, possibly the mock-ups of the SST, the Super-Sonic Transport being developed by Boeing at their Renton, Washington facility. Further, the shards found on Cooper’s tie were pure titanium and not an alloy. Importantly, titanium alloys were more common in the manufacturing of civilian airplanes, so Cooper’s exposure to pure titanium places him in some very specialized environments, perhaps one of the titanium manufacturing plants in the United States. Alan Stone, at the 2011 Symposium said that in 1971 there were six sites that could be considered as a place Cooper might have visited – four are in the United States, and one each in the UK and Japan. In addition, Russian processes some raw titanium sand. The titanium foundry in Albany, Oregon known as the Oregon Metallurgical Corporation, or Oremet, is one candidate. However, Bob Sailshaw, a retired Boeing engineer, has reported in the DZ that pieces of titanium alloy and pure titanium were available in scrap tote-boxes in the alley ways of the 9-101 building at the Development Center in Seattle next to the main floor shop where many things were developed and tested for use on the SST airplane. Sail wrote to me and said: “A person looking through a tote-box could have easily picked up small machining and dust particles on their tie as it hung down into the tote-box while scrounging for free items. That lab had experimented with flame-spraying metal, even pure titanium, on leading edge parts for high temperature protection. Sheridan Peterson (a prime suspect) worked in the ‘Manuals and Handbooks Group’ that had office space in the same building on the 2nd floor and right above the research lab in the late 1960's.” Kaye seems to have vacillated about where Cooper might have picked up the titanium and initially I thought he had suggested the SST program at Boeing, but later when I asked him to clarify this issue at the Portland Symposium he told me explicitly that it was not Boeing. “The only connection of pure titanium to SST manufacturing at Boeing was the fact that when Boeing scrapped the SST project it collapsed the titanium industry,” he said wryly. But Sail strongly refutes Kaye’s perspective: “Boeing was working with all forms of titanium in the experimental shop, including pure titanium to flame-spray on leading edge components. Pure titanium does not have the strength of alloyed titanium, but has better high-temperature characteristics. I think Boeing was possibly the only place the tie could have got the pure titanium machining particles. Kaye's ‘not Boeing’ is just a bad conclusion.” Sadly, my efforts to clarify this perspective with the CS have fallen back into the black hole of “we’re not talking to anyone at this time.” One element that can be clarified is Geoffrey Gray’s contention that the titanium found on the tie was a raw form of titanium called “titanium sponge.” Kaye has widely refuted that claim, saying Geoffrey jumped the gun as the CS were in the early stages of examining their discovery, ultimately realizing that the initial findings may have been a false reading coming from match-head residues of chlorine and sulfur coupled with molecules of pure titanium. One important finding of the CS is what they didn’t see - they never examined the Amboy chute, found in 2009. This is confounding as I have not spoken substantively with anyone who has, or knows where it is, or even knows definitely where it was found. This conundrum will be further explored in the chapter on the parachutes. Other problems were created by the presence of the CS themselves. The CS were apparently were left unsupervised in the evidence room in Seattle, although Alan Stone said at the Portland Symposium in 2011 that Larry Carr was present with them in 2009. However, none of the pictures taken of the CS include Carr, which is odd considering that Larry loved media attention. As a result, the evidence may be considered now to be legally compromised. More disturbing is the disassembling of the tie as described in Gray’s book, Skyjack, where the CS decided to pull the tie apart and look at its fibers more closely under an electron microscope. Were they authorized to man-handled the evidence like this? Equally problematic is the question of how the members of the CS were selected. Could anyone be part of the group? What qualified the members that were chosen? What happened to the notion of “equal access” for all citizens? Why can’t I review the evidence like the CS did, and ultimately, why not you, dear reader? The activities of the CS left the Bureau vulnerable to legal challenges from journalists and the general public. Also, the knowledge gained by the CS couldn’t be controlled by the Bureau. The CS functioned separately and had independent access to media. Frankly, the members of the CS were more forthcoming than anyone in the FBI, and I learned volumes about the money find by talking to members of the CS for five minutes at the end of dinner in Portland. They had nothing to hide, and they didn’t. Lastly, did the FBI really fail to conduct a microscopic investigation of the tie and money? Certainly the FBI has electron microscopes and spectrographic instrumentation – I know my biology department at Hofstra University had some in 1971. So, it’s hard to believe that the feds didn’t conduct some kind of analysis akin to the CS. But if they didn’t, why not? And if they did, where are their findings? This raises the question of whether the Citizen Sleuths are truly that, or are they actors in a Kabuki Theater production staged for more pernicious political reasons?

I would by lying if I didn't say your review is enjoyable. One tries. But you left out Orange-1 who definitely earned a spot in your review. She kept us all sane for many years and made many valuable- perceptive posts, and still may! You left out Sluggo! His contributions and vast know- ledge continue to be irreplaceable and we are less for his taking a rest. Sluggo came back in December to inform us he is :still alive:! I personally wish he was still here. Sluggo was always a backbone of reason. I personally could say the same for Farflung. And, you left out yourself. You have made vital contributions here, which have literally held this forum together at times. We all know your interest in this case is sincere and deep, if problematic at times. Keep up the good work, Bruce. It is more than any other DB Cooper forum has ever achieved, and that's just a fact. Quote I was tempted to mention Orange1 specifically, but everytime I thought of her I remembered her comments about my encounters with Tina. The image-slash-fantasy that then arose for me is Orange pushing me out of an airplane sans NB 8 (or anything ressembling one) shouting: THAT's FOR TINA! I also have a second flight of fancy, of Orange burning me at a stake, ala the Salem witch trials. Whew... As for Sluggo, he gets special mention with his web site "n67us." Yup, Sluggo is a biggie. EVicki also has a special place in my, um, heart...

Well, folks, here is my view of what goes on here. Chapter 21 in my current draft. The Hunt, Chapter 21 The DZ, 1. 25. 13 The Drop Zone, or more simply “the DZ,” is perhaps the best known online site for discussion on the DB Cooper case. More precisely, http://www.dropzone.com/ is an all-inclusive parachuting web site that hosts dozens of chat rooms, and the salon for DB Cooper is only one of many. Yet, the Cooper “forum,” as it is called in DZ parlance, is the most popular place on the Internet to exchange opinions, theories, and information on Norjak. I’ve learned lots on the DZ, and grew as a journalist by posting much of my early writings on Cooper. As harsh as some of the feedback has been, it has also been critical to my understanding the case. In addition, I learned how the case has affected people psychologically, and I’ve uncovered a dynamic that I call the Cooper Vortex – the pull of self-righteous attitudes that make some smart people do very foolish things. This dimension of the DZ renders it like a “Biker Bar” in cyber space. It can be a vicious and cruel place – it’s certainly not for the timid or thin-skinned. The insults can be venomous and constant. At the very least, the disagreements can be pointed as treasured beliefs, suspects or hypotheses are fiercely defended or attacked. As a result, I have learned to be squeaky clean in my presentation of Cooper findings. Further, my note-taking during interviews has improved and my critical thinking has sharpened. Lazy or sloppy investigators get hammered on the DZ, and they don’t stick around too long. With all the name-calling, put-downs and trash talking that arise, the DZ requires the services of a moderator, a fellow named “Quade.” He issues admonishments to the worst perpetrators of bad behavior; some take the hint and quiet themselves. Others don’t, and get banned from any further postings. Yet, the DZ can also be as warm as the neighborhood tavern featured in the TV sitcom, “Friends.” At times, I have luxuriated on the DZ, reading someone’s post about a charming Cooper World encounter, or waft off on a tangential musing about women, the wilderness, or some quirky factoid that makes the DZ feel down-right cozy and comfortable. Relationships have formed at the DZ, and I cherish some of mine. Others are simply endured. Thousands of people from around the world read the DZ daily, with about a dozen individuals posting frequently. Many more simply come and go after delivering a pet theory or asking a burning question. Since its inception in 2007, there are about 250,000 commentaries that have accumulated on the 1,000-plus pages of text. Most of what Cooper material I publish on my own site, the Mountain News-WA, I link at the DZ and I see a sizeable spike of readership on my website that I attribute to DZ aficionados drifting over for more Norjak news. Perhaps the most noted contributor to the DZ has been FBI agent Larry Carr. Using the moniker “Ckret,” Carr posted regularly on the DZ throughout the early part of his tenure as Cooper case agent, (2007-2009), and his commentaries have given a welcomed confirmation to many details of the case. In fact, I have validated more information on Cooper from Carr’s posting on the DZ than I have from talking to Carr directly - or any other FBI agent. As a result, the DropZone has been a vital place of informational exchange for me, and as nasty as some people are, I take a deep breath and persevere so that I don’t miss the goodies. Since the DZ is so personality-driven, I think it may be useful to illumine the many players of the DZ. Besides Larry Carr, Jo Weber is arguably the most dynamic figure on the DZ. She is certainly the most prolific poster, championing the Cooper-ship of her deceased husband, Duane Weber. Jo posts thousands of words every day, and has something to say on just about every aspect of Norjak. One of the skills I have learned by reading the DZ is how to skim Jo’s postings while still gleaning enough information to get a general sense of what she is up to. Some visitors to the DZ easily dismiss Jo as a crank, but she is clearly a solid researcher. She was the first to discover where Tina Mucklow resides, and she continues to have some kind of relationship with Jane Mucklow Dormuth, as evidence by her lengthy phone calls to her. Jo also has an appreciation of the depth and breath of issues that might be affecting the Cooper investigation, such as the role that MKULTRA may have played, or covert military operations in Southeast Asia. When I first began corresponding with Jo she talked extensively to me about JM WAVE, the largest covert operations base on US soil run by the CIA. Prior, I had never heard of JM WAVE, and still have only a foggy idea of what goes on there. One of those who has long-suffered the rants of Jo is Georger. Georger is a smart guy who often gets cranky himself. In fact, Georger is a professor at a mid-western university and has unusual ties to Norjak – both familial and professional. Occasionally, Georger makes reference to his FBI connections, which seem to be substantive if not fully revealed in their exact nature. Georger was Larry Carr’s first choice to head the Citizens’ Sleuth Team, which Georger declined. In turn, Georger recommended that Carr contact a paleontologist named Tom Kaye, who is renown for digging up T-Rex bones in the Inter-Mountain west of the United States. Tom posts occasionally at the DZ, usually in response to a CST flap. Kaye’s work with Carr on the CST has been very productive and original, even if they cooked-up the Propeller Theory together (see Titanium and the CST, and The Money Find chapters). Galen Cook has a wonderful description of Georger: “He likes to cast himself as a ‘backdoor observer’ of the case, but he knows far more than he leads others to believe. And his knowledge of the case is vast. Yet, he remains a silent player in the investigation and prefers, it seems, to engage others in the boisterous ‘DropZone’ site, where he can be as nasty as he is allowed to be.” Perhaps the King of Attitude is Snowmman, who has been banned for life starting in 2011. Certainly Snow has been one of the smartest guys at the DZ, and is the undisputed expert on all things cyber. Snow summed-up his knowledge this way: “You have to remember, Bruce, I read the entire Internet every night.” Somedays it seems as if Snowmman has. Snowmman has also been an invaluable aid to me in discovering the contact information on many individuals connected to the case. Without Snow, my research on Sheridan Peterson, Ted Braden, Dorwin Schreuder and many others would be greatly reduced or non-existent. Jerry Thomas is one of those DZ contributors who comes and goes, which isn’t a problem for those of us who appreciate proper grammar and precise spelling. In his defense, JT says he hasn’t figured out how to use his spell checker. (That’s what he says, honestly!?) Regardless, Jerry is one of the leading antagonists in the war of words with Jo Weber. In addition, Jerry is a long-time student of the case and is a beloved side-kick to Ralph Himmelsbach. JT also enjoys an elevated relationship with the FBI and has had access to Curtis Eng and others. JT also served on the CST, and is featured in Geoffrey Gray’s book, Skyjack- The Hunt for DB Cooper. Over the past year or two, one of the voices heard most often at the DZ is that of author Robert Blevins. Robert champions Kenny Christiansen as Cooper, which is the sole focus of his book, Into the Blast - The True Story of DB Cooper. Through his pronouncements on the DZ, Robert has also found a way to infuriate just about everyone at the forum and in the larger Norjak investigation. Nevertheless, he regularly attends the Cooper Daze festival in Ariel, asking questions of attendees and making a video record of the Cooper phenomena. 377. The regal voice of sanity at the DZ is an attorney from the Bay Area who sports the moniker, “377,” which is the signage for his favorite Boeing aircraft. 377 is an avid sky diver and a dogged Norjak researcher. His findings on the use of the 727 as a jump platform is singular, as is his analysis of NB 8 parachutes and the optimum method of exiting a 727 at 200 mph. 377 is also a buddy of Snowmman, and together they form a solid team of Cooper sleuths. Thank Gawd at least one of them is a gentleman. Smokin99 is another voice of reason. She is also a solid researcher and has helped me locate individuals via back-door channels. Another woman posting on the DZ is Amazon. She is an exceptionally accomplished skydiver and offers fact-based commentaries on Cooper’s jump. Amazon has no patience whatsoever with the forum’s fools, and I think she would smile to know that I call her, privately, One Tough Broad. Robert99, McShutter, Farflung, Hangdiver, SafecrackingPlF, and Meyer Louie and many others have all been informative and reasonable. Sadly, Meyer lost his cool one night and got kicked-out in 2012. Same, too, for Galen Cook back in 2009.

Are you saying Geoff Gray has Agent Farrell’s case history ? That he was given it? I have to seriously question your judgement including RobertMBlevins esq. in your list! What's the basis for that ? Scientology? Radios? Moon dust? Quote Shocked? He wrote a book. Yes, Geoffrey probably has a copy of the Farrell work. Geoff showed parts of it, at least photos, in a power point presentation at the Portland Symposium. Geoff has plenty of stuff, such as transcripts on the parachutes - remember that I stole stuff from him that he had stolen from the FBI via a link posted here on the DZ! Geoff also had copies of the hand-written notes taken in the cockpit and gave copies of his copies to others, and now I have copies of copies of ciopies.

As I compose my book on DB Cooper, I have found it useful to develop a list of "who's who" in the investigation. I was surpirsed how lenghty it is. It's now posted on the Mountain News. Again, the clicky is not working. Sigh ` [url]http://themountainnewswa.net/2013/01/27/the-hunt-for-db-cooper-whos-who-in-the-db-cooper-investigation/[url/]

Not that I believe squat that BK utters.... but let me introduce you to the Western Interior Seaway. Quote Thanks, Amazon, I had never heard of the Western Interior Seaway. Fascinating.