councilman24

I don't really think that Dave's to blame, but we can blame him anyway. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

At least he knew where you were when he was diving past.

I know! We'll blame it on Dave DeWolf! I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

My "Rigging Course" took 3 years. Packed and studied some. Took the written. And about 22 months later took the oral and practical. An FAA examiner came to the DZ and the DZO, my instructor, wasn't in a hurry to have the FAA visit. Still don't understand why you need to have the pack jobs done to take the written. You don't have to have the hours to take the Private Pilot written. I don't think. Oh, well. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Called who? It's commercial testing centers now, right? You can tell I haven't went through this stuff in awhile. The only reason I got around to taking my practical, from a FAA employee who didn't have a clue what a square was, was that the two year expiration on my written was about to run out. The testing is determined by the administrator so I guess than do what they want. Hmmm, I thought that some of the people going to courses actually took the written before going. Is scoring instant now? I embassed! I should know this stuff. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

I just hope they don't start monitoring! I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Living in MI my jumping is mainly seasonal. At the beginning of the season it doesn't take much to get me motion sick. I get motion sick pretty easily anyway. Later in the year I can get by ok. But hard, long spins I usually save for the last jump of the day because they'll make me queazy. Meclizine HCl (trade name Bonine) solve it for me for anything. I don't take it all the time but early on, jumping on bigger plane where I can't see out a window, etc. I take it just so I don't have to worry. Once a day and I've never had any side effects. But try it out before jumping while taking anything. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Did a little looking. 8610-2 is the final application for the certificate and requires the pack jobs. But I couldn't find a different form to allow written testing. ??? I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

You sure? When I got mine 20 years ago you had to have an endorsement by a rigger that you had been instructed in the various aspects of rigging. My teacher wrote in my log book, "Mr. Urban has been given instruction on the FAR's, Packing, Maintainence, Construction, and Materials pertaining to the duties of a Senior Parachute Rigger and has demonstrated the knowledge and ability to perform the work associated with parachute rigging. I consider him qualified to take the written exam for parachute rigging. (signature)" Then I took the written, at that time at the FIDO. Later, he wrote a statement that I had packed the log parachute under his supervision etc. etc. Then took the practical. Things may have changed with but I don't think you need the pack jobs, but you do need an endorsement in your log. I haven't went and read the latest FAR or forms so this is just my twenty year old experience. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Ok, lets get opinions on the preferred style of dive loops. Loops on back, loops on front so you are actually grabbing your riser and the loop keeps you hand in place, loops on the back that make a 90 degree turn to help keep them open, and all of the other options. One customer who doesn't do high speed swoops but lands his sabre out of at least a 180 most of the time swears by 1 1/2 or 2 inch rings welded steel ring threaded on his steel links. They work like dive blocks. I don't like them much but it illustrates the range of things used. What's your favorite? Material, stitch pattern, placement. (I know what I like.) I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Actually I consider this a "normal" opening. These newer canopies that are 700' streamers that eventually open are really malfunctions. Of course I'm an inch shorter than I was when I started jumping in 1978. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Winsor, So how many did you buy as your latest and greatest, used or new, and how many did you assemble later? I still have most of the gear I've ever bought to jump. I don't have a conventional rig that I bought to jump but have various pieces I've bought for fun over the years. My first rig, a Security Crossbow harness, reserve, and PC main with ParaCommander pilot chute is still essentially airworthy. My second rig, one of the mid seventies, USA team Super Swooper Tandem prototypes (first model of the Racer for the youngsters reading) and a StratoCloud has been retired. Currently, the newest is a 1998 Reflex, plus a Vector II back up rig and Vector II CRW rig. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Actually it was the Belgian army that did the some of the studies on packing surface effect, as well as porosity changes due simply to packing. They presented the data at one of the PIA symposiums, 1997 I think. Hmmm, maybe 1993. Their testing on surfaces consisted of dragging weighted fabric across different surfaces. I don't remember whether the testing was porosity, tensile strength, tear strength or a combination. The Loser, a worn poly tarp, like at your local bogie. The fibers stick up and "tear" into the material like a very stiff brush. The Winner (least damage) was a commercial smooth finished concrete, like you might find on a factory floor, not a sidewalk. Porosity changes were seen after just a few pack jobs. Many of you have indicated trust in your rigger. We appreciate it but recognize that very few independent riggers or lofts have the capability of porosity testing. We can only guess at the changes. As Hook talked about, in extreme cases like Javelin PC's it's easy to see the changes in the weave. In canopies the changes are much more subtle. Why does it matter and why are reserve held to higher standards than non ZP mains? It's your LAST CHANCE TO LIVE! It speaks alot that reserves don't often blow up if not overloaded. But with the current trends in gear more and more people are wearing smaller reserves and going faster. It better be in the best shape that it can be. The industry tried to suggest a 10 year service life 10-15 years ago. That went over like a lead brick in the U.S. Recent discussions at PIA rigging and technical committee meetings have concluded that there are so many variables in gear usage and storage that any mandated service life could not necessarily be supported. Many (all?) manufacturers will quote a manditory service lifes when bidding on military contracts or selling to similar users. These, according to some of the manufacturers, are really based on the desires of the customers and the contract, versus any real data or need to take component out of service. Many other countries or users impose manditory lifetimes. But don't look for it to become widespread or manditory in the U.S. sport industry in the near future. About the rounds mentioned above. They started at 80 to 120 cfm, or 40 to 60 cfm, versus 0 to 3 cfm for new F-111 type fabric. F-111 is no longer made. The oldest sport reserve I current work on is 1989. (I've got a couple of older pilot rigs.) This is mainly a matter of changes in design and evolution of gear versus taking reserves out of service. The obsolesence of the entire rig gets it put in the closet. About 4 years ago I was still packing a 1981 5 cell Swift. I didn't much want to but didn't have a good reason to retire it. The jumper (a 1970's world champion) finally retired from jumping, partly based on not wanting to invest in new gear at this time. So, by the time you don't want to jump the reserve (based on age, not usage), your likely to want to jump newer gear anyway. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

I'd think about painting it to keep the sweety harness from rusting the pipe. Only real concern. I'm assuming your hanging them from the harness at the shoulders. The USAF Academy has over 400 rigs stored this way. About 10 year old Talons. Stop worrying. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Rob and Ryan's post illustrate why this isn't a simple issue and why PIA member's, let alone the 99% of rigger's who aren't PIA members, don't agree. Many of us are not so concerned about the reserve working properly if stored appropriately, but the rest of the rig that many, and maybe, most jumpers don't inspect or have maintained. My customers who make the most jumps care the least about they're gear. And since much student gear isn't limited to student use and gear normally used by experienced jumpers is often use for students, having differing pack cycles would be difficult to enforce and also cause logistics problems for rigs rented to nominal "students" as well as experienced personnell. Since training is now unregulated the FAA would now become entangled in the definition of student. These are all examples of the complexity of opinions and possible outcomes as we try to move forward with 180 or longer inspection cycle. There is no concensus, there is no easy solution to the concerns of those hesitant to extend the cycle, and there is no guarentee that either PIA, USPA or any other group in the U.S. can put together the appropriate documentation with supportive data to answer all the likely objections raised during a period of comment on a proposed FAA rule change. (Whew, long sentence.) For those who think it's easy, please petition the FAA. Anyone can. Meanwhile, PIA, and maybe USPA, will try to collect and put together the appropriate case. Thanks for your comments. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Actually I did attend that. I was thinking I saw it once after I had been using it for years and years but I couldn't remember where or who it would have been. But now I remember the Aviator demo. I think I mentioned before that the first place I saw it written was in a circa 1981 Northern Lite manual from paraphernalia. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

It can get by, and probably will. But I'd rather scare 'em into not doing it. The real winner was the guy that ran the RSL lanyard through the big ring before he attached it. Again, it might (probably?) would have cleared but not very bright. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

DON'T, as I've seen about 3 or 4 times over the years, connect it to the harness ring of the three ring! This will keep your main from leaving. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

I've been trying to remember. In the 7 rigger conferences and PIA symposiums (all symposiums but one) I've attended, I don't think I've seen the "ProStack" demo'd. I've now gotten to the point where my over the shoulder, lay it down and straighten it out is neater, hmmmm and maybe faster, depending on what else I have to do with the rig. What ever is most comfortable for the rigger is right. Like I said, it took several years for me to feel comfortable with doing reserves over the shoulder after I started packing mains that way. For the non riggers reading this, pro packing a reserve over the shoulder is much more involved than packing a main. Laying it on the floor is really just the beginning, not the end. I suggest that all jumpers watch at least one reserve pack job. I tell my customers they are always welcome to watch, but I actually probably do better without them watching because I'm not distracted. One customer (and ex-girl friend) immediately responded "I'll just watch you do someone else's." If your rigger has maintained a good reputation don't worry about the details of how they accomplish the final goal. What you should worry about is whether your rigger (AND YOU!) are treating your rig and reserve as your last chance to live. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Here is the link to the MSDS (material safety data sheet) for the 3M cleaner. http://www.ppgautoglass.com/msds/pdf/10-5933-6.pdf Note that it is about half naptha, or low molecular weight hydrocarbons, and half xylene, a chemical relative of benzene. Goo Gone used to list xylol, another name for xylene as its major ingredient. They no longer list the ingredients. All are essentially the same as lighter fluid. At the hardware store by Xylol or Xylene in the solvent section. About a 10th the price of Goo Gone and similar results. And no citrus stink. I'd use it on a container but not on a harness because of no specific knowledge of long term effects. No need to wash or soak container after any of these products. They're volitile and will evaporate away. Don't breath a lot and don't use near a flame source. Terry Professional Chemist. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

I doubt that these days it's "common". With most everybody including riggers propacking these days, we, at least I, now feel more comfortagle do a stand up propack and then redressing it on the ground. I started using what you call the Prostack in the middle 80's when Paraphernalia published it for the Norther Lite. I used it for a long time for greater control. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

There is a method of packing that essentially results in a propack starting on the floor like a flat pack. You split the sides of the canopy as you pick up each line group. As for any particular pack job opening faster, ask to see the drop test data. There's a lot of rumor, opinion, and legend in skydiving that's presented as fact. The industry doesn't even know the opening times of reserve canopies at the end of pack cycles. All of the TSO testing is done on relatively fresh pack jobs. Some manufacturers are just now collecting data on end of pack cycle performance... A multi year project. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

With a few hundred round jumps and three round reserve landings (only reserves rides I've had that got to the ground) I kinda miss the peace and quiet. Open a round and almost no wind noise, not much worry about other rounds running into you, no having to show off in the air, and more importantly no hook turn fatalities. Hmmm ROUNDS FOREVER!. Of course the sprained ankles and broken legs, tree landings, water landings weren't so much fun. And of course you really had to know how to spot, more than the right side of the airport. Haven't jumped a round since 1986, after I busted up my leg (NOT round related) and got too fat to want to land my PC. But it's all packed up. One of these days I need to take up one of my pilot customers and jump their Preserve V. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

Some of this I know, and most I could find out. But I want to ask here to fill in some blanks and reinforce what I think is true. Don't need the U.S.A., that I know. Please give your details on your countries inspection and repack cycle for skydiving reserves and pilot emergency rigs. Also, if this is the original cycle or if it has changed at some time. If it changed, who initiated the change and what data was used to support it. Also I would like to know your countries governing body, and how to contact them. Just trying to fill in some PIA rigging committee data. Thanks for any help. Thanks for your help. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE

When I had 800 jumps I shattered my ankle. I jumped about 8 months later, still in a brace. While I was still in a cast I had ordered a Raven 4. (this is 1987) I jumped that for awhile but wanted something softer landing. I couldn't take a running step so if I had any speed left I had to slide on my butt. I bought a Manta. Then I had a screw taken out and could run (a little) again. So I bought a Sabre 190 for a second rig. When I wanted to ensure a soft landing, I grabbed the Sabre. The difference between landing a normal size ZP and an oversize non ZP canopy is huge. The Sabre had enough "flare power" to put me down soft. Where my own not ragged out Manta couldn't be trusted. Sooo... If you can't jump your Sabre, you probably shouldn't try to jump something else just because it's bigger. That aside, if every hurt skydiver waited until their doctor told them they could skydive, a lot of them never would be again. If you stupid or horny for a jump like alot of us, go ahead. If your doctor has ACTUALLY said you can jump again, you might want to wait for his time frame. But don't think that student main is going to guarentee a soft landing. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE