fcajump

Got word early this morning (Sun) that is was off. Fortunately for me, I was driving down today, so... as I've oft' been told "be flexible" To those that were going to teach this: Please do!! And count me in on the pre-registration. Let me know when/where and I'll plan to be there.

Personally, my answer would be that if it is big enough to care about, replace the pouch. They're easily enough replaced and any patch/repair will be problematic. (IMHO) Your rigger should be able to get it changed out fairly quickly. Just to reenforce what you already know, if you're going to patch/repair it take the PC out first. Other's have regretted making changes/repairs to their gear without unpacking first. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Echo: call Jim, he was quick to help me when I did. I had a similar problem when I first went to the Cazer ZP, but when I talked with him he recommended that I swap from the larger model. Don't remember what canopy size he used as cut-off for his smaller ZP-PC, but for my SP-230 he definately wanted me to go with his bigger ZP-PC. Changed it and never had a problem with it since. (The Other) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I am specifically trying not to define "average", but let the responders do that for me... I was going after here is a "big picture" result. What I am even more interested in is something along the line of "how many jumps do you put on your canopy(s) before trading them in for something else..." This stems from repeatedly hearing discussions of "you don't want that canopy, you'll get bored with it too quick"... I heard that when I bought my first canopy (pd-260/f-111), and only retired it when I had ~500 jumps on it and found the new SET-400 more fun to jump It seems to me that those who jump the most number of different canopies often lead the rest of us to believe that you can only have fun by changing your gear (usually downsize). Yet, it is my contention that a good all-around canopy provides more than enough challenge to the "average" jumper who uses it in many varying conditions (hot/cold, windy/calm, day/night, high pull and low(er) ). Just my $.02 Thanks for all that replied. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Not talking about the gear you've "tried", but how many main canopies / harness-containers have you actively jumped on a regular basis. I keep hearing about how many the "average" jumper goes through, and I am curious as to whether or not the "average" jumper agrees. JW PS - My mains (3): PD-260 (from new) Star Trak II (from "Ralph") Spectre-230 (from new) Harness/containers (2): Vector II (from new) Vector I (from used) Not counting numerous student/borrowed gear and other antiques I have tried once or twice. Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Why is it fallacious? Wasn't the Cypres (first mostly reliable AAD) developed because somebody got tired of people dying from no-pulls? Wasn't the dirt alert first developed because someone got tired of people dying because they lost altitude awareness? Indeed. The point I was making is that really what they have done is just allowed dumb people to move their accidents to another part of the skydive. And given the rest of us the chance to come home on a day when everything went wrong (or just brainlock) and reconsider our choices in life. I have never had an AAD save, and don't intend to. But I just bought my third Cypres and prefer to jump with one. It is no substitute for EP (practice and use), and has its limitations. But I want the added chance to come back and reconsider. I am NOT a WS flier, but I think that if I were getting into it, I would evaluate the entire market of AAD's, their features and limitations and then decide whether or not I would be safer (or at greater risk) with an AAD on a WS specific rig. Nothing is without risk. Even wearing a reserve introduces risks that do not exist without it (no reserve = no chance of a double deployment). But most of us have concluded that the benefit outweighs the introduced risk. Reserves = YES Square reserves = No* Square reserves = YES* (*depends on when/who you are) 2nd Reserve = No AAD's in the 80's = No AAD's in the 90's = YES Altimeter = yes Dytter = no/yes (argument found in other threads) Anti-gravity boots = YES Thanks to those who have learned and built gear in time to let me come along to enjoy the relatively conservative life of large ram-air mains, large ram-air reserves, modern AAD's, dytters, altimeter(s) on each jumper, etc... I do want to jump, I understand the risk, but I don't wish to push the edge until I fall off if I can use the tools to avoid it. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Before I got my ticket, I found a rigger I trusted and would drive over 4 hours to get my gear inspected by him. To me, trust in his skills outweighed everything else. I tipped him as I felt (and still feel) that he charged too little for the amount of work he did (little did I know what more work there was that I didn't see). As a rigger I do sometimes wonder if for some people care no more about their safety as they do about their hamburgers. I've seen more consistancy from one fast-food chain to another than between riggers. There are a couple I would let pack my rig, but only a few (again, like Terry, I only know the work of a few others). I have also noticed that one's title or position in the skydiving community has little to do with the attention to detail when it comes to rigging. Any annoyance I might have, is that if someone else has been in the rig since I last packed it, I have to watch out for things that might have happened to the rig since I saw it last that could only happen with the rig open. Takes me longer. In the case of pilot rigs (my primary business) I give a discount if my seal is still intact for this reason. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Do you do anything special when packing? I am consistently on-heading but vary between "slow and soft" and "fast and hard". (I want a "medium, soft, on-heading"). Thanks. Propack, nose: no roll, just pushed into center. Make sure the slider is fully set. WITH the current (out of) trim... I get either slow/soft or slow..snivel...surge (light)... My biggest concern is that I am so used to the snivel that I will get complacent and wait on it too long. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I've only a few jumps on my Sp-230 (~500), but my opinion is that the openings are great and performance is very flexible. Would buy a new one if I had the cash. However the conditions I jump in are: minor back problems, many show jumps in all weather conditions (variable winds to ~20knots), in hot humid and dry cold. I need to look (and be) safe for the audience. If I was doing serious (classic) accuracy, swooping or CReW, no... in all cases there are better canopies for the specific use. However, I am looking to get it retrimmed (relined?). The opennings are getting longer and longer and in ~1 in 4 openings the canopy osolates fore/back until I get on the front risers. I know it is a developing trim issue and am waiting for the end of the show season. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

So get your 'B' license. You state you have 69 jumps (>50). If I recall correctly that gives you 3 months. Where's the problem? JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[replyI still personally believe it's long enough now. I have never seen an example to support the added wear argument and I still think unseen things can happen such as punctures from the outside, chemical intrusion, whatever...I am not taking a side on this topic as I see both ends and I really don't know what to think. (and I am a S Rigger) However, it seems to me PD thinks repacking wear is an issue because when we repack a PD reserver we are to check the boxes on the label and send the canopy in after a certin number or repacks. If there is another reason someone please tell me as I am just making a guess here I am also a SR, but from all the arguments I have heard over the years, both on the "damage" done by handling (and yes, I believe it is and is measureable... but what is the affect?) and also the argument about age limits... so here goes my theory... TSO states that the tested 'chute must be fully open and flying in 3 seconds. (someone will reply with full wording and explain how I am wrong on the wording, but this is close enough for my theory...) But recently (last 10-20 years) the MFGs have been asked, "when is the parachute manufactured under a TSO no longer 'good' for use as a certificated parachute?" MUCH harder to define... If the sample 'chute(s) passed the test, but were only 3 months old, and had porosity value X, what about the unit in the field that is 6 months and porosity Y? If TESTED, that 'chute might take 3.01 seconds to open... is it still "good"? What about 10 years and porosity Z1? What about 20 years and porosity Z2? What about 30 years and porosity Z3? What about 40 years and porosity Z4? What about 50 years and porosity Z5? Years ago, it was enough to say "it didn't rip when I pulled on it..." But now the porosity plays into the opening times and performance of flight and therefore survivability... Also, folks retired systems because there was something new. But what about that "never been jumped" Raven I s/n 45? Is it still "good"? PD took the attitude that for them (and their lawyers) the porosity if the key and it must be better than X2 which you get after ~40 repacks or ~25 jumps. Strong takes a different view... roughly that if the Rigger says its OK, then it is (until proven wrong). Others say 20 years is enough, but its not a legal restriction, just that they will not service their own rigs after that... BTW - YES I have had 50+ year old 'chutes brought in for repack (mil. rigs for pilots), so this is a valid concerns for the riggers and mfgs until such time as we adopt the military way of saying that after it is a certain age it is out of service EVEN IF UNUSED! (not saying I'm for it, just that its an issue as long as we are asked to keep older and older gear in the air.) JW PS - yep, probably over 500 words, but its very late and I get wordy after 2am. Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I would like to know what evidence you have of this. The riggers that I know at SOI take great care with their work. The management of this club based operation also works hard to ensure a busy operation continues running smoothly. In the time I have jumped there, I have consistantly seen a focus on proactive safety measures. They were the first dropzone I ever saw that started enforcing aircraft weight limits, seat-belt use, automated check-in systems to track repack dates (including personal rigs), and have now chosen to enforce manditory AAD use. Anyone can mis-date the board, forget to update the pack data card, or write down the wrong rig number. From my experience at SOI, I would be much quicker to assume this is the case. On the other hand, if ANY DZ or rigger has as its practice to pencil-pack or fake other documents, it should be pointed out with facts and the problem stamped out. So if you have evidence, bring it forth. If not, I would ask you for a retraction of your statements. Eitherway, I suggest that dropping names and allegations without including your own identification smells of frustration from someone with a grudge. Jim Wine D-15598 Disclaimer: While I am a rigger in the area, a former SOI tandem instructor and a member at SOI; I am not currently working for SOI or its affiliates, and I do not pack rigs for SOI. My opinons are my own. Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

You're right about the seat packs, I do many of them (its actually ~50% of my work), but it has taught me about technique. When I started Strong 304's were beating me up, but now I've got to be careful that the pull force is not too low. All in pack/fold technique. As to tools, well, no I don't NEED one... but I occasionally use a simply closing loop lever (paragear) as it takes the pressure of my lower back (doctor's orders... he doesn't dare/bother telling me to stop jumping/rigging ). But I also make routine use of pull force tests. Had I used the tools early in my rigging, I would never have learned to clean up my work and would likely still have marginally high pull forces (or worse). JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

~500 on a Spectre 230 (~1.1 wl) ~50 on Sabre 210, 230 and 260's Yes they are faiirly different fliers. As most of what I do (and prepare for) are demo's, I find the Spectre more flexible for what I need. It can be zippy(ish) or very slow. Mostly it is STABLE. The Sabre II is a bit zippier and responds differently. At my wing loading, I am certainly not pushing either. And I would say that I do not have enough jumps on the Sabre to provide you a better opinion that others here. I like them both, but for focusing on smaller area landings in a wide range of wind/temp conditions, I would buy the Spectre again. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Jumped a PD-260 for 11 years past when my dealer told me I would be bored with it. (Still jump it once in a while.) Currently I jump a Spectre 230 at about ~1.1. LOVE the canopy!! I am much more impressed by those who jump a large tame canopy after 25 years than those who scream in their landings (and sometimes scream after their landing). Recently repacked a 120 ft^2 reserve for a guy. When we first talked, I was reluctant (big-guy attitude) until I learned that he was himself ~120lbs. Small canopies have their place... on small backs. One day I may go small... might even get good enough to jump a 190... Have fun!! Ignore them... statistics say that if you keep jumping 2-3 years, most of "them" will go away anyway (or so I've heard). JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

The rule of thumb I have heard is that when fully geared you should not be able drop the yoke off your shoulders. If you can, and you have, say an inadvertant deployment while head low (diving toward the formation or poor track) you could come out of the harness. BTW Wendy - a friend let me borrow his Jav Odyssey (he's my size) and I'm very impressed with its fit around the yoke. Much more comfortable and sculpted to hug the shoulders. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Don't know, but if I ever get a master's rating, I'll be curious if I can... Jim "SPR" (senior parachute rigger) Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Always... but for that there is a small (~$1200) charge Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Nothing that other's haven't already said, but a vote for: Is it controllable and landable (and not likely to get worse)? Yes -> land it. No -> cut it before your hard deck. Now, if you have never flow with rears, you have not fully learned your canopy and need to do so ASAP. INCLUDING FLARE. (up high, this will be much different than toggle flare.) Done it twice... jumps 20 & 21 on a Goliath (as the name implies, its BIG). No problems, but a PLF was helpful on the second. (Rigger didn't change the second line when the first broke... , so it broke the next week and he got to change it then...) Now, given a smaller, twitchy canopy... maybe not. (see above test) Jim Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

If you'll take Sr. Riggers, count me in... Sounds like a great class. Jim Wine Sr. Rigger (back/seat/chest) Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

For what its worth, my Sp-230 has about 500 on it and in need of a retrim... however my experience is just the reverse. What was a slow openning canopy is now even more so, and about 1/4 I have to apply a little front riser to get it to fully inflate. OF COURSE, the ONLY reason I have yet to retrim is because I need to understand what rigging customers mean when they describe their own experiences... (besides... I need a b-tack machine...) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Last time I looked for some, DJ Assoc had recently getten a new batch (couple years ago). Might check with them... www.dj-associates.com JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Are they the ones that integrate their hard housing with a terminal grommet through the riser? JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

OK, now you've got me wondering... All online references I can find say 225-lb... Will have to go back to the book and then call SE... ANYWAY, its more than strong enough for a 3-ring. (have one set of old risers that used Type I) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...