Skwrl

Hi all, A couple of my fellow wingsuiters and I are preparing a talk on avoiding tail strikes for our upcoming Safety Day. I am wondering if anyone has prepared such a presentation before, and if they'd care to share it. We plan on creating our own content for this presentation, but insights as to how others have talked about it in the past would be useful. We'll make our presentation available on dz.com when we have completed it (which should be in advance of Safety Day, obviously). We're not just interested in tail strikes by wingsuiters - we're aware that lots of other, non-wingstuited, jumpers have hit the tail from time to time, so it doesn't need to be wingsuit-specific. Thanks for any help you can share. -Jeff Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

With Safety Day coming up, this seems like it would be a good topic to talk about - both for wingsuiters and for non-wingsuit skydivers. Has anyone done a presentation for Safety Day on avoiding tail strikes? I'm trying to find some materials that might be useful in connection with such a presentation. I'm aware of two different camera angles of one incident (I think it was the Miami incident, but I'm not 100% sure) - they can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcb2L5GkNRM and here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrd1KG9ifVg; any other footage of other incidents would be helpful. Edited to add: Obviously, I'm not trying to "bust" or "out" anyone who has had a strike if they don't want the information going around, so I am looking for stuff that might be available on the usual sources, like YouTube, Vimeo, etc. But anecdotes - even anonymous ones like Simon is collecting - would be useful. Thanks. Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

I was more concerned about the "USPA received requests to LOWER the number" as being a problem. I agree with your thinking on it. Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

I'd rather make my own choices. I'm also in favor of reasonable regulations. We already have that. Seems like someone trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. (see prior post) And that's precisely the dialogue we should be having. We can agree, we can disagree, whatever... But we can't do either if things aren't transparent. Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

I'm not particularly concerned with who is behind it (other than, I could then ask him or her to present it to DZ.com for input). For me, it's about transparency, not the person. I'm writing an open letter to the S&T committee on the subject, basically stating that until we have more dialogue about it, it should be tabled. Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

I'm actually OK with Big Brother, if we all decide that we want a Big Brother. I'm not OK with moving forward without open dialogue - I learned from my mistakes. But unless we find out more about the proposal, I'd have to say to the S&T committee that the proposal has NOT been presented to the wingsuit community, that we (as a group) can't form an opinion on what we haven't seen, and therefore it should be tabled until we find out what the Hell it is. I'd encourage them to talk to wingsuiters at the dropzones that they represent and get feedback before taking action on any proposal. Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

But what is the "it" that you are for? Saying "there ought to be a coach rating!" is all fine and dandy, but what are the specifics of the proposal? Does one have to be a coach to give first flight courses? What about providing help to people who have already got their first flight done? Who decides who gets a rating? What are the qualifications? Too many questions, none of which have been answered. Are you the guy who proposed it, Migs? Do you know who is? Even the best plan sucks if it's clouded in bullshit secrecy. Period. Edited to strike "what about people who already got their rating" to replace it with "what about people who already got their first flight done". Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

I'm not playing dumb, I legit don't know. A couple of years ago, I was part of a working group of experienced wingsuiters (I didn't - still don't - consider myself "experienced", but I was the group's "scribe"). That group proposed a wingsuit rating, and the proposal was severely crapped on by the community. The mistake we made was that we didn't really present the proposal to the community as a whole for input and consideration. As a result, the working group was viewed as a sort of "secret cabal" of folks trying to get a leg up on others, which really wasn't the intent. Nevertheless, we tried to push something through, figuring "well, the BoD wants something like this, we talked them into it", never considering that the people who are going to be affected by it are the wingsuiters. So, my recommendation to whoever is behind this is don't repeat the mistakes our group made in the past - be open and communicate the proposal to the wingsuit community (and yeah, sadly, this forum is probably the best means available). Get feedback and input and listen to it. Don't create a "submarine" proposal that catches those of us who don't read the USPA's agenda with breathless anticipation each month - I found out about it only because a friend posted about a proposed change relating to cameras. Whoever you are, don't be arrogant - there are a lot of people out there training folks, and they might not all march to the same drum, but many of them are very good (even if some aren't). Don't appoint a "committee of wizards" who are going to lead us out of our ignorance without talking to us about it. The result shouldn't be we end up with a few Kings and Queens of wingsuiting - unless that's what we, the wingsuit community, really think is best for us. Let's all get stuff out in the open. I applaud the idea of better, safer training; I absolutely loathe the methodology of having the USPA tell us how things are going to be without actually talking to the wingsuit community as a whole. Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

The board is remarkably quiet about item #8 on the agenda for the upcoming meeting of the Safety and Training Committee of the USPA Board of Directors: "8. Camera jump recommendations: USPA currently recommends at least 200 jumps before using any video camera on a skydive. USPA has received requests to look at lowering the jump number, as well as keep the number at 200 but actually make the recommendation for 200 jumps a Basic Safety Requirement, instead." See full agenda here: http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/Downloads/Agenda_ST_2012_02.pdf Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

Which one of you guys is behind the wingsuit coach rating proposal to be presented at the USPA Board of Directors' meeting on February 17 - 19? See here: http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/Downloads/Agenda_ST_2012_02.pdf Care to share the proposal with the rest of us? Edited because I didn't use an apostrophe correctly. Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

(I'm replying to myself because I thought of an additional point.) The author of the book I listed is both a paraglider pilot AND a skydiver - and if he isn't the "world expert" in ram air canopies, he's in the top three (although I don't know who the other two might be...) The principles of all ram air canopies, as the book points out, are the same - and consistent with what Dave wrote. It's really worth a read. Edited because i forgot the difference between principals and principles. But sort of moot because the person this message is directed to ignores... well, everything. It must be awesome to always be right about everything. Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

Nice explanation, Dave. For those who don't understand what Dave was talking about (and aren't closed-minded about learning they may not be 100% correct), check out this useful resource: http://www.amazon.com/Parachute-Its-Pilot-Ultimate-Ram-Air/dp/0977627721 Mods, I hope this doesn't come off as (prohibited) advertising. I am not the author. The author is way more enthusiastic and optimistic about life, and I'm a mildly pissed off guy who hates everyone (although, in fairness, I hate everyone equally). Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

Small ones, sure. I wouldn't quibble with that. You'd still be flying your body, not the air frame. But to get to the size that has been discussed (10m sq.) for soaring, we'd need a pretty damn large frame, which would support the vast majority of the induced drag. At that point, one is no longer flying one's body, but the air frame. Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

First of all, I don't see why people would be "pissed off" at you for posting this. You'll notice that we tend to get annoyed only when ignorant people post and are insulting as they do so. A lot of what you wrote was interesting, but I think your definition of wingsuit leaves out (or perhaps includes) too much. The first sentence describes how a wingsuit is sometimes used (you forgot BASE, but no worries), not what a wingsuit is. So then you're left with a wingsuit is a type of unpowered aircraft for which "Directional control is maintained by the movement of the arms and legs by the pilot". But I don't think sums up what it really is, though, if we're trying to come up with a classification... To me, the thing that makes a wingsuit a wingsuit is that the airframe of the wingsuit is shaped by the pilot's body, not by an external (or internal) frame like Yves' rocket wing or a hang glider or paraglider. The "body is the airframe" is why it's a called a "suit". Once you start adding a frame that principally holds the shape, I'd argue that it's no longer a wingsuit - it's something else. The tiny spars, struts, grippers and doodads that we've seen pop up on some of the larger suits and some of the newer suit manufacturers don't change that, as the airframe is still principally shaped by the body of the suit. Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

Well, sure, Simon - but dreamers are bounded by the laws of physics and currently available technologies and materials. If that wasn't the case, I'd be filming Quidditch matches, not you guys - they would be more interesting. Is it possible that future technologies could arise that could be light weight enough and strong enough to create a strong but flexible frame, which would somehow augment the body strength of the wearer enough to hold his arms open as he flies and permit a large enough surface area as a wing without ripping the dude's arms off and while giving him control? Sure. It's conceivable that someday this technology could exist. Do we have anything close to those technologies available to us now? Not yet. Despite lots of advances in materials science, we aren't close. The challenges that physics imposes on us on soaring are daunting, and we don't have anything that could offer up a solution yet. This whole thread has taken a hard left turn into the silly because people keep casting it as a battle between "dreamers" and "practical folks who have a lick of sense about aerodynamics". But I think that split doesn't do the conversation justice. It depends on your point of view - 50 years from now, I think something like the concept that DaVinci (sorry Giselle, he got there first) was talking about could exist. It probably wouldn't look anything like Giselle's designs, and it would require materials with properties that don't exist now (no, carbon fibre won't do the trick). But if any one thinks that it's going to happen in the next 10 years or so... Well... I'd point you to the stash of Popular Mechanics magazines I have saved from when my dad was 10 years old (the early 1950s). Lots of stuff that they dreamed about has come about (usually not in the way predicted). But also lots of it hasn't come about yet, unless I missed it when they handed out commuter passes for the jet packs that we all use to fly home to our nuclear-powered condos under the sea on the way back from our jobs on the moon. Physics doesn't make "soaring in a wingsuit" impossible - technology makes it impossible at present. But I'd go further to add that anything sufficiently advanced to actually soar would be so far removed from current technology that calling it a "wingsuit" would be an anachronism... So, in that sense, it won't be a "wingsuit", it will be super high tech soaring suit. My guess? 30 to 50 years out, minimum. Until then, it might as well be Quidditch. Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

Thank you for your clarification, because no, you weren't very clear before, at least to me. The point that you made about some of the strain being carried by the body of the wingsuit pilot wasn't obvious from your posts, and that distinction would make a difference to someone who is trying to understand the concept and decide whether they think it would work or not. So, in the proposed concept, some of the strain would be carried by the body of the wingsuiter, correct? Can you explain what part? Are there spars going off of the hands? From the shoulder on? Are the spars crossing the back (if so, what part of it the portion is carried by the spars and which by the body)? Edited to add the phrase: "at least to me". Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

Let me try again. You wrote the following words earlier in this thread: Extended arm frame, large surface area, higher aspect ratio. You have as your avatar picture a concept of what that would look like, correct? Even if it might not be exactly that, that was your general idea, right? So, back to my question: how is that thing (whatever we want to call it) different from a hang glider, other than one would wear it as opposed to hang underneath it? Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

I am confused: What is the difference between your proposed "sail suit" and a hang glider? (I mean other than you're effectively zipped up into the suit, as opposed to hanging below it.) Your suit would need need rigid struts/spars just like a hang glider, and your suit would need very large surface areas (far beyond the size of current wingsuits), just like a hang glider. You would need some some method of changing the AoA of the wing, again, just like a hang glider... Is the difference that you hang in a hang glider and you zip up into your suit? Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

Dude, the progression that she extrapolated is completely sustainable: http://xkcd.com/1007/. Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

You've got it all wrong, Jakee. it's already been done, by several. For example, meet Rudolf Boehlen: http://www.parapente-saintevictoire.com/leshommesoiseaux/rudolf%20boehlen.jpg These designs worked about as well as you would expect, which is another way to say "not at all". Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

Since I'm a law professor, the usual honorarium. Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

Hahahhaha.... (sigh) Oh wait, you're serious - let me laugh harder! Hahahahahhahahahhha..... I neither agree or disagree with your politics, but that comment is tantamount to damn silly. I can find soooooo many examples of folks who get paid a lot of money for speaking engagements who say utterly goofy things... Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

Am I the only one that found it amusing that the experimental moderated (i.e., censored) thread is about an bill that, if passed in the form it is in, would permit massive censorship? Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes. Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

You know, this subject really pisses me off. It's easily preventable, but we have people who are either are not properly trained or become complacent and forget... Several years ago, we lost Steve Harrington due to a tail strike. Let's learn something from that loss, rather than simply flailing out of the plane like a bunch of baboons on meth. Exit safe. Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

Tom, Fantastic news! I'm glad to hear it's going forward. When you factor in traffic to the Cape, Tauton's a great location! It does have a fair amount of air traffic, though, for an un-towered airport. (I landed there a few times in the course of working on my private pilot's license.) I assume you've got plans to manage that risk... Properly done, a "near Boston" tandem shop could do well. Oh, and for those who slam "tandem mills" - I got my start as a skydiver at a tandem mill... After 3 tandems, I knew I was hooked and moved on to an AFF program at a different DZ. They serve different populations, but people like Tom and Mary who have a positive attitude about skydiving can make a tandem mill that will result in a lot more people picking up AFF... -Jeff Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork