dudeman17

I liked when those other two jumpers weighed in recently. They were around in Cooper's day, and by their profiles at least one of them was a rigger. I started jumping in '79. I went through my student training on that older type of 'gutter gear', back mains and front reserves, but quickly graduated to more modern piggyback gear, with both main and reserve on the back. And I'm not a rigger, because I've never been interested in that job. So I know generally how that gear was set up and how it works, but I don't know the finer details of specific gear of that era. That thing pictured certainly appears to be parachute container materials. Obviously there is no canopy there. It kind of looks to be the right size for a front reserve container, but if there's more folded behind what can be seen it might be a back container. Those two metal snaps are exactly the type that hook a front reserve on to the D-rings on a harness, but they could also be leg strap attachments on a back container. That pocket on the lower left looks like it might be holding a packing card. But that pocket should be on the outside of the container, so as to be accessible on a packed rig. But that looks more like the inside of the container, and that those clips seem to be attached to the other side is consistent with that. But if that was the inside, I would expect to see the risers there, and I don't. I also don't see any of the grommets, cones, or loops that would be the pack closures. The configuration of the straps at the bottom, and that the top right seems to show some kind of loop is more consistent with a back. I could be wrong, but I'm not familiar with any typical front mount container that had it's own integrated harness. I think there was a type of aircrew bailout rig where the crewman wore a harness that had no container on it, but it had the D-rings. I think the idea was that they already had the harness on, so they wouldn't have to fumble with that in an emergency bailout situation, but they wouldn't have to be wearing the whole rig, which would be bulky and cumbersome in tight spaces. There would be the front reserve containers stored somewhere, so if they had to bail all they would have to do would be grab the container and snap it on to the front of their harness. I dunno. That certainly appears to be a container of some sort, but I can't tell exactly what type. I made some edits, because I was trying to look at it as a front, because supposedly that's what McNally had? But the more I look at it it looks more like a back. I'd need to see it held up or the other side.

That's what it sounds like to me. He asks for two backs and two fronts, that sounds like mains and reserves, two complete rigs. I think the thought is that if he asks for multiple chutes, then they might be less likely to give him sabotaged ones for fear he might make someone else jump with him. (His comment to Tina, 'You'll like where we are going'... ??) His terminology... He might not know the proper terms? He might know the proper terms, but he's trying to simplify it? He might know the proper terms, but he's trying to hide that fact? You've mentioned about Braeden, that he was a badass and Cooper wasn't. I'm not advocating for Braeden, just speculating, but if Cooper was a CIA badass, he might well make efforts to obscure that fact. If all the witnesses were saying that they thought he was a CIA badass, that would certainly send the FBI in specific directions looking for suspects. Military gear... Yes, most military gear would have been set up for static line, which he wouldn't want, or bailout rigs, which he also wouldn't want or why would he ask for front reserves? R99 says that there was some military HALO (freefall) jumping in those days, but that would have been a small minority of gear the military would have available.

Well, in newer movies such things are often part of the story line, like someone going through a mid-life crisis or something, but in the older movies it's just sort of matter-of-fact, like it's just the normal thing, not even mentioned or noticed as out of the ordinary.

When I went through Yosemite's legal wringer in '82, Scott Gediman asked me, "Why are they so mad at you guys?" I replied, "I was hoping you could tell me", although I already knew. ------- On Jeopardy this week, there was a guy who looked a lot like Carl.

And on the other side of things, Piper Laurie was 47 to a 23 year old Mel Gibson in 'Tim'.

One thing that I've found kind of odd, is watch old movies from the 40's or 50's. They often portray significant age differences. It's common to see actresses in their twenties playing the love interest or spouse to actors in their forties and fifties. One movie I saw a while back, it was a true story about a backwoods hick who became a WWll hero, and at the end he goes home and marries his longtime girlfriend. I don't know if this was historically accurate, but the actor was in his forties and the actress was sixteen.

Pilot bailout rigs are reserves. That's why they don't have D-rings. The canopies are reserves, designed, built, tested and TSO'd as such. Required to be packed by a rigger, which is why they have seals and packing cards. None of that applies to mains. Did McNally just have a military airman's harness, with no back container, just the D-rings to attach the front reserve pack?

So was Cooper.

I always got a chuckle out of the shot that appears at the end of this video (5:00). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw8OJJQ_hgk

Well the bottom line is that if the front chute had it's card, and there were two other cards with the remaining back chute, then that eliminates Gryder's rig, because it would not have one. With the totality of things I've read, it sounds like Cossey had a bailout rig that he used when putting out static line students, and not jumping himself. That would not have D-rings. I have confirmed with an instructor/rigger from that era that that was a common practice, as a full sport rig with front reserve would be cumbersome and awkward. It sounds like he may have moved the ripcord handle in order to keep it farther away from a possibly panicked student who might inadvertently grab it. That makes sense. But that would not require some flailing, multi-directional arm movement, like you were doing semaphore or something. As a mechanical device, a ripcord could not be more simple. It's a thin wire cable with pins attached. The pins go through pack closures to hold the container shut. Pulling the ripcord far enough to move the pins, a matter of inches, will open the container. His description to the FBI sounds like Cossey Drama. It sounds like Cossey originally thought, or later claimed, or whatever, that he sent two back rigs, the above one and a sport rig. The sport rig would have D-rings, and it sounds like that's the one Gryder thinks he's found. But however that worked, the existence to the cards eliminates that.

Definitive evidence of the chutes is the existence of the packing cards. Didn't Cossey's description say that one of his chutes was his bailout rig (that he wore when putting out static line students and not jumping himself) and the other was a sport rig? The sport rig would have the D-rings to attach a front reserve, but it would NOT have a packing card. Sport reserves and pilot emergency rigs are required to be packed by a rigger, and thus have the packing cards. Sport mains do not. The dummy reserve would not have one. The real reserve, that Cooper opened and cut lines from, would have one. Both of Hayden's rigs would have one. A sport main such as Cossey's, or the one Gryder showed, would not. So that there were TWO packing cards left with the remaining back rig would indicate that the back rig Cooper used was also a bailout rig (Hayden's) and NOT a sport rig, such as either Cossey's described rig or Gryder's. The only other possibility would be if that second card was from the real front reserve. But if that one is accounted for, and there were THREE packing cards on the plane, then that eliminates Gryder's rig.

To clarify that a bit more, Georger, having the wrong ripcord will not result in a packed rig that you cannot open. It would result in not being able to get the container closed in the first place, as the ripcord pins would not match where the container pack closures are. If they were close enough to get it closed, then pulling it would get it open.

I'll repeat my standard disclaimer here. I am not a researcher, I don't read all the documents, I don't care much about diatoms, tie particles, or flight path variations. I have my own reasons for being interested in this case. Occasionally I'll throw in a few cents about parachutes or the logistics of parachuting because that's what I know. The things I say, I don't claim they actually happened, I'm just giving possibilities. If that helps someone define their theories, great, otherwise people are free to ignore me. As to your specific issues here... First, what's chaff? But, who knows who or how fast the FBI has access to. But it wouldn't really take a rigger long to do something with the chutes. He wouldn't have to completely unpack and repack the chutes. All he would have to do is open the container, add a pinger or cut some lines or whatever they wanted him to do, then re-close the container. I don't know how big the pingers would be, but if they're small enough you might be able to just shove one in through the corner of the container, where the flaps are separated. It would fall out on opening, but it would confirm the exit point and be reasonably close to where Cooper would land. I'll turn that challenge back on you. Find a civilian drop zone or skydiving community anywhere at any time in parachuting history that had only one rigger among them. Hard to say who all was among their community, but off the top of my head I can think of at least two other riggers that were active jumpers in that area at that time.

I'm just being objective here... Skydiving communities are pretty small and interconnected. If Reca was a local jumper, he was at least acquainted with Cossey, if not a friend, and it's possible if not likely they had made jumps together. Again, not necessarily. For instance, if they had gotten the chutes from McChord, they would have been packed by someone different. And if the FBI had wanted to sabotage the chutes, they could have had a military rigger do it and leave whoever's name (Cossey) on the card. The three letters on the lead seal might be different, but that would depend on if Cooper knew what those letters should be, indeed if Cooper knew enough to look at them.

Exactly. If Reca was a local jumper, it's quite possible that Cossey packed his reserve.

For the same reason - Cossey runs the rigging loft at the local drop zone, so he would be seen as the local go-to authority.

That doesn't necessarily mean anything significant. Someone earlier claimed that Cossey was the only rigger in the area. I find that a bit difficult to believe, because in any community of skydivers there is likely to be a number of people with rigger's tickets. HOWEVER, if Cossey was the main commercial rigger in the area, in that he ran the loft at the local drop zone, he and that loft would be the logical choice for aerobatic pilots (and their service personnel) when they needed their emergency rigs repacked. And the front reserve would have come from the student gear at that drop zone, also under Cossey's care. So for Cossey's name to be on all of those rigs would just be logical happenstance.

The last line of that page pictured says that FBI sketch artist Roy Rose "...will contribute a detail that has never been documented in any public file of the FBI:". (To be continued on the next page, not pictured.) What is that?

No shit? That's really cool, Flyjack. I read that article and spent the next hour(?) on youtube checking out old Guess Who videos (and a couple BTO ones).

Ah, yes, I remember Rick Sylvester's ski jumps. I think he did a practice run off El Cap, but the movie jump was somewhere else, like Banff or somewhere. But that had actually slipped my mind when I posted the question, because I had someone else in mind. I had heard that at least one of the early Taft/Arvin/Elsinore early SCR guys jumped El Cap sometime near when you guys did, probably after hearing about it. Do you remember anything like that?

I certainly remember of you and Brian, and have always been grateful for what you guys did. I have a question. Are you aware of anyone else who may have jumped El Cap back in your era, before Carl took his group in '78? I have heard of at least one, but have not confirmed it.

Yes, birds can fly, and I'm sure they're happy about that. But the reason they sing... is because they don't have to pack!

Yes I am, sort of. My intent is to be there on Saturdays, but I seem to be making it about half of them. Haven't resumed doing tandems yet, still just doing AFF. Hopefully soon.

I wasn't looking to do a deep dive on all things radio, and I don't think that this issue will solve the ultimate question of who Cooper was. I was just curious, so I asked him since he mentioned it. I believe R99 is a pilot, and seems to know about pilot stuff. Does he have a 'vested interest' in deceiving me? I hadn't noticed that.

I read Dr. Edwards' post and he didn't really define those distances. So to be curious and clarify, in your opinion would 305 have been near or beyond that distance limit for Redmond at that point, or should they have been within it?