councilman24

Beachbum, What you describe is essentially how I pack mine. The key is to pack it, stuff it, and pull it. If it's trying to pull one part of the PC past another it can bunch up at the mouth of the pocket. It's not necessarily older PC's that are more susceptible, it's larger and 0-3 cfm fabric PC's. ZP PC's are usually smaller and slicker, and sometimes the problem is keeping them in the pocket. Both of these manuals, Rigging Innovations and Jump Shack show the method I DON'T like but RI does only fold it to the length of the pouch. http://www.rigginginnovations.com/pdf/OwnersManual/tln2manl.pdf[/url] http://www.jumpshack.com/download/RacerOwnersManualMarch2001.PDF [url] I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

As to a cause... There are several ways of folding a PC. Some of them result in the part of the PC farthest in the pouch being pull past the rest of the PC. This can lead to it bunching up at the mouth. There are other ways of folding that don't do this. One folded the first way may work for 100's or 1000's of jumps and then wad up one time for a hard pull. Ask the guy who packed it to show you how he folds the PC. If the last thing he does is fold it in half from skirt to apex and stuffs the fold in the pouch, then this is the one that might bunch up. If he folds the PC in half first or second and then rolls or folds it up, it should be one of the methods that doesn't bunch up. The method shown here http://www.sunpath.com/ in the manual under rigging is one of the methods that don't bunch up. Can't find an example of the method that you shouldn't use. It's an older method. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

The fabric may actually be more than 3 cfm in just a few jumps AND pack jobs. Just packing a F-111 type fabric canopy increases the porosity. One of the reasons this effects the canopy so much is that the air leaking through the material disrupts the airflow over the airfoil of the canopy, decreasing lift. No F-111 type main is worth having the porosity tested. Time for something new! I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

bump I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

With less than one month till the registration fee goes up, and with Lisa's permission, I'd like to make a plug for the PIA International Parachute Symposium. More information and the registration form can be found at http://www.pia.com/ The Symposium runs from January 27th to the 31st, 2003 in Jacksonville, Florida. The Symposium is a descendant of the old Rigger's Conference last held in 1989 in Muskogee, OK. In 1991 the 1st International Parachute Symposium was sponsored by the PIA in Orlando. The last two, in 1999 and 2001 were held in San Diego and this is the first one on the east coast since 1995. The Symposium consists of five days including a trade show exposition and presentations on topics ranging from How to pack a Javelin to Sewing Machine Maintenance to Dropzone Management Software to High Performance Parachute Piloting. Past highlights have include Dave DeWolf's (Handsome Dave) rigging tips, John LeBlanc's series on piloting parachutes, PD's/PIA's Dual Square Report, Rags on Parachute Maintenance, Tom Sanders on aerial photography, and keynote speeches by Pres. George Bush, Joe Kittinger, and Theo Knacke. (Rumor, unconfirmed but more likely than the Jet, is that D-1 will be speaking at this symposium.) Other past presentors include Bill Booth, Sandy Reid, Derick Thomas, George Galloway, Manley Butler, Mike Fury, Ed Cummings, John Sherman, Ted Strong, Rusty Vest, B.J. Worth, Gary Peek, Allen Silver etc, etc, etc,. This is also a truly international event with attendees and presentors from Australia, throughout Europe, South America, and even Uzbekistan. Military organizations from the US and abroad have presented information. Why should you go? I'm a part time rigger and instructor. In 1989 I attended the last Rigger's Conference in order to try to learn more about rigging. The information that I learned then and at the symposia since (I've only missed one) has been invaluable. Things I've learned about include molar straps, tensile strength and acid mesh testing, patching without pins, the Cypres AAD, the tandem side spin problem, piano wire fingertrapping fids, and the list goes on. I've met and become friends with leaders in the industry. This is a place where you can get your questions answered by the people who made it, did it first, or do it best. PIA and the symposium is completely run by volunteers. I've helped plan and staff the last two and gave two presentations in 2001. Money raised goes to PIA to help fund activities like the dual square study, lobbying efforts with government to update the regulations and provide access to military contracts, and other ongoing projects that support both the industry and our customers, the jumpers. Money also is being set aside to fund a proposed American Museum of Sport Parachuting. Sorry for the length but if you've never been to a PIA symposium, especially if involved with rigging or instruction, you need to be there. If you've been to one before there's always something new, and if you've been to all of them, I'll see you there. And remember, they're skydiver parties! If you've got questions give me a shout. Terry Urban D-8631 PIA Affiliate member I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

With less than one month till the registration fee goes up, and with Lisa's permission, I'd like to make a plug for the PIA International Parachute Symposium. More information and the registration form can be found at http://www.pia.com/ The Symposium runs from January 27th to the 31st, 2003 in Jacksonville, Florida. The Symposium is a descendant of the old Rigger's Conference last held in 1989 in Muskogee, OK. In 1991 the 1st International Parachute Symposium was sponsored by the PIA in Orlando. The last two, in 1999 and 2001 were held in San Diego and this is the first one on the east coast since 1995. The Symposium consists of five days including a trade show exposition and presentations on topics ranging from How to pack a Javelin to Sewing Machine Maintenance to Dropzone Management Software to High Performance Parachute Piloting. Past highlights have include Dave DeWolf's (Handsome Dave) rigging tips, John LeBlanc's series on piloting parachutes, PD's/PIA's Dual Square Report, Rags on Parachute Maintenance, Tom Sanders on aerial photography, and keynote speeches by Pres. George Bush, Joe Kittinger, and Theo Knacke. (Rumor, unconfirmed but more likely than the Jet, is that D-1 will be speaking at this symposium.) Other past presentors include Bill Booth, Sandy Reid, Derick Thomas, George Galloway, Manley Butler, Mike Fury, Ed Cummings, John Sherman, Ted Strong, Rusty Vest, B.J. Worth, Gary Peek, Allen Silver etc, etc, etc,. This is also a truly international event with attendees and presentors from Australia, throughout Europe, South America, and even Uzbekistan. Military organizations from the US and abroad have presented information. Why should you go? I'm a part time rigger and instructor. In 1989 I attended the last Rigger's Conference in order to try to learn more about rigging. The information that I learned then and at the symposia since (I've only missed one) has been invaluable. Things I've learned about include molar straps, tensile strength and acid mesh testing, patching without pins, the Cypres AAD, the tandem side spin problem, piano wire fingertrapping fids, and the list goes on. I've met and become friends with leaders in the industry. This is a place where you can get your questions answered by the people who made it, did it first, or do it best. PIA and the symposium is completely run by volunteers. I've helped plan and staff the last two and gave two presentations in 2001. Money raised goes to PIA to help fund activities like the dual square study, lobbying efforts with government to update the regulations and provide access to military contracts, and other ongoing projects that support both the industry and our customers, the jumpers. Money also is being set aside to fund a proposed American Museum of Sport Parachuting. Sorry for the length but if you've never been to a PIA symposium, especially if involved with rigging or instruction, you need to be there. If you've been to one before there's always something new, and if you've been to all of them, I'll see you there. And remember, they're skydiver parties! If you've got questions give me a shout. Terry Urban D-8631 PIA Affiliate member I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

I can only give you the US perspective. Full assembly and inspection usually between two hours and three hours. The first pack job can take one and a half to four hours. These times can vary and not indicate a problem depending on the experience and diligence of the rigger.I usually split this into two evenings (I'm a part time rigger). I don't have any problem with anyone watching any part of this. Any rigger who doesn't want you to watch for some other reason than convenience you should steer away from. Some riggers charge more because they are having to do it at the convenience of the customer. Your rigger SHOULD be completely inspecting the gear even though it is new. He/she is the last quality control inspector. Major problems have been found in new gear (i.e. unstitched seams!) I often tell my customers that they are welcome to watch (and they are) but that they will get better service if they aren't watching. This is because I'm not distracted by their presenence and questions. One former girl friend promptly replied, "Then I'll just watch someone elses!" Have fun. Also ask an instructor about how to check out the flight characteristics of the main. You are the first and only test jumper for the main canopy. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Sorry, didn't realize that you were in the UK. Sunpath may very well have someone in UK/Europe that they authorize/recommend to do this work. Changing the main web between chest and hip rings will be easier than adjusting a standard harness. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Check with the manufacturer for how to measure yourself for their harness. Do the measurements. Then call them with the serial number of your harness and your measurements. They should be able to tell you if your harness is too big, and let you know if your harness can be resized and how much it will cost. Resizing harnesses is something fairly routine, but I suggest you have the manufacturer do it. If your harness is fairly new it will be worth the cost. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

What's to notice? No colors to fade. Since there are no colors to fade it will look better longer, if you don't get it dirty! I don't believe that the fabric longevity will be significantly different. But the dyes will fade in a colored canopy and the white will get dirty in a white canopy. Don't worry about UV, keep it out of the sun, and get what you want. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Can't help with specific values from this side of the pond but..... I'd start with new list price, multiply by .7 and take off 400 euros. Or find out what it would cost new to actually buy the gear new (not list) and take off 400 to 500 euros. This is based on dealer prices and markups in the U.S. Again, depending on care, desirability, popularity, etc. everything changes. There is a calculator for the value of the cypres at http://www.pia.com/SSK/cypres/ You need the date of manufacturer, the date of the last battery change, the cost of a new cypres, the cost of replacement batteries and the cost of four year service. Ellen Bussemaker (riggingchair@pia.com) is a rigger in the Netherlands that I know that may be of help, but your best bet are instructors or riggers in your area that know the local market and the gear your interested in. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Not only do the items you listed go into an evaluation of value but things like condition, area of the country, popularity, current or outdated equipment, desireability and marketability (like color, size, options, etc.). I recently bought a rig for $1300 that should have been worth $2000, but it wasn't a popular size harness or main. Ask at least three local instructors or riggers about their opinion. Then ask us. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

If you can beat him up, then your strong enough to be a rigger. Don't worry about it. I've got tired of pulling on my back so hard so now I have a ratchet closing aid that lets me tear a rig apart with two fingers. I wouldn't recommend this particular aid to inexperienced riggers. Without the finesse it's to easy to over do it. One particular aid I've seen demonstrated but haven't used is an adjustable strap with a gateless B-12 snap on it. This is put over the head over one shoulder and hooked to the pull up cord. This way your using your whole back. Many (most?) riggers at least use some kind of handle on the pull up rather than tearing up their hands. If you want to learn all the tips and get a good idea of rigging, try to get to the PIA International Parachute Syposium in Jacksonville in January. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

What are you worried about? You didn't hear flatline. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

You should pick the size reserve you need, then determine which size container to get. The 254 lb statement in the PD literature is the maximum allowed by LAW under the testing system used for the approval of the reserve by the FAA. Notice that ALL PD reserves 126 and bigger have a max of 254. That's because they were all tested under the same standard. The 176 lb is the PD recommendation for appropriate performance. A lot of people push these limits and get away with it but its not a good idea. If you weigh 190 lbs under canopy you'll weigh 215 to 220. I'd stick with at least the 160. No offense but 251 jumps is not a lot of landings. "A lot of flare" is relative. Try to find a 190 sq ft non zp nine cell or if you can a 7 cell and jump it. You'll quickly see that a lot of reserve flare is nothing like zp elliptical. Relearn/remember how to do a PLF. Rhino's comment about two out is appropriate but at least that is something you may be able to fix (or may not depending.) But how many times do you expect to have two out versus use your reserve? I know for some that a silly question. Anyway, don't scrimp on reserve size just to be cool. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

I can't remember. I don't think it was anybody still in business. Anybody older than me rember? Or have their Poynter's handy? I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Also http://www.aerostore.com/ but Para-Gear will have almost everything you need. I don't think the unscrewable bodkins are available anymore. Call the Jumpshack. If anyone knows they would. If your using aluminum finger trapping bodkins you need to go to the PIA International Parachute Symposium in Jacksonville this January. One of the best things I ever learned there (years ago) was how to use piano wire and a dowel rod for finger traping. Also the best tension device I've ever seen is made by Allen Silver for the military. I bought one he had at the symposium at a discount. Last I knew I think he was selling them to the military for between $300 and $400. An axel on a frame with a ratchet and a wrench socket. I can rip any rig apart with it and it fits on the pilot chute cap. Also I think it was Sandy Reid that was selling the Y shaped closing plate/packing paddle, but I'm not sure. Might try contacting Rigging Inovations. It is handy for Javelins and clones. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

How the heck do they have enough time to stow something! They're only in the air 30 seconds. Worst idea.... GreenStar Track II aka Death Star. I think I got the name right. Reserve riser sewn into shoulder junction and no confluence wrap. Open reserve head down and watch the reserve risers peel the harness apart. The field fix was to add a confluence wrap. My first instructor in 1978 jumped one of these. One of the few harness designs that actually came apart in use. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Also recognize that there are various people producing volume numbers that may or may not be relative to the PIA test method and it's results. Jump Shack has a different testing apparatus, George Galloway uses it differently, and it greatly depends on the operator. We just had a discussion last weekeend on trying to modify the PIA test method to one less subjective and more acceptable to the industry. Determining container volumes are subjective also. The BEST way (agreed by all at the PIA meeting) of determining if a particular reserve will fit in particular container size is to call the container manufacturer or talk to an experienced rigger who services similar systems. The "real world" of try it to find out if it fits is right now the only way to be sure. If you try to use Precesion's number, PD's number, and a container volume you may or may not end up with a system that fits. PIA is trying to address this in their technical committee. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Terminal velocity... cheesey Charile Sheen, but the body was dead before pushed out.... Oh sh** nevermind Red Bull commercial. Loss of altitude awareness. These idiots should have a cypres. Hmmmmm. I really don't need to see cartoons bounce, let alone simulated people in movies. To many memories when you've seen it happen for real. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

In the early 1980's they were still selling PC's. The last version that I know of was know as an RW PC and was made out of F-111 instead of 1.5 oz fabric. Seems that it might have had smaller lines also. This was small enough to put in a bag and put in a large piggy back rig of the time. If you can find a rig big enough, there is no need for it to be on capewell risers as stated above. It's just that most rigs designed for the PC did have capewell hardware. My first rig, which I still have, was a Security Crossbow container and Crossbow reserve with a Competition Paracommander (PC for those thinking we're jumping pilot chutes) in a sleeve with a PC pilot chute. This rig was last jumped about 1988 but is still airworthy. Right now it has a 24' T-10 reserve . I pull it out to show the newbies what a 50 lb rig looks like. And I make anybody I'm helping with a rigger rating pack it. The rig is a piggy back rig but the reserve container is essentially a chest mount reserve mount on the back. BTW the Crossbow reserve was essentially a 26' lopo, not a high performace round like the Crossbow main. The Crossbow reserve I have set up on three ring risers for people who want to jump a round. It fits in most medium modern containers. A couple of jumpers have rigs set up with PC's but few takers. We average two or three PC jumps a year at my small DZ. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

I have a couple of customers that have had soft links for probably 10 years now. I know one has had the same set for about 5 years. I keep inspecting them and so far they're still holding up. 1000 lb dacron. The lines seem to be taking more wear than the link (500 microline). I was not convinced so I never tried to intall any home made one myself. Commercial removable ones now make them independent of the rigger skill and design. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

What may work better and I've used is the "backers" for POP rivets. They're thicker and don't bend. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

What's really cool are the ones I have taken during surgery with the clamps and positioning needles in place. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Those aren't extras to me. That's part of the service I provide. When ever I get a rig I haven't seen before or for a couple of years there's always something that needs work. Toggle velcro, bridle velcro, worn out spandex, damaged risers, worn steering lines. Minor things I do as part of the inspection and repack for long term, faithful customers. I have some customers that bring their rig to my once every year or two just to have some one picky look at it. I've seen both PC handles and main PINS held on by a few loose threads. These are things that you either need to inspect yourself, ask if your rigger inspects them, or pay him to. No offense, but it amazes me that people can pack their mains and not realize that their main pin or hacky handle is ready to fall off. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE