BruceSmith

****************************************** [b]So, Jo, I gather from what you say that you engaged in a classified and confidential communication with a high-level government official who gave you Tina's home address and phone number. Is that correct?

Reply: I can see the possible relief for Tina in knowing exactly who DB Cooper was, and if he is alive or dead. But nobody seems to be doing that. Jo hasn't shown a pix of Duane to Tina, nor has she visited with Tina. Yet, she is in extensive contact with Tina and the Mucklow family, and apparently, high-level officials in the Norjak investigation. If the FBI is showing pix of Duane to Tina, and presumably Bill Mitchell too, then why would the Robbie Clampett character need to do an end-run around the official Norjak inquiry? This suggests to me that Jo is more than just the widow of a DB Cooper suspect, and in fact may be an agent for the government in trying to spin the Cooper story by having Duane be perceived as the skyjacker. Why the government would want a fake Cooper is unknown, but they seemed to do just that in pushing for Marla and her Uncle LD in 2011. Same story, different gal. Such a scenario suggests that there are multiple - and wholly separate - divisions within the FBI working on Norjak. First, you have the basic slog unit in Seattle trying to find DB Cooper in the usual manner. This would be Larry Carr, Curtis Eng, etc. Then you have the spin-meisters devloping faux-Coopers, such as Duane Weber and LD Cooper. This group would include the Robbie Clampett guy and Jo. Even Geoff and Marla, too Plus, you have the independents, such as Jeremy Blauser, who worked the case out of the LA office in 2008. I sense he was some kind of free-lancer keeping tabs on all the players, or was a white hat G-man assisting a real, but unsanctioned, internal FBI inquiry.

Reply: At least we have a few lawyers around, 377. So many law suits, so little time. Sigh. BTW, do you think Jo is trying to make me shut up with all of her threats of law suits, visits from the Sheriff, and beseeching Quade for assistance? Little ole Jo? Why wouldn't she just call one of her high-level government official friends to put some real muscle on the situation? But then, who would she call at midnight? Any volunteers out there in DZ LAND?

Jo, it’s a new week, so let’s recap where we are. 1. A high-level government official contacted you via email using the moniker “Robbie Clampett.” He gave you Tina’s phone number and home address around 2004. 2. You, in turn, called him, and even though he never confirmed that he was Robbie Clampett, he knew who you were, which generally confirmed in your mind that you were speaking to the guy who gave you Tina’s contact information. 3. The high-level guy later died, and you then spoke with his brother, who also did not confirm the high-level official as Robbie Clampett, but the brother knew who you were so their identities were assured in your view. Now, we have some new questions for you in a new week: 1. How did you know how to contact the high-level government official? If he didn’t confirm his identity as Robbie Clampett, then I presume you didn’t just reply to his Robbie Clampett email. 2. Hence, you know the name of the high-level official and how to contact him. 3. The same goes for the brother. Who are these guys? 4. Why did a high-level official who knew Tina’s contact information give it to you, the widow of a Norjak suspect? That seems very risky behavior for an investigator, perhaps even illegal. Continuing, I understand that Tina has emailed you and called you on the phone. Lee Dormuth says that you had a lengthy phone conversation with his wife, Jane Mucklow Dormuth, the evening before I chatted with him in Shelton. Hence, why are the primary witness to the DB Cooper skyjacking and her sister engaging the widow of the guy who threatened to blow up Flight 305? If Tina is in a fragile mental or physical state, wouldn’t such contact be ill-advised? Further, why, in your estimation is such contact less intrusive or less problematic for Tina than my calling her and asking what happened? Lastly, was Duane ever a DB Cooper suspect prior to your presentation of the confession and subsequent investigatory activities, starting circa 1995? I have never heard of any interest in Duane from the books written on Norjak prior to 1995. There’s zip on Duane from Tosaw, Himmelsbach, or Calame and Rhodes. How do you account for this? Lastly, lastly, have you called Lee Dormuth yet to confirm that he thinks you’re the widow of DB Cooper? If not, why not. I would think that after 18 years of searching for answers you wouldn’t waste another minute!

Reply: I disagree, Jo. I truly believes the truth shall make us free. In fact, I believe that the truth will help us heal. Tina clearly needs healing. The question is how to best assist her. I thank you for helping me find her, and I think these truth sessions we're having these days will eventually prove healing to Tina, and helpful in solving Norjak. Justice is worth striving for.

Reply, How do you know that I don't know shit about Tina Mucklow, Robert? I have written extensively about Tina, and have spoken to more of her relatives, friends, and colleagues than anyone I know, with the possible exception of Galen. So, who do you think knows "shit" about Tina? You? Yes, of course there is Jo, as she has mysterious access to Norjak principals that is the main topic of interest here these days.

Reply: Actually, Robert, I learned quite a bit from speaking with Tina at her home in August 2011, and then again over the phone a few weeks ago. How she "rejects" me is very telling, and it is clear to me the woman is under a great deal of stress that gets triggered by any mention of Norjak. In fact, as far as I can tell, I know Tina better than anyone else in the journalistic community, and perhaps better than anyone who posts here who is not an insider like Jo.

Reply: Why not reveal his name to others besides the FBI? I see no compelling reason to keep his name unknown. Don't you want us to understand the mystery of why Robbie Clampett gave you Tina's contact information when she had been in hiding for thirty years? If you want to keep us in the dark, why? The FBI is very happy to keep us in the dark, Jo, so why are you helping them obfuscate Norjak?

Reply: Okay, so we're getting somewhere. Now we need you to tell us why a High Level government official would need you to contact Tina. Presumably, they would be able to do that as well, along with pix of Duane. If this "Robbie Clampett" is deceased, what's the problem in letting us now who is was, and we can corroborate your story from there. It also begs the question - if you knew where Tina was, why didn't you visit her and show her a pix of Duane?

Reply: Why not? Because you don't like me? What about the other 500 people who view this site? What about the 40,000 people who read the Mountain News the day I posted Galen's pix of Tina. Remember, we wouldn't have gotten those pix without your help. So get off your high horse, babes. Time to get real.

] Reply: And we're still looking for an answer, Jo. Who gave you Tina's contact information? Also, why do you doubt that Lee Dormuth told me that DB Cooper was your husband? If you really think it was just a slip o' his tongue, why don't you call him? Lee says you are quite chatty with his wife. I would think that after 18 years on the hunt, you'd want to call! Also,, what's it like being an insider in Norjak. As you know, guys like me never get invited to dinner. Heck, Himms didn't even offer me a cup o' tea.

Reply: Another possibility is that you are on someone's pay roll and provided plenty of benefits and cash to your family. Maybe Duane traded up when he married you and got himself a real slick con artist? Hiding in plain sight, Jo? BTW: How can you write the last passage on Duane until you tell us how you got the phone number for Tina? That's like Shakespeare forgetting to write: "And they lived happily ever after." Jo, do you really think I'm going to let you off the hook on this Tina phone number thing?

Reply: Why not Jo? This sounds like very important information to the Norjak investigation. Who gave you Tina's contact information and why? Intentionally witholding information in the Norjak case makes you a suspect in my view. In fact, I think you're a bigger con artist than Duane ever was. You appear to be an insider in the Norjak investigation. The question is why and what your full role is.

IF any thing YOU WROTE IN ANY book contradicts what I said in this thread regarding Duane's trip to the hospital and what transpired up until is death is convoluted in any way - to reflect other than was was intended - YOU WILL PAY DE GAL! YOU will NEVER EVER GET A BOOK published unless it is say FICTION. I won't read your FRICKING book - all I want to know is IF what you wrote is ACCURATE regarding Myself and anything I have said. THEREfore send me a text with only what refers to me. Remember if the story about the trip to the hospital as told it in this thread by me has been change to REFLECT YOUR obtuse point of VIEW in your book - you WILL be charged, There will be nothing to GAIN other than the FACT there was a legal action against you for FRAUD and SLANDER in some of the incidents. WE are all in agreement on this - YOU will be publically humiliated and made to clean up what is YOUR opinion and not FACT. THIS mean removing any your statements of "personal opinion" from the book regarding individuals and subject matter already publically stated in this thread and other media sources. YOU WILL not be allowed to profit or gain notoriety by twisting words and interviews of any person. You will be served papers regarding this matter in a few wks. The trail in 1979 - since I do NOT know exacly what you are referencing regarding the stops Duane and I made I cannot state. You did go back to the area with me and encase you didn't already KNOW! MEN on the GROUND! Okay, Jo, so you're going to sue me. Do I have that correct? But the bigger question is how you got Tina Mucklow's phone number and address, and why somebody gave it to you. You infer you couldn't source the identity of the tipster but you have an idea who it might be. So, please tell us who it was and why they gave you this information. Thanks. As for the law suit, you'll have to get in line behind Blevs; he was first. Somebody else wants to sue me, but I forget who. Sigh, I should take better notes regarding my legal difficulties... BTW: Are you going to sue me first or Galen? I understand you want to sue him, too. I told him that a few days ago and he asked me: "Why the hell does she want to do that? What have I done?" I'll look forward to chatting with your attorney. Perhaps we can take a deposition from you and find out who gave you Tina's contact information and get you to declare exactly when and where you first heard about DB Cooper. You are pretty wishy-washy about that tidbit. Just saying. See you in court, sweetie.

WOW!. Somebody gave you Tina's phone number and address? Yikes! Who and Why? Ball's back in your court, sweetie.

Reply: Jo, Lee Dormuth told me that you were married to the skyjacker, DB Cooper. Why isn't that enough for you? What do you want, Jo. Satelitte trucks on your curb? A ticker-tape parade down the road to the Ariel tavern? Plus, Himmelsbach invited you to dinner at his place in Woodburn. Free, no less. Doesn't sound too shabby to me, Jo.

Thanks for the etiquette lesson, Robert, and the mentorshhip on robust, professional journalism. But need I remind you, you are the guy who prints "The Truth of DB Cooper" on the cover of his book, right underneath the rectangular, ram-air parachute descending in broad daylight and under sunny skies? If you got your own house in order, first, Robert, I might be more inclined to listen to your unsolicited advice. As for your comment that "no one is trying to discredit your work," Robert, are you crazy? That is what you, Jo and Georger are trying to do. Either you are stupid, Robert, or have great faith in the power of the Big Lie.

I never offered Tina anything. I show her the respect she is due and will continue to do so. I did NOT show up on her door. I did NOT harass her Sister & Bother-in-law. I have not made repetitive phone calls or followed her with a camera. I was successful for several yrs keeping her location Secret & her phone number private. What you & Galen did was a complete violation of her rights. She did NOT ask to be on that plane or to be thrust into the public eye. She was a 22 yrs old in 1971. Have you FOR ONE MOMENT thought about the woman & have you shown her one ounce of respect. You invaded her privacy like you were a WRITER for a SMUT magazine. You say untrue things about her because your own mind is twisted. That can be proven by some of the things you have written. All you want to do is expose her & destroy what is left of her life. Tina did NOT deserve the treatment you or other have thrust upon her. YOU intruded into her life & exposed her to the public in a slanderous way. She has tried to be polite. You kept on PUSHING & you take anything you can find about her life and making it sound pathectic. YOU BRUCE SMITH are the ONE who is pathetic. You BRUCE Smith are the one with the mental problems & low self esteme & personality problems. YOU respect no one. Tina is strong and she leads a good life, but look at your own life. WHAT DO YOU have to SHOW for yourself? Nothing! Should I tell the thread about HOW you live? Should I humiliate you in public? You are ABRASIVE and you don't care about who you hurt to get what you want! Even Blevins with all of his supposed subjections about Tina - is respectful. He hasn't put himself in her FACE and invaded her privacy I have offered Tina nothing - I gave her privacy which was PROTECTED for many yrs...until Vultures like you and Galen obtained her information. I feel responsible for that, but someone would have done it someday. Why did it have to be someone whose only objectivity was to EXPLOIT her with the things you have written - with absolutely NO proof and MOST important - FOR WHAT PURPOSE? You have persecuted this woman to no end on paper and in person. No wonder she hides away. Now you subjectively are claiming she was disfunctional and institutionalized because of Cooper. YOU RESPECT NO ONE IN THE COOPER CASE - YOU USE PEOPLE AND YOU EXPLOIT PEOPLE....this will come back to HAUNT you! You know you do not have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of - so you say whatever it is you want to say to sensationalize everything you write. I hope you are PROUD of yourself. Frankly I think you are one sick lab rat. Since you aren't loveable - you certainly aren't a puppy! Reply: What I find so interesting about you and Tina, Jo, is that you were the first researcher I know to find her. So, who is the "Robbbie Clampertt" person who gave you an anonymous email that led you to Tina's county of divorce and then to her home in Oregon? How come you were contacted in such a fashion? Instead of blasting me, why not tell us about you and your connections, eh? So, who wanted you to find Tina Mucklow back in , what, 2004? Who is Robbie Clampertt? Who needs us to find Tina? Who does Clampertt work for, and why? Further, why does Jane Mucklow Dormuth take your phone calls and linger on the phone with you "all evening," as Lee jokingly said the last time we hung out on his front stoop. Jo, you are often a loud and obnoxious woman, but you are deeply connected to the principals in the case. But who is it that assist you to obtain such entry, and why? That is still a mystery to me. Perhaps one day you will enlighten us. In the meantime, it seems you are fully engaged in your job here at the DZ to discredit me and my work, and in general cause a ruckus, generating a smokescreen that obscures so much in the case. So, the ball's in your court, Jo. Tell us the truth of you and the Mucklows. Or maybe we will discover the truth of you in other ways. Hmmm? Either way, you are under suspicion. Something is not right with you and your extraordinary relationships in the Norjak investigation. I'm not jealous. Rather, I feel like you are spinning me, deceiving me. Remember, I know and have written about your lying to me on your story of first hearing about Cooper - Duane's sick bed or on the trail in 1979 near Lake Camas. Can't have it both ways, Jo. You constant obfuscation, the "tease" that 377 so accurately describes, needs to be cleansed.

Really? Aren't you the same guy who insulted the shit out of Tina's brother in law and his wife (brother is a retired FBI agent) in your 'trying to make contact with Tina' article, (because he wouldn't cooperate with you)...and then later tried to accost her at her house in Springfield, Oregon...and were rejected? LOL. Give me a break. You haven't learned yet how to treat possible interviewees with 'honor and dignity,' so you really have no right speak on that one way or another. I like you Bruce, I really do. But your interview technique has been simple enough. If people do what you want and cooperate with you, then you write nice things. If not, you come down on them in a personal way. As if they owe you something and failing to get the answers you think they should provide, you trash them in other ways. You see, I found out you can get much more from people and convince them to open up by being nice. If they lie, you check on it later. You don't trash them personally with things that have nothing to do with the article, just because they said no. That's what you did with the Dormuth family out of Shelton, even though I warned you it was a bad idea. So don't preach to me about 'interview techiniques' please. Or 'honor and dignity' with some of the folks you've interviewed. For a guy who has actually worked on a newspaper as you have, this skill in you is seriously lacking. Still avoiding the questions I ask, eh, Robert. Some people just like being character assassins.

***Although you are not completely correct - you are at least showing some compassion why Tina keeps away from the public eye. Remember the terrible things Bruce did and the terrible things he has written about her. If EVER got the chance I would love to slap the hell out of Bruce for Tina, but with my luck and old bones I would break something.*** You want a piece of me Jo? Come and get it. As for Tina, I find your Pollyanna bromides about this woman to be revolting. Something very serious has happened to this woman, and think trying to find out what occured to her is both honorable and responsible journalism. Hiding her, or attempting to control access to her, is not helping her in my judgement. What! You should be the only one to have access to the Muklows and Dormuths? Are you the paragon of sound mind and health? Gawd Almighty Jo - look at your posts! What can you offer to Tina as balm for her wounds?

Nice try on spinning the Tina Mucklow story, Robert. But no cigar. Bill Ratczak told me that he owed his life to Tina and her ability to keep the situation "cool, calm and collected." He further called her the "brains of the outfit," and Gray's account of her actions makes her a true hero for slipping into seat 18 D when Flo began to lose her cool. Gray specifically says that Tina sat next to Cooper and smoked cigarettes with him, trading jokes. Yes, I know you don't want to hear that, or even accept it, but that's what the Rataczak told me and what Gray wrote. I say that corroborates a more complete perspective on Tina than the trashy, hysterical one that you espouse. Plus, in a video clip afterwards that is on YouTube, she appeared confident and articulate when discussing the skyjacking. Further, when I spoke to the 305 passenger Jack Almstad, he told me he was cracking jokes with Tina and DB, and Jack saw nothing amiss, never suspecting a hijacking. So where was the rampant terror that you suggest was obviously present. I conclude that the mysteries of Tina's subsequent life, especially in the 1979 period onward, go far beyond any simple explanation. To whit, what happened to this remarkable woman that put her in the Lutheran Home and Health Center in Gresham in 1979? I believe Tina was the victim of another crime, besides Norjak. What is it, I don't know, but I'm digging. And so to preserve her honor and dignity, I am challenging your superficial assumptions and writings. I find them insulting.

"...Still haven't seen anything from Bruce Smith proving that Rataczak said the flight was west of V23, by the way. Not that such proof doesn't exist, just that I haven't seen it yet..." *** As I have written many times, and stated repeatedly, my information sourced to Rataczak comes from my 2009 phone interview with him at his home in Minnesota. First he told me that he didn't know where Flight 305 was; then many moments later he said it was east of Victor 23. (Not west, btw, as you have stated, Robert.) Now, Bill is either telling the truth or not. Either way, it all adds to the uncertainly about the flight path. This issue begs the Big Journalistic Question: how do you really know when someone is deceiving you? When is an erroneous statement simply faulty memory or a mistake, and when is it a lie? My rule of thumb is that a pre-ponderence of information has to be weighed in one's own internal truthometer. For me, I think Rataczak was spinning me. I believe that he knows very well where 305 was that night. After all, he has had 42 years to clarify the issue. I believe that his comment that Flight 305 was east of V-23 is closer to the truth than his grand comment to me when I asked initially where the plane was: "It's an enigma."

"...The FBI did not make the flight path map ... any more than they make Chevy's and Quantum Possum Brand shoes with secret detectors that implant between your toes! ..." *** If the FBI does not embrace the Soderlind flight path as their own, why then do they claim Soderlind's LZ as the official place to send their agents and local LE? To rant about this point and not address the larger issue of whether the Ariel LZ is a mis-direct by the FBI for unknown reasons makes me wonder if you are trying to be a spin doctor here, and clean up a feddie-teddy mess. And why do you dodge my questions about your cultural goggles? Whatsamatta? Chicken?

So, G, what do you make of the discrepancies between the Paul Soderlind-slash-FBI flight path and the one that can be developed based upon what Rataczak says, the heavy search action over the Washougal, the exceptionally modest ground search in the Soderlind-based LZ, and the lack of any discoveries in the Ariel LZ over the past 42 years? Since your response was an impassioned one, I think it's fair to ask you about your feelings towards the FBI. How will you feel if you learn that the FBI is complicit in a cover-up? Or how much bungling can you accept in a large bureaucracy before you lose faith in a cherished institution? In short, what are your cultural googles when it comes to the FBI and their less-than-stellar police work. And please, don't ever try to mind-fuck me again and tell me to read the thread. I consider it disrespectful. It's an intellectualized from of bullying, and I won't accept it. Quote Mind fuck? A "mind fuck" is you telling the world the FBI MADE the NWA-FAA flight path map .... when they didn't! Name who in the FBI at the time who would have done this!? Was it Agent Smurley Caleopea Canoe? Just tell people it was made by Unicorns at Area-51! Its not anyone's fault you havent been keeping up or reading and absorbing the thread. Goto the back of the class! You bring up "Fair"? What would be "fair" in my book is you learning a few basic facts about the DB Cooper case and dropping the Foreman's, Unicorns, and somebody to blame. The blame is yours. I just work for a living. A Wage Earner Sheeple. And my "feelings" about clouds and water, are my damned business! *** I gather you have no substantive opinions on the discrepancies mentioned above, then, G? Or is your anger and your need to rant overwhelming your powers of reasoning? Your histrionics may work with some on this forum, but not with me. Just saying.

"...The FBI had nothing to do with the making of the "flight path map". The FBI inherited a flight path map. Here it is - the first iteration! What posses you to make a nonsensical statement like that - have you learned nothing in all these years of 'research'? If you want to tag and name somebody, to blame ... tag Paul Soderlind and the FAA data he used. Those are the actual historical facts. For God's sake - go back and read Sluggo's website and then - READ THE THREAD! Quote So, G, what do you make of the discrepancies between the Paul Soderlind-slash-FBI flight path and the one that can be developed based upon what Rataczak says, the heavy search action over the Washougal, the exceptionally modest ground search in the Soderlind-based LZ, and the lack of any discoveries in the Ariel LZ over the past 42 years? Since your response was an impassioned one, I think it's fair to ask you about your feelings towards the FBI. How will you feel if you learn that the FBI is complicit in a cover-up? Or how much bungling can you accept in a large bureaucracy before you lose faith in a cherished institution? In short, what are your cultural googles when it comes to the FBI and their less-than-stellar police work. And please, don't ever try to mind-fuck me again and tell me to read the thread. I consider it disrespectful. It's an intellectualized form of bullying, and I won't accept it.