RhondaLea

I suppose I should make a topical comment here, but for the most part, I disagree with the lot of you. I think Tom almost has it. As for you, Mr. Nitro, your point of view is too deeply colored by what you do. You've got to look at the bigger picture. But that's not the reason for this post. You're a lot of things, Ray--most of them good--but you'll never be up to Skin's standards. Seven more long, Skinless days. Perhaps we should petition management for a pardon before the whole place falls apart. God knows, he'll never get time off for good behavior. rl

He has nine days to go, more's the pity. rl

Addendum to my reply, because I can't seem to get it to accept the edit: I am equivocating up above and it's bullshit on me, so let me be plain. What I believe is that Le Roy left the scene in his car, with the gear, and that after he returned the gear to the dz, he returned to a place close to the scene, and waited--cell phone in hand--in the event he was needed. I believe that telephone calls were exchanged. I believe that there are other small details that are not relevant, so I'm not going to bother with them. I am totally convinced that had any of the other three people on the load (okay, two, since the one hanging really wasn't in position for conversation) assigned him a different role--even perhaps allowing another to drive his car away--he'd have done what was required to play his part. What I can't believe is that you guys can be so harsh about such bullshit. What Kevin McGuire is talking about up above is not bullshit. I know the who did it--and another one who did something worse in Colorado--and both of them would do it again because they're nothing more than . Why don't you talk about a really important issue instead of this endless repetition of hateful behavior against someone who continues to try to be better. Hey Tom, why don't you let me do Skin's penance on his behalf. I need a rest from this, and I won't take one unless you make me, because I still haven't learned how to stop beating my head against a brick wall. rl

What you did is to your credit. Unfortunately, details are important in these situations, and as I understand it, some of them are missing re Le Roy's part in all of this. Just for the record, hanging from the wire is, from an ethical standpoint, no different than being wounded. That's just IMO, of course. But the last thing I'm going to do is get into a pissing contest. "Yes, he did; no, he didn't" is for children. The fact is that I was not there, and there's no way for me to know for certain what is true. I do, however, know something both about character and characters, and as I said above, I'm pretty sure some of the relevant details are absent. Does the friend who was left hanging post here? rl

Has already happened to someone in the area... still want to bet?? I'll bet, but if I lose, I'm paying Skin, not you. And if this is a rehash of the sonic bullshit of several months ago, I don't even want to hear it. Either he left wounded or dead behind or he didn't. The convolutia (yes, I made up the word--it's short for convoluted minutia) is too much for my small mind to comprehend. rl

It was a very clever, very funny post. On the other hand, I wonder if any of you has ever read Heinlein's discussion of humor in Stranger in a Strange Land. Anyway, I'll bet anything you guys want to name that Le Roy would never leave any of you. rl

How will you leave him in a tree when you wouldn't even jump with him? rl

We are the sum of all we've done, not only who we are today. I'll grant you there are a couple of typos, but that's just because you're a guy, and all in all, I think it's pretty well done. But there's still time; I can delete the link.

You're not kidding about somewhere. Sheesh! This link goes to the main page. Click on "Articles" and the essay in question is the fifth one down. Permission requested to copy it here in its entirety so it doesn't get lost again. rl

Nope, not him. It was just a ploy to get a free whipping.

You forgot the "i" that goes after the "W".

It seems to me that he manages to jump plenty...and his reports of all that jumping is quite entertaining. Don't discourage him. rl

No, Dave, not the bong, the stein. And for next time, Trace, it's spelled scaredy cat or you can use an alternate: fraidy cat. I highly recommend that you take something for the raging hangover you must surely have.

So you're going to reward him?

George: Nik, nik, nik, nik, nik, nik, nik...swamp. Your age is showin', dude. :) But I guess that means mine is too. The river flows, it flows to the sea Wherever that river goes, that's where I want to be Flow river flow, let your waters wash down Take me from this road to some other town All I wanted was to be free And that's the way it turned out to be...

I'm just...stunned. Fly free, Axel, and give a hug to Thor Alex from me. rl

Just for the record, even though it's not relevant to what is actually under discussion, Keith is a great pilot. http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.skydiving/browse_thread/thread/65b893e904db6a87/69890b68f5514000?q=engine+out+DelMarva+group:rec.skydiving&rnum=1&hl=en#69890b68f5514000 http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.skydiving/browse_thread/thread/4d9ac15a066a9412/3306fc0b1a668c5f?q=group:rec.skydiving+insubject:Skydive+insubject:Delmarva+insubject:Thanks+insubject:Skydive+insubject:Virginia&rnum=1&hl=en#3306fc0b1a668c5f

News clip: http://tricities.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=TRI%2FMGArticle%2FTRI_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031782667645 ABINGDON – No one was hurt Wednesday when a private airplane hit the roof of a hangar at Virginia Highlands Airport and spilled fuel across the runway. The pilot, Keith May, 45, of Laurel, Del., apparently misjudged the distance between the hangar and the wing of his skydiving plane as he tried to park, said Ronald Deloney, the airport’s manager. The wing hit the roof and separated from the plane as May landed and taxied down the runway, Deloney said. Volunteer firefighters sprayed foam on the runway to soak up spilled fuel and stalled the engine by spraying it with water, Volunteer Fire Chief Joey Burke said. Airport officials removed airplanes from inside the hangar in case the fuel caught fire. "My concern was since the engine wouldn’t shut down and there was raw fuel there would be a fire," Deloney said. "The pilot had made several attempts to shut it off from the top of the plane, but it didn’t work. With the engine running there was the chance that the wing would come off and that would have been a big mess." The collision only ripped a few shingles off the roof, he said. Damage to the airplane could amount to more than $5,000, according to the Virginia State Police.

There aren't. It's just a matter of considering consequences--which are not local, but global. Every time a bandit jump is made, it endangers legal sites. Everytime a new site becomes legal, the choice of how to jump that site becomes subject to someone else's rules. And eventually (perhaps sooner than you think) comes the quid pro quo, at which point you will all be turning on each other because the threat of losing those legal sites will make you believe you have no other choice but to turn in your brother. I thought at first that year-round legal jumping at NRGB would be a plus. I no longer believe that, for reasons I don't feel like elucidating right now, although I will say that "sleeping with the enemy" is not high on my list of moral acts. And about that, I will say this: I have always believed that a certain incident that occurred at a certain national park that resulted in the untimely death of a certain really nice guy is not, in fact, attributable to his own illegal actions, but rather to the rabid overzealousness of a certain law enforcement entity. For that reason alone, I think negotiation with that entity is unconscionable. Nonetheless, my ethical position is my ethical position, not yours, and in the end, what you all will have to consider are the consequences awaiting you at the end of the road you choose. rl

Maybe you can do it. :) http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?as_q=Dennis+McGlynn&num=100&scoring=d&hl=en&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_ugroup=rec.skydiving&as_usubject=&as_uauthors=&lr=&as_drrb=q&as_qdr=&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=16&as_maxm=5&as_maxy=2005&safe=off Not all of these links are related, but many are, and they tell the tale in real time. I know it's hard to believe, but The BASE Board and dropzone.com did not always exist, and in those days, rec.skydiving (the ftp archives of which go back to 1988) was a much different kind of ng. For people who have questions about what was going on way back when, a Google Groups advanced search or a read of www.afn.org/skydive is at least the start of an answer. See here: http://www.afn.org/skydive/usenet/ rl

It's not that it isn't allowed. There are some dropzones where younger people have been allowed to jump, as well as some tandem masters who took their young children jumping. (I also know parents who have allowed their children to BASE jump.) There are no current laws that specifically prevent a child from making a skydive (although most of the tandems w/children that I know of actually were a violation of law at the time.) The issue is legal liability. If a child can't enter into a contract and a parent cannot sign away the child's rights, it leaves the dropzone--and everyone even remotely associated with the dropzone and the jump, including the parents (children can sue their parents, you know)--totally on the hook for liability. Worse yet, it leaves the door open for the responsible child welfare agency to come in and say to the parents, "You are a bad parent, and we're taking your kid away." Tell your mom I said "hi" and be patient. The next five years will go more quickly than you think. rl

Much like the poster before me, I am . You're a demon, Spence. But on a more serious note, I've never known Billy to deviate from what is strictly factual when making a report of any kind, so I'm more than inclined to think that whatever "other sides" there may be to the story, the side he presents is the true and correct one. rl

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_2724083?rss

N/A

Whew! I thought I'd lost it, because I didn't see a thing. But I knew there wasn't a shuttle launch yesterday, just the final launch of the Titan. It was good to see you again, Jack. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb