RhondaLea

skydiverek posted this link upthread. The picture is one of the best I've seen of Adrian anywhere: http://www.bpa.org.uk/skydive/pages/people/adriannichols.htm rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Did you miss the part where acknowledges this? He's donating more than half of his profit (66%) to victims of Katrina. Having spent the better part of the afternoon reading his old posts, I believe him. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Just a thought... Instead of an El Cap protest jump, how about an El Cap charity jump? rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I can see that you mean well, so this is not a criticism of you, but of an attitude that remains prevalent and dangerous. Mental illness, by definition, does not permit choice. Those with personality disorders can make choices--and do, to the detriment of those around them. Those with unmedicated or improperly medicated mental illness do not have the ability to make choices. When I'm ill, I have no control over my loss of IQ, memory, and general cognition--in other words, I do not choose to be stupid--and even though I'm not so ill as to be totally unaware, I'm still nowhere near aware of how bad it is. In retrospect, when I'm properly medicated, I can look back and see it quite clearly, but not at the time it is happening. We allow children small choices so that they can learn to make bigger choices, but the big choices are withheld from them until they have the ability to understand consequences. We protect them because they are not capable of true choice. The same should be true of the mentally ill, but we do not take on the same responsibility for their welfare. We write them off, ridicule them, denigrate them, abuse them. There is a good reason for this: If a mentally ill person can choose, then by our will alone we can avoid mental illness. Edited to add: in skydiving, this is the "he died because he was dumb" argument. Unfortunately, in skydiving, not everyone who dies dies because they are dumb. It is equally unfortunate that there are no bootstraps. Mental illness strikes where it will because it is an illness not a choice, and we are all equally vulnerable. rl Note: I will not address the issue of alcohol and drugs, except to say that both are means to self-induced transient mental impairment. A sober alcoholic or drug user can choose prior to drinking or drugging to give his car keys away, but once impaired, it is not a matter of choice. This is why the responsible among us take the keys of those who are too fucked-up to make decisions. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I live with an illness (Hashimoto's thyroiditis/hypothyroidism) that manifests in myriad symptoms (mental and emotional are at bottom of the checklist) which include clinical depression and dementia. As the disease progressed without treatment, I alternated between hyperthyroid and hypothyroid symptoms (including startling weight loss and gain with no change in eating habits), and I was misdiagnosed with (among other, lesser illnesses) multiple sclerosis (as to the physical symptoms) and multiple personality disorder (as to the mental symptoms). As it turns out, I have neither. My disorder is autoimmunine, so as my thyroid is progressively destroyed, my meds must be adjusted (three times just since 2001). In addition, stress of any kind (as well as estrogen), affects the response of my body to the medication, so that even the "correct dose" isn't always in sync with what my body needs. If I were to stop taking my medication, I would die. Myxedema coma is fatal without intervention, and even when treated aggressively, the mortality rate is about 60%. I have twice come within days of being this ill, the first time because I was not on meds at all, the second as the result of medical malpractice. I'm here to tell you that there is no discernible difference between "mental" illness and "physical" illness; they are one and the same, and both can kill if untreated. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Gullibility and kindness are not a prerequisite to being taken in by the personality-disordered. Narcissists and sociopaths are slick and clever, and most of them are quite capable of selling swampland in Florida. The hallmark and defining characteristic of these two personality disorders is lack of empathy. A mentally ill person on the proper meds will show appropriate remorse for inappropriate behavior while off his or her meds. Someone who lacks empathy may occasionally pretend to remorse, but only as the preamble to justifying his heinous behavior. Sociopaths and narcissists are generally considered untreatable for a variety of reasons, and they go through life extracting a price from everyone they meet. The mentally ill are treatable and can live a normal life without being a constant drain on others. Given the choice--based on personal experience--I would choose as a friend one who is mentally ill rather than one who lacks empathy. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Most people don't have sufficient education in psychology to understand the difference between a mental illness and a personality disorder. People with personality disorders give people with mental illness a bad name because they are lumped together, and while the former have a choice about their behavior, the latter do not. Everyone who might run into Erik has a right to be aware of the situation so they might take steps to protect their belongings, but a little compassion is in order for someone who is battling an illness over which he has no control. Erik's problem is a disease. Lack of empathy is a choice. All in all, I think lack of empathy is probably worse in the long run than petty theft. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

He was stubborn, proud, determined, outspoken and the bane of manifestors everywhere. More than that, however, he was a very kind and generous man with a shining mind, a razor wit and the good sense to send Katarina to manifest in his stead. If ones immortality lies in being well-remembered, Adrian will live forever. If you read this, Katarina and Spotty, I am thinking of you both in this dark and terrible time. Love, rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I don't think he's a very good president, but I can't remember the last time we had a very good president--for many years now they've all been various shades of bad. I don't think he's a liar, and I don't think he's a nutcase, although I do think he's a poor public speaker who more often than not says what he does not really mean. Anyway, to determine someone's mental stability, you have to look at what he initiates, not at what he reacts to. rl P.S. Coming this way anytime soon? Don't forget to stop by and say hi this time. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

First of all, it's not English. It's Loslian, a unique language with exactly one speaker. It's not that difficult to understand. Just close your eyes and listen. In all seriousness, Ray makes perfect sense if you read it as if he were speaking to you, and what he writes (except when he's picking on me) is always worth reading. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Dear Shane, Please post information about how individuals can make pledges and how to get the money to Miles' wife thereafter. Thanks. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

People do really weird shit when they've been traumatized, Abbie. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Abbie, Abbie, Abbie... "Linear" is not "logical." Women can effortlessly use both sides of their brains simultaneously. Men use only one hemisphere at a time. And even if you think two heads are better than one, I've never met a man who could make use of both his heads at the same time. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Are you caling me a bad rigger, a bad cook, a dirty bastard, and a sloppy decorator? It's always the same: 100%Nature-100%Nurture I knew I could count on you, Nitro.

It's not a cop-out to describe reality, Dennis. And you are not just a truckdriver. I addressed, albeit briefly, the issue in your post already, but it was not the question Katee posed. The original question--and title of the thread--is "Why so few females?" not "Can women be good or even great basejumpers?" We already know the answer to the latter question, because there are shining examples of great women basejumpers for us to point to. That's just more reality. But we still lack a satisfactory answer to the question that was asked. rl Edited to add: The one with inborn talent. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Er...yes...so we'll talk about all this 30-year old stuff privately, eh? I already agreed with you about rabid feminism, Dennis, I just want the pendulum to stop in the middle, not swing the other way--I'm not denying the "comparable work issue" but I am denying it was the only comparison. Because if we're talking 30 years ago, gender discrimination laws were not in effect yet, y'know? I have plenty of minutes left this month. Feel free to call, and we can argue for hours. No bitterness. I tried to help her because she was 18 and still a child. Him I turned in for stealing, remember? He got disbarred. Today was a pretty good day. OTOH, I don't want Tom to clip this and send us to SC. I'm about over SC. Well, for this I apologize, because I wasn't talking about you. The 70s left an unpleasant residue, and while most everyone here is too young to remember, I'm not, and you really aren't either. It was a very bad time for men and women. The pendulum swung too far the other way. Boy, what an opening. Every guy's a wise guy, Dennis. Come back to Florida and say that where I can get a good kick in. Look, I stated my position above--twice. It's biology. Women and men are differently brained. We have different innate talents that are generally uniform across the population, but there will always be women who are more male-brained, just as there will always be men who are more female-brained. And there will always be those among us who reach beyond their biology to do extraordinary things. You want to argue the socioeconomic issue? I'm the wrong person, but I'll argue the other side just for the fun of it. Just don't call me tonight. I have a headache. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

QuoteI'll probably get hell for saying this... Quote That was brave. :) It was also correct. It's part of our biology. Men have better spatial awareness, among other inborn traits, that make them better equipped to fly their canopies. It doesn't mean that women can't develop skills that come more easily to men anymore than men can't develop skills that come more easily to women. It just means that in the areas where our brains are different, we have to work harder to hone the requisite skills. There's nothing sexist about stating a fact, Amanda. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Dennis, are we talking about the 70s or are we talking about now? It seems a little blurry to me. As to teachers, I was talking about the payscales where I went to school in the 60s and 70s (I graduated highschool in '76). The men made more than the women, and most of the women had been teaching longer. If you're talking about now, I don't think there is much issue of pay inequity except in certain backwater towns, such as the one in which I currently live. So if you're talking about the 70s, and earlier, it was a lot different. But no one was basejumping then, so the conditions then don't apply to 2005. If you're talking about the thirty years in between then and now, it's just like anything else--you have to do it by cases. Payscales equalized in some areas more quickly than others. And you'll never be able to make a case using small businesses, because unlike corporate environments, the payscales reflect the value of individual employees to the owner. I've worked in lawfirms where I was paid more than the associates; I also worked in a lawfirm where I was paid about the same as the "paralegal" with the 9th grade education (barely) who was hired straight from a strip club because my boss had lost his mind. Anyway, you seem pretty passionate there at the end, but I'm almost certain it wasn't a woman who pointed to the possibility of economic inequity as a reason for women not basejumping. And my qualified disagreement with the facts you cite has nothing to do with "women need[ing] only take responsibility for their own lives and their own happiness without blaming others for choices which are now theirs." That was a real leap, Dennis, and a little insulting, particularly since the poster who made the assertion was male not female. Anyway, I don't agree that disposable income is the issue, because there are a lot of women skydiving and engaging in other risky and expensive ventures--one such being the bearing of children. Ever looked a maternal mortality rates? They'll give basejumping a run for the money riskwise. Nor do I agree it has so much to do with children, because I know plenty of women with children who skydive--I've even known some to continue jumping in the early months of pregnancy--and I made my only basejumps when my daughter was not quite a teenager. The reason lies elsewhere. Perhaps if we consider it without reference to old resentments, we'll figure it out. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

This statement is false. It is a part of mid 70's feminist rhetoric which stilted numbers to falsely represent income/job statistics. In a nut shell, it has been illegal to pay men and women different pay in the same exact job for some time, so women today working as engineers with the same job and seniority and rank must be and are paid the same as the male workers at that same company. I've snipped most of your reply, because it is largely on-target as to the present day. Back then, however, things were different. Rabid feminism gets my goat, and some of those who represented the "feminist movement" clearly were (and remain) man-haters, but that doesn't change the fact that it wasn't just "comparable jobs." For example, there were a lot of male teachers in those years (it was good for a draft deferment, and there were many men who availed themselves of the opportunity to avoid Vietnam), and the pay scales were different. In addition, there were jobs that women do routinely now that they weren't even considered for then. A lot has changed. I have the misfortune of being old enough to remember it rather than just reading about it. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Don't be fooled by the video. He probably has faster reaction time and better spatial awareness than anyone you've ever run into. He was getting out of the way the split-second he saw her start to pitch. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

QuoteCan you tell me what happend? Who was at fault?Quote It depends on who you ask. At the time, Yuri took full responsibility for the fuck-up just so everyone would shut up about it. [Edited to add: he beat me to the post--I guess the early account remains the historic account and trumps any intervening accounts. So there you have it from the horse's mouth.] There are several accounts on rec.skydiving, but I'm not going to post links this time. If you want to read them, you'll have to hunt for them. That video is a stolen moment from the Lemmings '95 video...although it looks like this particular clip was probably stolen from Hard Copy, which received permission from Will Forshay to air it. There's another, similar video a year later (I think it was '96 but it might have been '97). The star of that show was Lee Werling. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

The guy on the left only ever flails on purpose. He saw that pilot chute and he tried to get out of the way. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Fetal testosterone levels. [Edited to add link.] The more exposure to testosterone during a critical period of fetal development, the more "male-minded" the fetus becomes. Simon Baron-Cohen, the director of the Autism Research Centre in Cambridge has done a fair amount of research on the subject. He ultimately links "the extreme male brain" to autism. Two pop science books that examine the differences between male and female brains, including a short quiz to determine the male or femaleness of ones own brain, were written by Allan and Barbara Pease: Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps and Why Men Can Only Do One Thing at Time...And Women Never Stop Talking. Or you can just take the AQ Test. [Edited to add: Be prepared to hand score it. It's old, and the scoring function appears not to work.] Your turn, Nitro. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Actually, I've had a thought. 1010 was kind enough to do the hard work, and now we have a working definition of sociology, i.e., the study of human social behavior, especially the study of the origins, organization, institutions, and development of human society. So perhaps our next object of study should be the institution of kookery. I've got a whole load of links on the subject, complete with psychological analyses of the kooks themselves. But if we go with a new forum, I think I'd call it "The Loon Preserve." Hmmm...maybe even a contest to name the forum...first prize to be a tinfoil hat.... rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

...is that this forum is "the place for sociological and political discussions." What I would like to know is if conspiracy theories fall into the category of sociological or political discussion. I never thought so, but there are so many kook threads here now, it's starting to look like some of the alt groups on usenet, i.e., trashed. Just wondering. rl Edited to add: Urban Legends Reference Pages If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb